Suspension Tuning

[TheAxeman]

Add me to the "ignorance is bliss" group because so far I've been fairly happy with the stock suspension. When the time comes to replace it I'll upgrade. I adjusted the suspension as per Jeff Ashe and it was a marked improvement over the way I had it originally set.

 

[twowheelnut]

Add me to the "ignorance is bliss" group because so far I've been fairly happy with the stock suspension. When the time comes to replace it I'll upgrade. I adjusted the suspension as per Jeff Ashe and it was a marked improvement over the way I had it originally set.

The point is Axe, once you do toss on an A/M shock you'll ask yourself why you hadn't done so sooner. The difference - even to the unskilled/trained tush - is huge.

 

[feejer222]

Excellent advice, BUT,
Having raced, and worked on race bikes for some time, I really dont think that changing the suspension setup on an FJR is what you want to be doing. Mine handles great with just me on or with wife & luggage. Solid as a rock and smooth. It holds a line in heavy wind, doesn't drift in corners, nor under-steer. As I dont need to shave a couple of tenths of my lap time I don't feel the need to adjust anything, let alone spend money on suspension replacements.

What will make a difference is tyre pressures. I have noticed moreso on a fully loaded road bike than a race bike.

Huh? Gotta disagree with you there. I haven't raced, or wrenched on bikes for a living, but I can tell you that the Wilbers shock and fork springs I installed worked wonders for the FJR's handling, whether hitting the curves, or riding straight down the road. Changing the FJR's suspension is EXACTLY what you want to be doing. Buying quality suspension components will easily show the limitations of the stock suspenders. But then heck, there is that saying, "Ignorance is bliss".

+1

It's a toss-up for me which was the best upgrade to the bike: Wilbers or Bill Mayer Saddle. Without either, I may have sold this machine a long time ago. With them, well, just try and pry this thing away from me.

OK OK, my problem is I love the bike and cant see how it can be improved. Mybe I will make enquiries this side of the pond. Just not the done thing here on this type of bike.

 

[sprint_st]

OK OK, my problem is I love the bike and cant see how it can be improved. Mybe I will make enquiries this side of the pond. Just not the done thing here on this type of bike.

Sometimes I think guys on this side of the pond are never satisfied. My last bike handled very well but I knew that because the one I had before it really sucked. I initially thought I would have to keep my Sprint because the FJR, of course, would not be able to scratch my twisty itch. I sold my Sprint because even though the FJR could not go as fast "in the turn" it could go through turns well enough to keep the excitement and pleasure at a high level. So far, stock is doing just fine. Sure you can add this or that but nothing will turn it into a GSXR, but then if I wanted a GSXR I would have bought one.

 

[SkooterG]

Sometimes I think guys on this side of the pond are never satisfied. My last bike handled very well but I knew that because the one I had before it really sucked. I initially thought I would have to keep my Sprint because the FJR, of course, would not be able to scratch my twisty itch. I sold my Sprint because even though the FJR could not go as fast "in the turn" it could go through turns well enough to keep the excitement and pleasure at a high level. So far, stock is doing just fine. Sure you can add this or that but nothing will turn it into a GSXR, but then if I wanted a GSXR I would have bought one.

Sometimes I think folks around here are missing the point due to a stubborn refusal to consider anything else outside of their own little world. From your words above, you are definitely missing the point, I will try to clarify.

I have never owned a GSXR, or any other type of sportbike for that matter. Nor do I want one. The FJR is the sportiest bike I have ever owned, and is far sportier than I need. Also, ask anyone who has seen how my tires wear, and they will confirm that my living in the desert flatlands of Arizona does not afford me the opportunity to hit many corners in my normal day to day riding. What I am getting at here, what many have tried to say already, and what THE POINT is, is that an upgraded suspension will benefit even those who ride in straight lines and don't have a lot of skill.

It adds a whole lot of plushness to normal everyday riding, while still allowing the bike to feel great when you do lean it over, even if not much.

