26,000 mile Valve Adjustment

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stryg8r

stryg8r

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I did my first valve check this weekend. All were within spec except for the #4 cylinder exhaust valve (the one closest to the cam sprocket). It was .006 so out came the cams. I used the manual and Dwayne Verhey's write-up from FJR1300.info which made it a relatively easy job. The only thing I could add is if you have to pull the exhaust cam you need to move the intake cam first. The numbers on the pad are worn off so I'll get it mic'd today and hopefully the dealer will have the size I need.

I'm a little concered because most of my clearances were right on the edge of being too tight. But without a reference point its not known how much they've tightened up. They could have all been set this way at the factory. It will be interesting when I check then again to see if they're still within specs.

#1 #2 #3 #4

EX1 .007 .008 .007 .008

EX2 .007 .007 .008 .006

IN1 .006 .006 .006 .007

IN2 .006 .006 .006 .006

Derek

 
My experience has been that the valves closest to the cam sprocket tend to settle slightly tight. It makes sense when you consider that the cam chain tends to pull the camshaft downward toward the valve. Any wear tolerance that results causes the drive-side valves to be slightly tighter.

It's also been my experience that once the initial "settling" occurs, the valves stay in spec for many, many hours thereafter. Yamaha really has their act together on hi-perf 4-stroke valve systems.

Curious, did you note any visible timing change due to stretch of the chain? Again my experience, has been that performance slips slightly as normal chain wear kicks in. Since the timing relationship between exhaust and intake is strictly controlled by the integrity of the chain, when the chain wears even a tiny bit, it can cause a 1-3 degree shift in cam timing.

On racing bikes I tend to replace the cam chain much more frequently than recommended by Yami. But I'm not racing my FJR. Just wondering if anyone else has experience with cam chain wear.

Thanks for sharing your valve experience. I'm about 3,000 miles behind you.

 
Great "Technical Discussions" posts. On my 122K mile Concours, I installed Ninja aftermarket slotted cam-sprockets and dialed-in the lobe-centers I wanted -- regardless of chain-stretch (wear). Something you can do if you've got the inclination and time. :huh: ;)

 
stryg8r said:
I did my first valve check this weekend. All were within spec except for the #4 cylinder exhaust valve (the one closest to the cam sprocket). It was .006 so out came the cams. I used the manual and Dwayne Verhey's write-up from FJR1300.info which made it a relatively easy job. The only thing I could add is if you have to pull the exhaust cam you need to move the intake cam first. The numbers on the pad are worn off so I'll get it mic'd today and hopefully the dealer will have the size I need.
I'm a little concered because most of my clearances were right on the edge of being too tight. But without a reference point its not known how much they've tightened up. They could have all been set this way at the factory. It will be interesting when I check then again to see if they're still within specs.

#1 #2 #3 #4

EX1 .007 .008 .007 .008

EX2 .007 .007 .008 .006

IN1 .006 .006 .006 .007

IN2 .006 .006 .006 .006

Derek
Click to expand...

That's the best place to be, IMO. In spec but towards the tight. Helps cut down on engine noise.

I'm at 21K on my '05. I'd be happy to get numbers like you got. A lot of guys have reported not needing any shim swaps. Fingers crossed.

 
That's the best place to be, IMO. In spec but towards the tight. Helps cut down on engine noise.
Click to expand...
I have a little different take on this. First, in spec is good, anyplace in spec. Given a choice I would rather be slightly on the loose side :) As your FJR gains miles from the last valve check/adjust to the next check/adjust the valves will go from looser to tighter. Loose adjustment *may* cause a bit of valve tick. It will also produce a slight increase in low end performance and a slight decrease in top end performance. It will also provide slack to be taken up as the clearances tighten up. Valves adjusted to the loose end of spec should never contribute to mechanical problems as long as your FJR doesn't live at the rev limiter.

