Seeking Help Adjusting Suspension

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Jon T

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I recently bought a 2004 FJR1300A. I'd like to experiment a little with adjusting the suspension, but after reading the manual, I'm not quite sure what the "real life" affects of the various adjustments will be. I don't have the manual in front of me, but I recall there being 2 types of adjustments for the front forks, an adjustment for the rear, plus the sliding adjustment under the seat (soft/firm).

I'm 170 lbs. Most of my riding is tame commuting, so that would be my "default". Any guidance on where I might want to start? What things would I change on the days I wanted to head to the hills and be a bit more sporty? When going 2-up (wife is 140 lbs), is moving the lever from soft to firm usually enough? If not, what other adjustments would you recommend?

Thanks.

 
I found these links here:

"FJR Forum > FJR Technical Forums > FAQs and Common Historical Info",

on this page: "Let's Fill This Section Up, Links and reference archives ahoy..."

One suspension set-up page. And another.

but I recall there being 2 types of adjustments for the front forks, an adjustment for the rear, plus the sliding adjustment under the seat (soft/firm).
Okay, as simple as I can...(Owners Manual, section 3, pg. 15 & 16):

Forks: 3 adjustments.

Preload..adding or subtracting spring tension to the forks..by turning the 17mm Hex nut (The one immediately under the black knob) on the top of each fork, measured by the lines showing on the sides. The less lines, the more preload.

Rebound damping...(Black knob, top of forks) adjusts the ease or speed which the front forks "extend" or recover after braking or hitting a bump

Compression damping...(screww facing rearward @ bottom of fork tube) adjusts the ease or difficulty of the front forks "squeezing down" when braking or the ease at which the forks absorb a bump/pothole.

Rear shock: 2 adjustments

Preload..adding or subtracting spring pressure/ability to carry weight. Yes, flip the lever to "hard" when carrying a passenger or having the luggage loaded. (Some people continually on the "hard" setting)

Rebound...Turning the knurled ring clockwise inreases damping, or makes the shock stiffer when hitting bumps or potholes.

The desires and results will vary depending on rider "desired feel", rider weight, passenger weight, etc. The best thing to do is to set everything in "standard" according to the manual, then increase or decrease each one and see how they "feel" to you. Some of us want very responsive suspension so we have ours set on the "stiff" more "more damped" settings. Some of us have replaced our rear shocks and front springs (and valving). Some of us want a more "touring" and softer ride and have the settings on standard or even turned back a click or two.

There is no easy answer. You will have to "play" with it and determine what you (and your passenger) want. If you commute, you can adjust it and drive it for a couple of days to see how it feels. If you want to go to a remote winding road, you can run up and down the road, then adust each knob/screw a couple of clicks, then run the road again to "feel" differrences.

Welcome to the JOY of Sport Touring! :yahoo:

 
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Rear shock: 2 adjustments Preload..adding or subtracting spring pressure/ability to carry weight. Yes, flip the lever to "hard" when carrying a passenger or having the luggage loaded. (Some people continually on the "hard" setting)

Rebound...Turning the knurled ring clockwise inreases damping, or makes the shock stiffer when hitting bumps or potholes.
The FJR rear shock does not have a spring preload adjuster. It is actually a spring rate selector lever since the shock has two springs on it. With the selector set in the "Soft" position, both springs are being used in series. With the selector in the "hard" position, the single long spring on the shock is being used and the shorter stiff spring is locked out and not in use.

 
I'll add some to Mike's reply:

Springs in suspension control the overall amount of energy that can be absorbed. Dampening adjusters control the rate at which that energy is absorbed (compression) and released (rebound).

Springs come first in my book, and should be adjusted so that you get the desired amount of "sag". This is a measurement of how much the bike settles whn you sit on it versus when it's sitting on its own (simplified answer). The more you preload that spring, the less it will settle when you sit on it. Thi is kind of bad, because you want the suspension to be at least partially into its stroke to allow ample movement in both directions. There is tons of information on how much sag for what application, I leave that to the individual, but on my 06, with my 185# but on it, the front forks are adjusted to the first full line below the cap. That means almost fully pre-loaded.