Now I understand that you don't get it. I didn't either before I upgraded. In fact it was a huge stretch for me to spend the $$$ on a custom suspension when I though the stocker was fine for the type and level of riding I was doing. I had never done it before and everything was fine, right? Well, it took some effort, but I listened to *those who were telling me from experience that they knew better* and now I am glad I did. Right away, even I noticed great improvement in EVERYDAY riding. Now, there is no way I would own and FJR more than a few thousand miles without having a custom suspension. It's one of the first things I would install. So it's not that we are never satisfied, it's just that obviously we have a bit more knowledge and wisdom than you when it comes to upgraded suspensions because many of us have actually experienced *both* and are not just shooting off at the mouth.

Besides my little "Ignorance is bliss" gem, here's another: Don't knock it until you try it.

Now there is nothing earth shatteringly *wrong* with the stock suspension, most can get along fine with it. But until you have tried a custom set-up, you really have no idea what you are missing or how limiting the stock suspension is in FJR handling bliss.

Now, with all that said, if any of you other FJR owners out there who have upgraded their suspension disagree with me on the significance of this particular mod, speak up. I would value your input.

 

[Fencer]

The point is Axe, once you do toss on an A/M shock you'll ask yourself why you hadn't done so sooner. The difference - even to the unskilled/trained tush - is huge.

I have to agree. There is a section of freeway I-20 west between Bham and Atl that will nod your head up and down in a car and pound your butt on a bike. One time on a trip back home I had left my stock shock on hard from riding earlier in the day. I had to pull over and swap to soft to finish the ride.

The same stretch with the new Penske likens the road to a Luxury car ride to my tush

 

[jestal]

Excellent advice, BUT,
Having raced, and worked on race bikes for some time, I really dont think that changing the suspension setup on an FJR is what you want to be doing. Mine handles great with just me on or with wife & luggage. Solid as a rock and smooth. It holds a line in heavy wind, doesn't drift in corners, nor under-steer. As I dont need to shave a couple of tenths of my lap time I don't feel the need to adjust anything, let alone spend money on suspension replacements.

What will make a difference is tyre pressures. I have noticed moreso on a fully loaded road bike than a race bike.

Dude....you need to do just what I said and try turning those knobs and gizzies and you will find that it can be better. You'll never know unless you try it so it is wrong to try and disuade someone from experimenting with the suspension. Even changes in tire pressure are best evaluated back-to-back under a fixed set of circumstances...done as I described. If nothing else they can at least learn something by playing with all the adjustments in a controlled fashion even if it ends up no better in the long run.

Don't get me wrong, the FJR is pretty good all round as stock in the suspension department. Especially compared to the decades old machines I got off of when I bought the FJR. But, as good as it is it can be made MUCH better. I could care less about a few tenths at the track myself. I was looking for much better suspension control over bumpy surfaces, less "hop" when hitting large bumps like tar strips, pot holes and square edged bumps on cement freeway sections.

Lots can be done with the stock suspension in terms of ride control and ride quality. The front fork is fairly adjustable and changing spring preload, spring rate and oil levels in the fork are fairly easy mods with a lot of return. The stock rear is not as good as the front suspension IMO. It needs more preload and more spring rate and much better damping control.

If you rode my 03 with all the suspension work I've done on it you would not think so highly of your stock FJR suspension, trust me.

BTW....having done suspension "tuning" on track bikes is no qualification, in my mind, for rating nor tuning street bike suspensions. What works on the track and makes better lap times is seldom, if ever, what works well on street bikes in terms of compliance and ride quality while maintaining a capable level of performance. Track tuning is fairly "easy" compared to the street. Track work can put up with overly stiff, overly damped suspensions since each track is a known entity. The street is a never ending unknown that does not allow the rather tight window of track tuning tricks. Not to say that a particular part might not work well on both the track and the street (such as a fork brace) but the tuning of the suspension elements is generally totally different.

 

[FJRMGM]

+1 to this ---> THE POINT is, is that an upgraded suspension will benefit even those who ride in straight lines and don't have a lot of skill.

It adds a whole lot of plushness to normal everyday riding, while still allowing the bike to feel great when you do lean it over, even if not much.

 

[twowheelnut]

I have to agree. There is a section of freeway I-20 west between Bham and Atl that will nod your head up and down in a car and pound your butt on a bike. One time, on a trip back home from band camp, I had left my stock shock on hard from riding earlier in the day. I had to pull over and swap to soft to finish the ride.
The same stretch with the new Penske likens the road to a Luxury car ride to my tush

Fixed it for you.