Adjustments on the tight side will produce a slight decrease in low end performance and produce a slight increase in top end performance. Adjustments on the tight side shouldn't tick, are acceptable because they *are* in spec -- but -- there is no margin for valve train wear. Any wear at all will take the valve out of adjustment. Unlike a loose adjustment, tight valves are moving in a direction that could lead to burning the valves and valve seats.

In spec, tight or loose is in spec, my personal preference is to err on the side of loose. YMMV.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
JeffAshe said:
Curious, did you note any visible timing change due to stretch of the chain? Again my experience, has been that performance slips slightly as normal chain wear kicks in. Since the timing relationship between exhaust and intake is strictly controlled by the integrity of the chain, when the chain wears even a tiny bit, it can cause a 1-3 degree shift in cam timing.
Click to expand...
You bring up a good point that I hadn't considered. But to be honest, I wasn't going to check the timing since the cam sprockets never left the chain, the chain appears to be in like new condition, and the timing is not adjustable anyway.

 
the chain appears to be in like new condition, and the timing is not adjustable anyway.
Click to expand...
The cam chain tensioner (when working properly) should mitigate most of the timing shift from chain stretching.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks for posting the numbers. Always good to have more real-world data to calibrate whether Yamaha's intervals are appropriate.

Aftter having adjusted valves on tens of bikes, I don't chase the "perfect adjustment" or try to juggle things to get a valve one side or the other of the range- that's chasing a level of perfection that simply isn't warranted given all the variables involved. If it's in spec, I leave the valve alone.

- Mark

 
stryg8r said:
JeffAshe said:
Curious, did you note any visible timing change due to stretch of the chain? Again my experience, has been that performance slips slightly as normal chain wear kicks in. Since the timing relationship between exhaust and intake is strictly controlled by the integrity of the chain, when the chain wears even a tiny bit, it can cause a 1-3 degree shift in cam timing.
Click to expand...
You bring up a good point that I hadn't considered. But to be honest, I wasn't going to check the timing since the cam sprockets never left the chain, the chain appears to be in like new condition, and the timing is not adjustable anyway.
Click to expand...
You can always slot the cam gears and degree the cams! :rolleyes:

 
+ 1 -- RTSR1/FJR

ionbeam said:
the chain appears to be in like new condition, and the timing is not adjustable anyway.
Click to expand...
The cam chain tensioner (when working properly) should mitigate most of the timing shift from chain stretching.
Click to expand...
Not entirely accurate -- altho I'm not aware of any slotted aftermarket sprockets, some may be available (or, you could do it yourself). Or extra bolt holes could be made at 'partial key-way' positions -- ala old Triumph twins. If you know what you're doing and know where you want to go (You become the engineer) the DOHC set-up with chain & sprocket drive offers unlimited possibilities for cam timing.Also, I think one of the not so beneficial side-effects of the automatic tensioner is that it's often just tightening the hell out of the chain (often creating a whining sound) and, altho not promoting wear, does ensure that all slack is always in one direction. That slack, especially as it accumulates over time, does change the cam timing.

'markjenn': I don't chase the "perfect adjustment" or try to juggle things to get a valve one side or the other of the range- that's chasing a level of perfection that simply isn't warranted given all the variables involved. If it's in spec, I leave the valve alone.
Click to expand...
I'm in complete agreement and subscribe to the "go -- no go" method. A min-spec feeler gauge must "go" and an out-of-spec one "not go".
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thought I'd resurrect this thread to keep all the data together.

I know most FJR's don't need valve adjustments. And those that do usually only require one. But some require multiple adjustments. Just I'm one of the unlucky ones.

I just finished my 2nd check (54,000 miles) and found 4 valves had tightened too much and were out of spec.

Cylinder #1 #2 #3 #4

Ex 1 .007 .008 .008 .008

Ex 2 .007 .007 .008 .007

In 1 .006 .005(.007) .005(.006) .006

In 2 .006 .005(.006) .005(.007) .006

The existing shims were all 185's and I replaced them with 180's. Total cost was 8 dollars (2 per shim exchanged). Numbers in parens are the new clearances.