Ok, now for me comes compression damping. The more you turn the "clicker" in, the harder those concrete joints in the road and bridge gaps are going to jar your hands. So turn that puppie out until the roads you ride on feel smooth. You can always change it if you need to out on the road. I thought I was pretty happy with mine until just recently I turned the clickers out one more. Like BUTTAH!

Rebound for me is a tricky one. You don't want it too stiff, then the wheel won't get back on the road fast enough, and if you hit another bump, it will feel pretty harsh. There's a phenomenon called "packing" (mostly in dirt bikes) where successive bumps continue to compress the rear suspension, but the rebound is so damped that it doesn't release, resulting in reduced wheel travel. Kind of like the back end is squatting down on itself.

Up front, it's a whole other feeling. I know it's too little damping when the suspension bounces back on me. You hit a bump, feel the compression, and then boing! it feels like it shot back higher than it started. I'll take rebound a click at a time until it feels best.

Hope this helps.

 
Which adjustment do you use to keep the bike from diving so much upon hard braking???
Assuming that you have used preload to set the sag and have the correct springs in the forks, then fork oil height can be used to control fork dive. More oil in the forks decreases the air space which will then compress at an increasing rate as the fork dives and can provide up to 25 percent of the resistance at the end of the stroke.

 
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Which adjustment do you use to keep the bike from diving so much upon hard braking???
Assuming that you have used preload to set the sag and have the correct springs in the forks, then fork oil height can be used to control fork dive. More oil in the forks decreases the air space which will then compress at an increasing rate as the fork dives and can provide up to 25 percent of the resistance at the end of the stroke.
That's as good a tip a any. The lesser amount of air will compress to a point of resistance more quickly and act as a spring helper, but you won't get the full effect until very late in the suspension travel.

You certianly don't want to load your spring enough to compensate for this, and no, more oil isn't necessarily always better, but it can help.

Another thing you might consider is reducing the rate of suspension compression by taking better advantage of your rear brake. Using the rear will help slow the bike down with much less dive. It doesn't give a ton of braking force, but it can help keep the bike's pitch attitude flatter for longer on the approach to the corner.

Trouble with this "traditional" fork set up is that the weight transfer on aggressive front braking has nowhere else to go.

 
I'll add some to Mike's reply:
Springs in suspension control the overall amount of energy that can be absorbed. Dampening adjusters control the rate at which that energy is absorbed (compression) and released (rebound).

Springs come first in my book, and should be adjusted so that you get the desired amount of "sag". This is a measurement of how much the bike settles whn you sit on it versus when it's sitting on its own (simplified answer). The more you preload that spring, the less it will settle when you sit on it. Thi is kind of bad, because you want the suspension to be at least partially into its stroke to allow ample movement in both directions. There is tons of information on how much sag for what application, I leave that to the individual, but on my 06, with my 185# but on it, the front forks are adjusted to the first full line below the cap. That means almost fully pre-loaded.

Ok, now for me comes compression damping. The more you turn the "clicker" in, the harder those concrete joints in the road and bridge gaps are going to jar your hands. So turn that puppie out until the roads you ride on feel smooth. You can always change it if you need to out on the road. I thought I was pretty happy with mine until just recently I turned the clickers out one more. Like BUTTAH!

Rebound for me is a tricky one. You don't want it too stiff, then the wheel won't get back on the road fast enough, and if you hit another bump, it will feel pretty harsh. There's a phenomenon called "packing" (mostly in dirt bikes) where successive bumps continue to compress the rear suspension, but the rebound is so damped that it doesn't release, resulting in reduced wheel travel. Kind of like the back end is squatting down on itself.

Up front, it's a whole other feeling. I know it's too little damping when the suspension bounces back on me. You hit a bump, feel the compression, and then boing! it feels like it shot back higher than it started. I'll take rebound a click at a time until it feels best.

Huck, your explanation certainly makes these adjustments easy to understand...........Thanks, it helped me out. And I wasn't even the one asking how to do this, Great Job! Just goes to show you even old dogs can learn a thing or two.

Hope this helps.
 
Which adjustment do you use to keep the bike from diving so much upon hard braking???
Assuming that you have used preload to set the sag and have the correct springs in the forks, then fork oil height can be used to control fork dive. More oil in the forks decreases the air space which will then compress at an increasing rate as the fork dives and can provide up to 25 percent of the resistance at the end of the stroke.
That's as good a tip a any. The lesser amount of air will compress to a point of resistance more quickly and act as a spring helper, but you won't get the full effect until very late in the suspension travel.

