Tire advice

[LSUBOY]

One of the biggest enemies of tires is heat cycles.  Even though there is plenty of tread left, the multiple heat cycles breaks down the chemicals that makes the tire work.  If it were me (and it was as I was in the same position), I would replace both.

Where's the beef?

I have heard this claim countless number of times, yet I have yet to see one objective fact filled piece of information to support it.

So please, in all haste, do point me in the direction of knowledge.

As for heat, one time I was ordering a set of white walls for my bike and the tire man at www.tiresunlimited.com told me that the white walls would wear faster than the black walls because:

***The white wall of the tire made the tire get hotter. And, because heat is what wears a tire out, it would not last as many miles as a black tire.

 

[benneyb]

One of the biggest enemies of tires is heat cycles.  Even though there is plenty of tread left, the multiple heat cycles breaks down the chemicals that makes the tire work.  If it were me (and it was as I was in the same position), I would replace both.

Where's the beef?

I have heard this claim countless number of times, yet I have yet to see one objective fact filled piece of information to support it.

So please, in all haste, do point me in the direction of knowledge.

Scoot,

Gotta agree. Besides, how much heat is the AVERAGE rider gonna generate in these tires anyway? Now track days are a differerent story obviously, and hard rides through the twisties on a regular basis another. But somone who rides THE PACE or similar, I can't see much of an impact from heat.

What do you experts say?? :argue: :axed:

 

[Feejer/Weejer man]

Ask the LD riders about how heat eats a tire. One istance reported only 1500 miles on a rear in the heat of the desert at warp speeds, so it does happen but not in normal riding conditions.

 

[Toecutter]

What do you experts say?? :argue: :axed:

Well, I'm no expert, but I've seen blistered, and weather-check tires before. I don't think there are any unseen molecular demons that are going to cause catastrophic failure after 8000 miles. If they're not worn down, or Metzelers*, hold air, are in balance and they they look good, run 'em.

* 'Cause that's the only brand I've seen pictures of with defects that couldn't be seen while mounted.

 

[SkooterG]

Ask the LD riders about how heat eats a tire. One istance reported only 1500 miles on a rear in the heat of the desert at warp speeds, so it does happen but not in normal riding conditions.

Uhhh....ok.

I'll answer that. I am a LD rider living in the Arizona desert. I ride in 110+ degrees and at elevated speeds.

Yet I get more miles out of my FJR's tires than most. My last set of Avons got me 12,750 out of the rear, and 18,400 out of the front.***

Heat my ass. LSUBoy's tire dude was full of caca, and spouting the same mis-information that everybody else does. Like BennyB alluded to, racing, however, is a completely different story.

Elevated speeds will have some moderate effect on the rear. Throttle control is the BIG factor, plain and simple. For the front-its braking.

Words of wisdom from SkooterG.

[SIZE=8pt]*** Closed course under supervison. Do not try this at home.[/SIZE]

 

[FJRocha]

... I get more miles out of my FJR's tires than most.  My last set of Avons got me 12,750 out of the rear, and 18,400 out of the front...

Was that using the "SkooterG's method of duct tape re-threading"? :haha: :haha: :haha:

 

[FJRocha]

My front BFG tire is cupped and the rear BFG has a repaired puncture so I'll be replacing them both after 6500 miles.

I just picked up a brand new set of Michelin Pilot Power that I'll be installing (myself) over the weekend. I'll let ya'll know how they come out.

 

[Toecutter]

I just picked up a brand new set of Michelin Pilot Power that I'll be installing (myself) over the weekend. I'll let ya'll know how they come out.

Aren't the Powers for light sport bikes? It'll be interesting to hear how they work on the Feej.

 

[tstaff]

My front BFG tire is cupped and the rear BFG has a repaired puncture so I'll be replacing them both after 6500 miles.
I just picked up a brand new set of Michelin Pilot Power that I'll be installing (myself) over the weekend. I'll let ya'll know how they come out.

Please keep us up to date on the Pilot Powers, i put them on my GSXR 1000 & was hooked, by far the best sport tires i've ever riden on.

 

[Scab]

Mileage also depends on tire compound. On my old GL1200, weighing a whopping 850+ pounds, I could still get 20,000 + out of a set Dunlop E3's. Of course, there was not the grip level as with feejer tires, it never leaned like a feejer, and it dang sure never launched from a green light like a feejer. As for white wall tires evaporating sooner - well that is just horse shit and gun smoke. White is the natural color of rubber. They have to add crap to make a tire black. As for white absorbing more heat, no. White actually absorbs less heat as much of the light spectrum is reflected and not absorbed. If there was any proof to whitewall tires wearing faster, it would be due to compound and not because of the color.

And back to the original request - Buy one, buy two. It really depends on nothing more than preference and available funds.

 

[SkooterG]

IIRC, others in the past have reported good results with the Pilot Powers in terms of handling. Tire life is a completely different matter however. I wouldn't be expecting much life out of the softer "sportbike" compound.

