Relay arm, anyone ever remove it?

[BumbleDB]

WIth 34K miles and a shot rear tire, I figured it was time to grease the rear swing arm and components.

I had done this on the fz1 with little difficulty about a year ago, and found it to be in real need of lube

with only ~24K on the clock.

So, after much work, I get the swing arm off and try to pull the relay arm. Crap, can't pull the bolt out

without removing the center stand. Hmmm.... Do I really need to do this? Better check the relay arm

bearings. Crap, the grease has literally turned into rubber. Really... I'm not making this up. I've never

seen grease turn into what this has. Maybe it's some kind of new lube I've never heard of? I've seen

old grease get hard, but this is really.... like rubber packed in between the needle bearings.

The yammi manual shows regular grease!

Okay, so I rig up the bike on my engine hoist and raise it off the center stand. Go to remove the center

stand, and CRAP!!!! You cannot remove the 2 of the bolts unless you remove the exhaust. I did not say

cans, I said exhaust! If yammi had put those two bolts in the other way, no problem.

Sooooo...... unless someone can tell me how to get the relay arm out without removing the complete

exhaust, one of the relay arm bearings will be left to turn to dust. Just so you don't have to reference the

manual, the relay arm is the aluminum 3 point connector from the lower shock to the frame.

Took a break and went out to be sure that I'm not missing something, got the bright idea that I might

be able to swing the center stand braces out of the way, but that's a no go too.

Someone has to have done this before.

Any good ideas?

 

[v65]

This is a pretty well known issue, it's off the with exhaust. That's what winter is for.

 

[kaitsdad]

FJRTech.net pivot lube

Does this help?

 

[BumbleDB]

Year round riding where I live. I have two bikes, so one can be down for a while without

interruption to my happiness.

FjrTech says you can flex the exhaust, so I went out and tried that. I see the pics

where he got his out, but mine doesn't want to bend anywhere near enough.

Maybe I missed some mount bolts somewhere.

I'll go spend some time with it and see what I can do.

Not like I've never had this thing apart, but I really don't want to pull the exhaust

just for a bearing pack on a shock relay.

If I can't get it out, I'll leave that one bearing to rot and deal with it when the exhaust has

to come off or the bearing is cooked. Thanks for the replies!

And a big thanks to Yammi for not putting the lower two bolts in the other way!

That would have made it too easy.

UPDATE:

FjrTech is correct. On the left side exhaust mount at the center stand, there is a

piece welded on that I was catching on. I had to bend that down, then really flex

the exhaust. I will put them back in with the nut on the outside, so I won't have

to fight with it next time. Phew.... I wouldn't have minded skipping that bearing

if the grease on the other bearings were in better shape.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[madmike2]

And a big thanks to Yammi for not putting the lower two bolts in the other way!That would have made it too easy.

IIRC, a couple of owners have used a hacksaw and cut the bolts ( I seem to remember reading they used a "1/2" hacksaw and it was tight, but cutting just inside the "backed off" the nut allows easy removal) . Simply buy new ones at a hardware store and replace them facing the "other" direction.

 

[Zorlac]

Hacksaw?

That's what high speed cutting wheels are for, that bolt be toast.

 

[FuzzyRider]

Dremels and grinders...any problem can be solved with them! :devil:

 

[fjrinbc]

I was very reluctant to bend my exhaust out of the way - it just seemed too brutal. I loosened the offending bolts/nuts a few turns and then pulled out my reciprocating saw (looks like a big drill with a saw blade stickin' out the end) and sawed off the bolt heads. I replaced them with some SS bolts and nylock-type nuts from Homo Depot.

BTW - that semi-hard stuff in the needle bearings appears to be some sort of plastic. It was pretty much falling out of mine anyway, so I picked the remainder out and re-greased.

 

[Geezer]

BTW - that semi-hard stuff in the needle bearings appears to be some sort of plastic. It was pretty much falling out of mine anyway, so I picked the remainder out and re-greased.

Hmmm, that doesn't sound right. I think Radman had some sort of explaination about the stuff in those bearings. If the 'plastic stuff' was coming out you should order up a new set of bearings so you'll have them on hand just in case. The bearings and seals are not expensive.

