My FJR Thinks it's a Harley

OK, so from day one, my bike has always weeped a bit from the rear end. I change the final drive fluid every time I do the oil and it's never really been low. My rear tire though has always been black and dingy.

At EOM however, I noticed a puddle under my bike after the ride there. It was mighty warm. Not a huge puddle but enough to concern me. I checked the level and it was still 'acceptable' so I figured I had maybe over filled it the last time I changed it.

I also noticed it was leaking at the four bolts where the pumpkin bolts on the shaft.

Today I made a run down to La Grange to pickup parts from Keithaba... We also rode another 150 ish miles and then stopped for a drink. In the time it took me to get the bottle of watter a pretty impressive pool had formed under my bike.

We finished the ride and I bolted for home. (of course no dealers are open on Sunday).

When I got home I put the bike on a big sheet of cardboard, within 15 minutes this is what I ended up with:





Note this wheel was perfectly clean prior to the 380 miles today. I mean shiny eat off it clean.

View from the bottom up..



And yet this much fluid remains:



It's still just at the bottom of the threads. Maybe a tad low.

Clicky for Full Size Photos

Obviously this thing doesn't hold much. I would imagine this would probably be covered under YES, but I honestly don't have a clue as to where I'd take it.

I also figure this repair can't be _that_ bad or _that_ expensive.

My real dilemma is that I'm supposed to ride the Void Rally this weekend. At the rate at which it appears to be leaking I could easily top it off when I get there, after the rally and then on the way home. Even during the rally if need be since this is so easy to check and do.

It's obviously not going to heal itself.

I'll be OK with giving up my bike for a period of time in the dead of winter but that's still two months away.

Ideas?

How bad is it replacing all the associated seals? Any special tools required? (Checking Service Manual Now)

So can anyone that's been in this thing confirm that you do in fact need the 'special' bearing retainer wrench? Any other special tools?

There are a couple of threads on this out there but I did mine a couple of months ago and didn't use any special tools. The seal on the end of the drive shaft where it plugs into the rear drive requires no tools just brute force. ScooterG posted an excelent write up on doing that one. Mine was leaking from the seal behind the drive coupling. I took it apart with my impact gun and put it back together the same way after adjusting the impact to not over torque. The book indicates that the drive coupling nut is lefthand threads but it is not. The bearing and seal retainer is left hand thread and i used a socket that is designed for the front hubs on a 1/2 ton chevy truck. With a little file work on the socket it works just fine. I also replaced the pinion bearing because it had some play in it but the new one had just as much play so it must be an engineering design. It has been two months and about 6 thousand miles and it is still dry so I guess it will live. PM me if you need more info and I will give you my number so we can converse about it.

Good thing you made it back from the KY ride ok...I would imagine that could get real slippery if leaking around the back wheel.

After searching I've found two of SkooterG's and Radman's posts... I'll order an assortment of seals from UM tomorrow.

I'm hoping it's the same seal that Skooter had go bad, as that seems the easiest of all of them to replace.

Good luck and keep us posted.

..and, for the record, my Harley has NEVER leaked any fluid from the rear drive..

What viscosity oil did you use on your rear drive, carv? :huh:

Joevelocity said:

Good thing you made it back from the KY ride ok...I would imagine that could get real slippery if leaking around the back wheel.

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Hell, if I went on a KY ride I'd be more worried about slipping off of the seat.

Maybe I should have said, my feej thinks it's a BMW?

OK, here's where I am.

Ordered parts from UMotors, but they seals are back ordered. No way it's getting fixed by Friday (start of the Void Rally).

I'm still inclined to ride it out and keep it topped off.

But the folks I'm riding with and others are thinking that I shouldn't risk:

[a] gear lube of any magnitude on the rear wheel, can be slippery.

If this leak gets worse I could do more damage than is worth risking.

 

 


So if this were you... What would you do? I have to not ride this weekend, it will be my last outing of any significant distance this year (pending baby arrival in early Nov).

I hate to admit this, but my bike has been doing this for well over 6k. As a matter of fact, I've done multiple 800+ mile days and other than leaving a horrible mess, I've never seen a problem. I've checked my oil level regularly and haven't had to add a drop. I would personally run the rally with the splooge and fix it after the fact.

Now having said that, I'm planning on ordering all replacement seals for my final drive in the next few days. I plan on tearing down the final drive Nov 3rd and doing a complete check on the system to make sure nothing else is damaged.

I'm sure you're aware...