 

[sprint_st]

Sometimes I think folks around here are missing the point due to a stubborn refusal to consider anything else outside of their own little world. From your words above, you are definitely missing the point, I will try to clarify.
I have never owned a GSXR, or any other type of sportbike for that matter.

Now I understand that you don't get it.

Besides my little "Ignorance is bliss" gem, here's another: Don't knock it until you try it.

Now there is nothing earth shatteringly *wrong* with the stock suspension, most can get along fine with it. But until you have tried a custom set-up, you really have no idea what you are missing or how limiting the stock suspension is in FJR handling bliss.

Now, with all that said, if any of you other FJR owners out there who have upgraded their suspension disagree with me on the significance of this particular mod, speak up. I would value your input.

If you never had a good handling bike, then how do you know what a good handling bike is? If you have other people doing the work by bolting on this or that, how do you know what you what you could have gotten with a good setup of stock components? It is also very hard for me to believe that you get that much "handling" improvement over a well set up stock suspension if you predominantly ride straight line.

 

[twowheelnut]

If you never had a good handling bike, then how do you know what a good handling bike is?

Simple. It feels more comfortable to ride the thing - even if it is only in a straight line. Same as how we can tell that a custom saddle is better that the stocker.

 

[Last Chance]

This is an area that I have interest in and no knowledge. With all the money I've spent on the FJR, it will be a while before anymore is invested! However, my experience with my VTX1800C was that I didn't realize how bad the suspension was, til it wasn't! Sciatic nerve, lover back pain and symptoms of "whip-lash" all went away when I did two things. Progressive 440 rear shocks and progressive fork springs. However it was cheap on the X, only $500. (The Ultimate seat had a lot to do with fixing my back also.) The difference in ride was amazing. Bike seemed to be "more planted". No more jolts when shocks bottomed out. Bike felt solid in turns and rear wheel seldom lost contact with the pavement for any reason, speed bumps, chuck holes, etc. I have returned the bike to stock to sell off the "expensive" farkles. I rode it around a little stock. I was right, it sucks.

Now, in comparison the FJR is a smooth magic carpet...To me. That's because I haven't had the pleasure of riding an "upgraded" suspension. Know what... I don't want to. At least not til I can afford it. I think the older, and more worn out one gets the more one appreciates an "upgrded suspension". B)

Last Chance

 

[jestal]

It is also very hard for me to believe that you get that much "handling" improvement over a well set up stock suspension if you predominantly ride straight line.

Are you serious? There is a LOT that can be done to the suspension that affects the ride quality and suspension control over bumps and other imperfections while traveling in a straight line. Granted, a lot can be done with the stock parts but there is still much room for improvements even in a straight line. Go ride over a rough rail road crossing and tell me that "straight line" riding doesn't require much suspension sophistication.

 

[Neville McNaughton]

I wrote this some years ago and it seemed to help with basic understanding and allow riders to set up their bikes. When starting from scratch I always set the pre-load, its easier with a little help to do the rear. I set the rebound in the mid position and keep the compression damping off. From hear you must interprete what the road tells you.

Neville

A Layman's guide to Bike set up.

by

Neville McNaughton

Much of the satisfaction of riding a motorcycle comes from the way it runs and the way it handles. Typical first upgrades are a pipe followed by a jet kit or chip. Very often suspension set-up is ignored, yet this, combined with some strategic upgrades, will yield a greater impact on the combined rider and bike's ability to hustle from corner to corner. Typically, the last considered up-grade is the one of rider skill and a track school, but that's another story....

Bike set-up involves tires and suspension, with the main focus of this primer being the basic rules for a good set-up.

In order for the wheels of your bike to deliver the functions of acceleration and braking, they must stay in contact with the road. In order for them to do this, they must be able to move in a controlled fashion following the road surface.

There are three functional aspects of all suspension systems: Spring rate, Compression damping, and Rebound damping. Depending on the bike you ride, these may or may not be adjustable externally. In some cases, they are fixed by the manufacturer with no external adjustment possible.