 

[BumbleDB]

BTW - that semi-hard stuff in the needle bearings appears to be some sort of plastic. It was pretty much falling out of mine anyway, so I picked the remainder out and re-greased.

Hmmm, that doesn't sound right. I think Radman had some sort of explaination about the stuff in those bearings. If the 'plastic stuff' was coming out you should order up a new set of bearings so you'll have them on hand just in case. The bearings and seals are not expensive.

If this was a true rotation bearing, then I MIGHT worrry about it. But, it's just a limited movement, so a repack should be good. The needle bearings are not loose,

and whatever came out was not a cage of any type. It did not maintain any space between the bearings, they were touching on all sides and surfaces. I might believe

that it was some kind of special waterproof stuff that got old, but the yammi shop manual shows to use regular lithium grease on 'em.

My fz1 has pretty much an identical setup, and those were repacked the same way over a year ago. No failure yet....

Disclaimer: What the hell do I know?

I would be interested to see the Radman explanation. But, if for some odd reason they should fail, worst case my ass end goes stiff. Shouldn't kill me......... Hard tail, baby!

 

[phroenips]

Arise...ARISE from the dead, oh you ancient thread!!!

Ok, I screwed up, and I need to know how bad it is (which has a direct correlation to how much it's going to cost).

So, I was going through Bounce's swingarm service procedure on fjr-tips.org, and came to the bearing in the lower relay arm. I noticed the above-described "plastic" material and I thought it was some really funky grease that went horribly wrong. Ok, no problem, I've got kerosene that can clean that up!

Oh, it cleaned it up alright...and the bearings subsequently started falling out.

Picture proof (apparently my camera doesn't do a great job with macros):



click thumbnail for full size image



click thumbnail for full size image



click thumbnail for full size image

Now my problem. I can't get the bearing out. I even tried taking a socket of appropriate size (I think it was a 16 or 17mm) to use it as a sort of "punch" to evenly apply on the outside of the bearing and took a mallet to it. Didn't budge. Even if I did get it out somehow, if it's that lodged in there, how would I get a new one in? Help please?

 

[HaulinAshe]

Now that you have hammered the bearing, you ARE going to buy a new one.

Heat the aluminum with a heat gun or torch to roughly 250F. That's just hot enough to make water sizzle. Keep it below 300F and heat the aluminum QUICKLY without allowing time for the heat to transfer to the bearing's outer sleeve. You can lay a wet rag across the other areas of the casting to help protect them from heat.

Use a larger diameter socket as a female "receiver" on one side of the casting. Use your "driver" socket on the opposite side. Now clamp the entire thing in a good vise and crank like hell. (In a hurry before the heat transfers to the bearing sleeve.) It WILL come out.

Alternatively, you can use a real shop press and probably do the job without heat.

P.S. Make damn sure you keep the inner sleeves inside the other good bearings while all this is going on. Or you may be picking up more of those precious plastic pieces that look like grease and buying a lot of new bearings.

 

[BumbleDB]

Ha, ha... saw this thread and thought that somebody was talking about removing some

useless part. When I clicked it, boy was I surprised to see I started it.

Seems like a hundred years ago......

 

[dcarver]

Truly PITA engineering and resultant threads truly deserve long life.

My relay lower pivot resulted in me riding 500 miles home with missing needles but very well packed with grease.

I suppose that if this is the worst thing about an FJR we're pretty lucky, overall.

 

[slo-ride]

My bike just hit the 16K mark so I'm taking it in to have the swing arm pivot bearing and steering bearing serviced. I just don't have the time or patience nor the right tools to do the job myself.

 

[phroenips]

Now that you have hammered the bearing, you ARE going to buy a new one.

Heat the aluminum with a heat gun or torch to roughly 250F. That's just hot enough to make water sizzle. Keep it below 300F and heat the aluminum QUICKLY without allowing time for the heat to transfer to the bearing's outer sleeve. You can lay a wet rag across the other areas of the casting to help protect them from heat.