You certianly don't want to load your spring enough to compensate for this, and no, more oil isn't necessarily always better, but it can help.

Another thing you might consider is reducing the rate of suspension compression by taking better advantage of your rear brake. Using the rear will help slow the bike down with much less dive. It doesn't give a ton of braking force, but it can help keep the bike's pitch attitude flatter for longer on the approach to the corner.

Trouble with this "traditional" fork set up is that the weight transfer on aggressive front braking has nowhere else to go.
Hate to reply to my own reply, but I got thinking more about this and realized that a more viable solution could be progressive rate springs. These will (as the name suggests) become progressively firmer as the load increases. The damping adjustments will work in conjunction with the (typically) faster wheel movement at the bottom of the stroke. As the wheel travels upward, it will begin to slow, decreasing the effectiveness of the dampers, but that spring will continue to get tighter.

I've been in lots of conversations about the relationship between damper adjustment and spring rate, but at the end of the day, I believe there is a connection between them, and when you get it right, you'll know.

Start with black coffee, adjust sugar content, adjust milk content, and bingo, the perfect cup of coffee.

Start with springs, addjust compression, adjust rebound, bingo, a glorious ride.

Now the weight of the oil on the other hand...

 
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I'll add some to Mike's reply:
Springs in suspension control the overall amount of energy that can be absorbed. Dampening adjusters control the rate at which that energy is absorbed (compression) and released (rebound).

Springs come first in my book, and should be adjusted so that you get the desired amount of "sag". This is a measurement of how much the bike settles whn you sit on it versus when it's sitting on its own (simplified answer). The more you preload that spring, the less it will settle when you sit on it. Thi is kind of bad, because you want the suspension to be at least partially into its stroke to allow ample movement in both directions. There is tons of information on how much sag for what application, I leave that to the individual, but on my 06, with my 185# but on it, the front forks are adjusted to the first full line below the cap. That means almost fully pre-loaded.

Ok, now for me comes compression damping. The more you turn the "clicker" in, the harder those concrete joints in the road and bridge gaps are going to jar your hands. So turn that puppie out until the roads you ride on feel smooth. You can always change it if you need to out on the road. I thought I was pretty happy with mine until just recently I turned the clickers out one more. Like BUTTAH!

Rebound for me is a tricky one. You don't want it too stiff, then the wheel won't get back on the road fast enough, and if you hit another bump, it will feel pretty harsh. There's a phenomenon called "packing" (mostly in dirt bikes) where successive bumps continue to compress the rear suspension, but the rebound is so damped that it doesn't release, resulting in reduced wheel travel. Kind of like the back end is squatting down on itself.

Up front, it's a whole other feeling. I know it's too little damping when the suspension bounces back on me. You hit a bump, feel the compression, and then boing! it feels like it shot back higher than it started. I'll take rebound a click at a time until it feels best.

Hope this helps.
I would only add to what Huck and Mike said the following

1) Take your time and be systematic. Change one setting at a time and change it in increments go until you are past what you like.

2) Keep in mind that the "tighter" the suspension (up to a point) will provide more feed back from the road surface. a really soft setup will feel sloshy like driving a Cadillac. at some point the "boing" sensation that Huck described will pan out to less traction as the weight of your body and bike are spring off the tires/contact patch.

Good luck and you should consider reporting your experiences to the forum so that people can tell you based on what you are feeling which setting to change.

 
Hate to reply to my own reply, but I got thinking more about this and realized that a more viable solution could be progressive rate springs. These will (as the name suggests) become progressively firmer as the load increases. The damping adjustments will work in conjunction with the (typically) faster wheel movement at the bottom of the stroke. As the wheel travels upward, it will begin to slow, decreasing the effectiveness of the dampers, but that spring will continue to get tighter.
I've been in lots of conversations about the relationship between damper adjustment and spring rate, but at the end of the day, I believe there is a connection between them, and when you get it right, you'll know.
The biggest problem with progressive rate springs is nobody makes a progressive rate valve. Most suspension valves are near linear in response. When you combine a progressive rate spring with a linear dampening valve system, the result is "detuned" suspension at the extremes of travel.