Spring rate: This is determined by calculation and experience. An ideal spring rate for most situations is one that will allow 25% - 30% of the suspension travel to be used up with the rider aboard, sometimes referred to as sag. If a passenger or luggage were to be carried, more pre-load would be required. Pre-load should be set with the aid of a tape measure; an assistant makes this easier. Race Tech even sells a tape measure with the addition of a small pin on the body for insertion into a hollow axle. This is to permit the rear suspension pre-load to be measured by the rider while on the bike. Setting up the front suspension requires the use of a twist tie around the male part, the fork slider, to measure the amount of sag. It is also important to take into account stiction when performing this measurement. Stiction is the initial inability of the suspension to move. Again, Race Tech provides excellent information which is available usually with the purchase of their products.

Rebound damping: Not quite as easy as using a tape measure, this requires the bike to be ridden with the objective of having the bike absorb bumps by compressing the suspension and returning to its original position in a controlled fashion. The suspension is set up correctly when it can run over a series of bumps and does not pack down/compress the suspension or, extend or get taller. If too much rebound is used, the bike will compress the suspension over a series of bumps in the road and become harder and will loose its ability to absorb the last of the bumps in the series. Solution: back of the rebound. A good place to start when setting rebound is in the middle of the range provided.

Compression damping: This is usually the last adjustment made. When the spring rate and rebound dampening settings have been made and appear to be working fine, but things may not be quite right, look at the compression damping. Compression damping works with the suspension spring during compression. It is desirable for the suspension at both ends to compress at the same rate, i.e. we want the bike to move up and down in a horizontal plane. It is possible to use compression damping to control the rate of compression. If one end with correct pre-load appears to be still too soft, add some compression damping to the soft end to obtain the correct movement of the bike in a horizontal plane.

Some general rules:

When adding more pre-load, add more rebound damping

Rough roads require softer suspension settings

Smooth racetrack surfaces allow firmer suspension settings

Well-serviced suspensions work better than neglected ones

In the rain, run with softer suspension settings*

On the track, run lower tire pressures to increase contact patch and compliance of the tires**

* For street riding in the rain, run firmer tires to reduce hydroplaning.

** 2 – 3 psi reduction is common for racetrack use. This is not recommended for the street. Heat build up on the street can cause catastrophic failure; the manufacturers guidelines that I have received suggest an acceptable increase in psi from cold to hot is 4 – 8 psi in one case, and 7 – 10% in the other.

Additional note:

Firm suspension settings used at racetracks permit the bike to avoid the radical changes in steering geometry that we experience on our street bikes. This makes them more predictable. Hard core track setups are not suitable for the more accommodating needs of street riders; street setup is a compromise.

 

[TestPilot]

If you never had a good handling bike, then how do you know what a good handling bike is? If you have other people doing the work by bolting on this or that, how do you know what you what you could have gotten with a good setup of stock components? It is also very hard for me to believe that you get that much "handling" improvement over a well set up stock suspension if you predominantly ride straight line.

I have an '01 FJR - one of the first available in Australia. Yes, the one that had really soft/weak suspension. Each year I consider upgrading, and decide not to, because my bike is just so good in so many areas.

How did I get it that way? Bought a Superbrace in the first group buy, at the time just because it seemed like a good idea. Wow, $ well spent! That made the front so much more secure in long sweepers and mid-speed rough corners.

Then I wanted to eliminate some front end dive - read up a bit, and played with front preload and compression rates. First one at a time - adjusted right out one way, rode a 2km each way 'there and back' twisty course (short enough to remember individual corners). Found what I wanted and ketp it there.

Then bought Wilburs, shocky and uprated front springs - another group buy, and by then I knew enough to know that the 01 suspension could be improved. Great outcome, and did the 'same test and set' procedure. Each time it took me about 4 to 6 hours of testing, setting, retesting, etc.

Then played with loaded set up with my wife on the back - another 4 hours of playing, but when she understood what I was trying to achieve she was actually very helpful with feedback. Now she tells me if I have the preload too soft when we are riding 2-up fully loaded.

So yes, there are improvements - some cost time only; some cost time and money. And I am in the camp that says both the time and the $ are well invested.