Derek

 
"The cam chain tensioner (when working properly) should mitigate most of the timing shift from chain stretching."

This doesn't seem logical.

As the chain stretches the distance between each roller increases. The tensioner has no effect on the distance between rollers.

So the tensioner has little/no effect on timing between crankshaft and camshafts.

 
stryg8r said:
Thought I'd resurrect this thread to keep all the data together.

I know most FJR's don't need valve adjustments. And those that do usually only require one. But some require multiple adjustments. Just I'm one of the unlucky ones.

I just finished my 2nd check (54,000 miles) and found 4 valves had tightened too much and were out of spec.

Cylinder #1 #2 #3 #4

Ex 1 .007 .008 .008 .008

Ex 2 .007 .007 .008 .007

In 1 .006 .005(.007) .005(.006) .006

In 2 .006 .005(.006) .005(.007) .006

The existing shims were all 185's and I replaced them with 180's. Total cost was 8 dollars (2 per shim exchanged). Numbers in parens are the new clearances.

Derek
Click to expand...
I know a lot of folks around here don't think the valve checks are necessary, but in the 5 times that I have had the dealer perform the service, 4 times he has re-shimmed. My last one, at 140,000 miles, I had 5 valves that were tight- Clicky Here.

We'll see how my next one goes in about a month.

 
ionbeam said:
QUOTE
That's the best place to be, IMO. In spec but towards the tight. Helps cut down on engine noise.
I have a little different take on this. First, in spec is good, anyplace in spec. Given a choice I would rather be slightly on the loose side
smile.gif
As your FJR gains miles from the last valve check/adjust to the next check/adjust the valves will go from looser to tighter. Loose adjustment *may* cause a bit of valve tick. It will also produce a slight increase in low end performance and a slight decrease in top end performance. It will also provide slack to be taken up as the clearances tighten up. Valves adjusted to the loose end of spec should never contribute to mechanical problems as long as your FJR doesn't live at the rev limiter.

Adjustments on the tight side will produce a slight decrease in low end performance and produce a slight increase in top end performance. Adjustments on the tight side shouldn't tick, are acceptable because they *are* in spec -- but -- there is no margin for valve train wear. Any wear at all will take the valve out of adjustment. Unlike a loose adjustment, tight valves are moving in a direction that could lead to burning the valves and valve seats.

In spec, tight or loose is in spec, my personal preference is to err on the side of loose. YMMV.
Click to expand...
Raising this thread from the dead because it had good info for me in my hour of need.

Just did the clearance check today and bear this facts in mind: Old Yellow has 190K on the clock, last valve check was nearly 3 yrs and 60K miles ago, and so far only one shim has ever needed to be replaced and that was at around the 75K mark.

My findings today: I1/I2 .18/.20 .19/.19 .18/.17 .20/.18 E1/E2 .23/.24 .25/.23 .23/.20 .25/.20

So my concern was that even though they were all in spec., I was concerned about those three exhaust side valves being at the very edge (.25 (2) & .24 (1)).

I was relieved when I read Ionbeam's post. I wasn't really looking forward to pulling out shims and switching. It's a big enough PIA as it is just to reinstall the valve cover alone.

I gotta say I am amazed. 190K and only one shim replacement.

 
Let me add something here about Yamaha valves. I had a 97 Royal Star. At near 26k miles I did my valve clearance check according to the schedule. I found all 16 valves near the close end of the spec but within spec, but the outboard #1 exhaust valve had so little clearance I couldn't get my smallest feeler under the lobe, a .0015 feeler! That taught me a lesson.

That being, DO do the first valve check, and do it early. The factory isn't perfect. I followed that practice on my 07 Venture, and at 20k miles found several valves a hair too tight, meaning just a little out of spec, but nothing like on that Royal Star. A second idea of mine is, since valves tighten with wear, when I do have to go to all the trouble to open the engine and pull cams, I set all the valves right near the max clearance. That should grant me plenty of room to skip the next interval, if I need to. I do all my measuring and then order the shims in one whack, get it over with.

 

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