I ordered every possible o-ring and seal for the rear end... 7 items total with a spare circlip because I'm sure I'll end up sending the original across the garage.

Cost? $27is with shipping, less than half prices quoted locally, but nobody had the parts.

In fact UM said the important ones were back ordered, which begs to question... Is there a problem with these seals we don't know about yet? How come they ran out?

If you want them by Nov 3rd I'd order soon and get in line.

-MD

Hey! You know my offer. I could overnight the one seal (rear coupling). In fact, I would have to check, but I may have both of the seals from the driveshaft side New In Box around here somewhere.

And to clarify. My original write-up was incorrect. I serviced the driveshaft seal which I thought was causing the leak, but it turns out it was the coupling seal that was the problem. Same as FJRay. Here's the more recent thread with updated info. I ain't as handy as FJRay however. From the way it was shown in the service manual, it looked like I needed a special tool. So I had the dealer replace it. It was covered under the 4 year Y.E.S. so no problemo. Since that seal was replaced, no splooge.

I am 50/50 on still riding with it. Mine never leaked as bad as yours. Never even so much as a little drop on the ground. The way it is currently, I wouldn't worry about riding. However, the question is, when will it get much worse, and really start flowing? Maybe never. I wouldn't worry about further damage, as I bet it will be pretty obvious if totally lets go. You will just be stranded at that point. And though you have to be careful, I wouldn't worry about the oil leak causing problems with the rear wheel slipping as the centripetal forces should keep any oil off the important parts of the tire. Unless perhaps, the seal totally lets go and it flows like a river.

I would highly recommend you remove your pumpkin, which isn't all that hard, and first determine which seal is bad. If a seal is good, there is no reason to replace it. You might just introduce a new point of failure by fixing what ain't broke. And if it IS the seal on the driveshaft (which I doubt), there is a good chance you could just service it and take care of the problem. Like I did in my original write- up, HERE.

Good luck. And do you want me to friggin send you that seal?

dcarver said:

Good luck and keep us posted...and, for the record, my Harley has NEVER leaked any fluid from the rear drive..

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My Harley hasn't leaked a drop in 3 years either --

It's easy for me to say as I don't have a leaky final drive nor do we in Sydney have a riding season, All year round is fine..(I wish it would rain)

BUT I wouldn't ride it until the issue is resolved. oil anywhere around a motorcycle tyre is very bad news. it's not only you who may come unstuck due to oil.

As far as damage goes, the final drive as you have said does not hold a geat deal of oil, it also gets very hot as it's a helical bevel gear arrangement which therefore means friction and heat. any lack of lubrication of the bearings which are bathed in oil or the bevel drive will likely result in premature wear, or as unlikely as it maybe failure.

Worst case I you may pit the bearings and/or the gear faces.

I wouldn't risk it, it could get very expensive.

I've had a diff in a car run out of oil and lockup at 70 mph (120km/h) it was nasty, if this occured on a bike you would likely be sliding down the road on your bum or worse.

It's a bike don't risk it.

Received the seals from U-Motors yesterday.

Will be tearing into this in the next week or so, putting on new tires and what not.

After talking with a RoadGlide at the Void, I'm 90% sure I'm simply over filling this thing and it has no where to go once it's being tossed around in there.

I've been filling it to the bottom of the threads. The first couple of changes I actually measured and put in what ever the manual calls for. Apparently where I've been filling it isn't a level as I'd thought and filling it to the bottom is considerably more than what's required but I'll double check that when I fill it next time.

I did end up riding the void, and it leaked like a SOB, to, during and from. But it's still 'full'... (Damn gear lube stinks)

I'm going to clean everything up, add the proper amount and see how things go before changing the seals.

Renegade said:

After talking with a RoadGlide at the Void, I'm 90% sure I'm simply over filling this thing and it has no where to go once it's being tossed around in there.
I've been filling it to the bottom of the threads. The first couple of changes I actually measured and put in what ever the manual calls for. Apparently where I've been filling it isn't a level as I'd thought and filling it to the bottom is considerably more than what's required but I'll double check that when I fill it next time.

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I don't think your overfilling it. You are supposed to fill it to the bottom of the threads. Thats how I, and I am betting, 90% of the rest of us do it.

I pour it in till it comes out......kinda like how I service the engine oil....

of an airplane.

odot said:

I pour it in till it comes out...

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The drawing on 3-33 lower left of the page in the SM shows just that.

Capt. Bob