Use a larger diameter socket as a female "receiver" on one side of the casting. Use your "driver" socket on the opposite side. Now clamp the entire thing in a good vise and crank like hell. (In a hurry before the heat transfers to the bearing sleeve.) It WILL come out.

Alternatively, you can use a real shop press and probably do the job without heat.

P.S. Make damn sure you keep the inner sleeves inside the other good bearings while all this is going on. Or you may be picking up more of those precious plastic pieces that look like grease and buying a lot of new bearings.

Thanks for the reply. When I originally asked the question, the relay arm was still on the bike, so to do either the, err, "unofficial" method or doing it properly with a shop press would require taking it off. Which of course meant taking the centerstand off, which of course meant taking the exhaust off, etc. ugh. So, that's what I spent yesterday doing. fun! I'm going to take it to Napa or my motorcycle shop to have it done.

My bike just hit the 16K mark so I'm taking it in to have the swing arm pivot bearing and steering bearing serviced. I just don't have the time or patience nor the right tools to do the job myself.

my problem is that I don't trust my local shop. I reluctantly just had them do the valves and when I asked what the specs were at "oh, they were right in the middle...dead on!" And we had really crappy weather this weekend too, so fortunately I didn't miss out on any riding either

 

[Patriot]

my first thought was the pivoting aluminum arm that holds and the windshield moves on

same issue with bolt installed from head on inside out with nut on end...removing it was impossible hitting the instrument panel

dremel rocks

story:

On a PGR mission, it's not unusual for it to be mandatory to park all the bikes out of the way off a road in grass, gravel, or uneven ground.

I parked off the road in a rolling uneven field next to the only hedge(grow) withing 100 yards. I was very tired and as I went to mount after the funeral,

the bike, standing straight up from the uneven ground, fell to the right into the hedge :angry: which grabbed on and wouldn't let go of the windshield.

Picking it up took five strong men and it flexed the windshield lots to the right breaking the left arm.

Thankfully the part was available for under $25 and it was easy to fix (no nose unit removal) once I dremeled off the bolt head...installed that one "backwards" compared to the right one

 

[Patriot]

My bike just hit the 16K mark so I'm taking it in to have the swing arm pivot bearing and steering bearing serviced. I just don't have the time or patience nor the right tools to do the job myself.

do realize Ma Yammy makes tons of $$$ on service...their maintenance schedule should be taken as a grain of salt

my '04 Gen I didn't have the suspension pivots serviced till 93k miles and only because I had my independent shop replace the shock with one I provided

lately, I've had to WD40 the brake pivot twice when it was sticking just enough to occassionally keep the brake lights on

now at 128k miles, I bringing it in to my shop with a Sasquatch rebuilt shock, replacement of the middle exhaust mounts that bolt to the centerstand, and first valve check at 45k.

I think I might have them replace the Cam Chain Tensioner with the new and improved part which is another story of recommended maintenance.

YMMV

 

[Fred W]

Now my problem. I can't get the bearing out. I even tried taking a socket of appropriate size (I think it was a 16 or 17mm) to use it as a sort of "punch" to evenly apply on the outside of the bearing and took a mallet to it. Didn't budge. Even if I did get it out somehow, if it's that lodged in there, how would I get a new one in? Help please?

I'm not understanding the problem here.

First off, why do you need to get the bearing out? Looking at the pictures, even in their expanded large-ness reveals nothing alarming. You mentioned that you lost some of the needles. You can buy a new bearing and just stuff some of the new needles into the old outer race (that's actually the piece that you are trying to remove) with liberal quantities of grease to hold 'em in place during reassembly.

Unless you mangled that outer race by hammering it with a socket, I think you'll be OK with less drastic measures than replacement. In the event that you actually do need to replace that race you'll want to heat the arm and use a real by-gawd press to get that out of there and likewise to re-install a new one. But I seriously doubt that is required.

This is just a suspension pivot.It s not subject to either high rpm rotation or very heavy loading.

PS - those plastic things that look like congealed grease are completely expendable. I'm fairly certain that it is only there to keep the needles in place when it is on the parts shelf and without an inner race to keep them captive. Just use some real grease to hold the needles in place for assembly and worry no more.