Frank, what on earth made you go for the Pilot Powers?

 

[FJRocha]

Frank, what on earth made you go for the Pilot Powers?

There are two distinct "Power" tires from Michelin.

The >>>POWER RACE<<< with soft compound specifically made for racing,

and the >>>PILOT POWER<<< which is a longer lasting road tire made with dual compound. This tire is recommended for the FJR at the >>>MICHELIN SITE<<<.

Since I am a Michelin tires kind-a guy, the other alternative was the Pilot Road, but I didn't like the thread as it looks more prone to cupping than the Pilot Power.

 

[SkooterG]

Frank, Frank, Frank........

Don't make me come over there and have to kick Pandora's daddy's butt.

Bueller? From the website you linked, the Pilot Power is located under the "Sport" section. Sport = softer compound, more traction, less life. Also, here is a quote from the Pilot Power webpage:

Its excellent feedback at the limit make it an ideal for extreme road riding and track days.

Extreme road riding and track days? Once again, doesn't quite sound like your typical sport-touring tire.

Hey, I am sure it will handle great, but at the cost of tire life. Face the facts, my friend. It's a French tire, so a sissy tire, and you will be replacing them very soon.

As for the Pilot Roads cupping, many, many, on this forum have reported excellent results using the Pilot Roads with nary a complaint about cupping.

 

[Toecutter]

I didn't like the thread as it looks more prone to cupping than the Pilot power.

On the tread appearance. Now go be a good guinea pig and keep us informed!

 

[Geezer]

My own experience was that the Z4s were pretty much shot, front and rear, at about 8500 so I replaced both with Avons. The front had some rubber left but was badly cupped.

If I had a good front, as you do, I would replace only the rear unless I had a long ride planned for the near future. In fact, I would probably buy both Avons and try the bike with the Avon on the rear and Pilot on the front to see if I liked it. If no good then swap in the Avon front, if it was OK then use it up before putting the Avon on the front.

It seems like a tire wears out faster than you expect once it starts to look like it is more than half used up.

 

[exskibum]

Pilot Powers are GREAT handling tires and that's what I run on my XX. But getting 4000 miles out of them is doing really well on that bike. It's got more HP than the FJR, but it's about 60 lbs lighter, too. I'm not sure which bike eats rear tires faster.

I just read, over on the XX site from a member in Amsterdam, that Michelin has just introduced a dual compound "Pilot Power 2CT" in Europe. Now, if that means that the middle of the tire is going to wear more like a Pilot Road and the thing is going to handle like a Power on its shoulders, then I can't wait until it hits the States.

 

[Randy]

One of the biggest enemies of tires is heat cycles.  Even though there is plenty of tread left, the multiple heat cycles breaks down the chemicals that makes the tire work.  If it were me (and it was as I was in the same position), I would replace both.

Where's the beef?

I have heard this claim countless number of times, yet I have yet to see one objective fact filled piece of information to support it.

So please, in all haste, do point me in the direction of knowledge.

This is an interesting read. https://www.insideracingtechnology.com/tirebkexerpt3.htm

Expected comments:

1)"but this is an article on car tires". Correct, but, tires are tires. They are made of rubber and contain additional components (carbon black and silica) to provide traction.

2)"this is an article on race tires". Correct, but, race tires and street tires both contain rubber and fillers to provide traction. Race tires are made up of a different chemical composition to provide additional traction, but, don't provide long life

https://searchwarp.com/swa23137.htm

 

[Scab]

Okay, read the articles. The first talks a lot, says little. The second, less. Granted, heat cycles will take a toll on an organic compound, but to what extent? Has any measurable benchmark been established? Not in the articles.

As for the motorcycle tire that began this thread - If the rear were to still have tread, no one would suggest to change the front based on heat cycles, so why now? Considering all the variables that could have contributed to the earlier demise of the rear vs. the front, I don't find any correlation dictating the change of the front. With available information regarding the front tire in this thread, I have seen no scientific reasoning that would dictate change. It's all preference.

As for the first article and race cars on 4 wheels - Has anyone considered the lap time deterioration of .05 seconds per lap (and what size track? 2.5 mile?), could be due to nothing more than the reduction in radius of the tire as it wears? I bet they didn't even check and do the math on that one.

 

[afterburn]

I have a set of Pilot Powers on my FJR and they suck on this bike. This bike is too heavy and the sidewalls of the Powers are too soft. These tires create a weaving instability at speeds over ~95mph. (an ST1300 type of feeling) I hope I can get 3,500miles (now at 3,000) out of the rear and then I will get rid of them both.

Loved this tire on my VFR though. Lighter, more sporty oriented bikes do great on MPP's.

 

[tripletango]

Did just that. Had BT020s on and wore out the back. Put another on the rear and then changed both to Avons around 13,000. Ordered a rear diablo Strada to get the free front for next change which will be when I wear out 2 Avon rears.

BTW they are looking aweful good after 3000 miles. Not much sign of the center of the rear wearing out at least not as fast as the 020s.