 

[sprint_st]

It is also very hard for me to believe that you get that much "handling" improvement over a well set up stock suspension if you predominantly ride straight line.

Are you serious? There is a LOT that can be done to the suspension that affects the ride quality and suspension control over bumps and other imperfections while traveling in a straight line. Granted, a lot can be done with the stock parts but there is still much room for improvements even in a straight line. Go ride over a rough rail road crossing and tell me that "straight line" riding doesn't require much suspension sophistication.

Do you set up your suspension for a rough railroad crossing??? That surely isn't your predominant factor in straight line riding. My point is that when someone who admittedly states they don't know anything about the mechanics goes out and buys various farkles before setting up their bike properly they shouldn't be making recommendations on handling. If you get most suspension tuners offline they will tell you most riders don't have their stock bike set up correctly to begin with. There are articles after articles on this subject in sport bike magazines and on sport bike lists. If you want to see drastic handling differences, just change tire brands. So if you run off and get that Ohlin which is adjustable for whether you ate a burger or fillet mignon, do you know how to keep it adjusted? Most riders don't, me included.

 

[sportryder]

Lee Spittler at Traxxion Dynamics replaced my 06 suspension with his cartridges and an Ohlins shock.....its a different bike. IMO it all depends on the roads you ride on....if you frequent any "unsmooth" roads the new suspension will be noticeably superior. Ride Safe,

Ron

Ron,

I'd bet my life I mounted up a Penske 8981 to your bike. In fact, I believe I used your bike as the R&D mule for the '06 Penske resi mounting location. I fabricated a bracket especially for your bike so it would be a nice clean setup.

The only FJR that has ever been in the shop with an Ohlins shock is owned by smitty141.

Is alzheimers setting in??? Shame on you for using the "O" word. :haha:

 

[GAPS]

I adjusted the suspension as per Jeff Ashe and it was a marked improvement over the way I had it originally set.

Axeman or Jeff, what settings are you gents using? Im about 260lbs with my gear on, ride my 06 pretty hard on the lumpy backroads of New England.....looking for the best setup I can get out of my stock 06 suspension.....thanks.

 

[feejer222]

Seems to me the majority are shouting for suspension upgrades for a smoother ride over bumps. Buy a goldwing.

Fine suspension adjustment is for the track. Expensive replacement shocks are for the track.

I ride a brand new FJR, (Not an R1 or GSXR) I have ridden plenty (see below) on road and track and have adjusted more suspension than most have had hot dinners. Its a sports tourer, not an all out sports bike. I push it hard 2 up and with luggage, it stays rock solid. I love it. If I feel the bumps I dont really care, I use counter steering to avoid them. (See similarly heated thread).

It aint broke....I aint fixing it. End of.

 

[jestal]

Do you set up your suspension for a rough railroad crossing??? That surely isn't your predominant factor in straight line riding.

I don't set it up specifically for a rough railroad track crossing BUT I want to make sure that what changes I am making for other areas will still be capable of handling such an event. If you want to evaluate suspension tuning look for the worst roads so you can repeat suspension action, not the smooth and straight. That is easy. Any suspension will do it. Ride and handling engineers ALWAYS know where the worst roads are so they can fully evaluate the suspension activity whether the vehicle is going to used on that surface predominately or not. A race bike might be so stiff that it would simply chatter off the road on a rail road crossing. It would be great in the twisties and great on the smooth and straight but would be a nasty handful over those bumps. THAT is why you evaluate suspension action over the worst you might encounter instead of just riding it on the smooth stuff or the corners where you like.

BTW....you will find that as the suspension damping capability is improved those rail road tracks will get "smoother" as the suspension is more well controlled so the evaluation is valid regardless of how you plan on using it. Don't be fixated on my mention of railroad track, BTW. The idea is to pick out extreme road conditions of all sorts to be able to ride and repeat as changes are made. One of the nicest "finds" is a long fast sweeper with some undulating bumps in it. That can really tell you what the suspension is doing. Also nice to find is a section of concrete freeway with sharp edged slight bumps at each concrete section. That sort of "freeway hop" can be very difficult to tune out and make the suspension liveable.