Most modern suspension continuously struggles to be as linear in both spring and valving as possible. It's the Holy Grahl of suspension engineering.

Europeans are still fond of progressive rate springs in their dirt bikes. Mostly because they want something very soft to eat up the pounding from cross country, off-road riding.

Another trade-off to consider with progressive rate springs, is the typical loss in total travel. They tend to settle much deeper for the same given static weight. So you typically lose an appreciable percentage of available travel before ever shifting into first gear.

 
Hate to reply to my own reply, but I got thinking more about this and realized that a more viable solution could be progressive rate springs. These will (as the name suggests) become progressively firmer as the load increases. The damping adjustments will work in conjunction with the (typically) faster wheel movement at the bottom of the stroke. As the wheel travels upward, it will begin to slow, decreasing the effectiveness of the dampers, but that spring will continue to get tighter.
I've been in lots of conversations about the relationship between damper adjustment and spring rate, but at the end of the day, I believe there is a connection between them, and when you get it right, you'll know.
The biggest problem with progressive rate springs is nobody makes a progressive rate valve. Most suspension valves are near linear in response. When you combine a progressive rate spring with a linear dampening valve system, the result is "detuned" suspension at the extremes of travel.

Most modern suspension continuously struggles to be as linear in both spring and valving as possible. It's the Holy Grahl of suspension engineering.

Europeans are still fond of progressive rate springs in their dirt bikes. Mostly because they want something very soft to eat up the pounding from cross country, off-road riding.

Another trade-off to consider with progressive rate springs, is the typical loss in total travel. They tend to settle much deeper for the same given static weight. So you typically lose an appreciable percentage of available travel before ever shifting into first gear.
short of electronic sensors and onboard computers to control a variable flow orafice how would you make a progressive dampening valve? I think the concept is cool because you chould have a very tight suspension that in principle softened if the shock detected packing (for example).

 
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Hate to reply to my own reply, but I got thinking more about this and realized that a more viable solution could be progressive rate springs. These will (as the name suggests) become progressively firmer as the load increases. The damping adjustments will work in conjunction with the (typically) faster wheel movement at the bottom of the stroke. As the wheel travels upward, it will begin to slow, decreasing the effectiveness of the dampers, but that spring will continue to get tighter.
I've been in lots of conversations about the relationship between damper adjustment and spring rate, but at the end of the day, I believe there is a connection between them, and when you get it right, you'll know.
The biggest problem with progressive rate springs is nobody makes a progressive rate valve. Most suspension valves are near linear in response. When you combine a progressive rate spring with a linear dampening valve system, the result is "detuned" suspension at the extremes of travel.

Most modern suspension continuously struggles to be as linear in both spring and valving as possible. It's the Holy Grahl of suspension engineering.

Europeans are still fond of progressive rate springs in their dirt bikes. Mostly because they want something very soft to eat up the pounding from cross country, off-road riding.

Another trade-off to consider with progressive rate springs, is the typical loss in total travel. They tend to settle much deeper for the same given static weight. So you typically lose an appreciable percentage of available travel before ever shifting into first gear.
short of electronic sensors and onboard computers to control a variable flow orafice how would you make a progressive dampening valve? I think the concept is cool because you chould have a very tight suspension that in principle softened if the shock detected packing (for example).
Great question. The shim stacks in use can react differently to different rates of oil flow, so in a sense they are progressive, but not infinitely. To create an infinitey variable resistance to fluid flow would probaly take a combination of total flow volume control along with variable fluid viscosity.

Some cars are using electro-magnetic fluids in suspension now (sorry, can't name brands right now), but that would add serious $$$ to our scooters, and not sure if the suspension action on bikes is similar enough to that of cars for the technology to be applicable.

Hmmm...the CVT of suspension...another glass of wine and I'll sleep on it.

 
Just wanted to say thank you to all of you very knowledgable forum members who've posted on this thread. It is extrememly helpful and informative. Just another example of why this forum is about the best tool an FJR owner can have at his disposal.

Much appreciated.

Speakin' of tools, does :jester: still haunt this place?

 
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