2011 IBR - The Inside View

[Twigg]

Good luck Glenn...wish I was closer!

...and I don't want to sidetrack this thread any but it seems to me that shaft-drive motos may actually be faring worse that chain-drive motos! When I start asking questions about LD riding one of the standard answers is to get a shaft-drive ride. This does not seem to be the case this week, or am I missing something here?

Dave

Yes, you are missing something. Don't even think of LD riding with a chain drive M/C unless you want to do a lot of maintenance in route. I think it's only a certain, ahem, brand that's having trouble. And the last guy didn't say he had FD problems, to give him some credit. Go to the Standings page and count the number of Honda's (all models) and FJR's compared to everybody else. That should make it clear

Sorry ... This isn't even close to being true!

Accepted, a well set up shaft drive involves less maintenance but ...

A decent chain and sprocket set, with an automatic oiler will go tens of thousands of miles with no more than routine adjustment, which takes minutes.

Additionally, the whole set up can be changed out pretty fast and at modest cost. Shaft drives have their clear advantages, but if they break then, in most cases, you are toast.

Personally, I would choose a shaft drive, but I wouldn't necessarily think that it gave me much of an advantage over a good bike with a decent chain, and a rider who knew how to look after it.

 

[Indian Scout]

Here's a question.

It was brought up after leg 1 scoring that if a rider lost a receipt for a state, they'd lose points, but if the RM's could determine that the rider had been in the state in question, they would not have to go back and get a new receipt and would still be a finisher w/o the receipt.

Wouldn't the same apply if someone got a receipt from the trading post at the four-corners monument? If you went there, could it be reasonably determined that you then visited all four states?

But, is it not a fact, that it has been determined that the monument is quite some distance from the actual location?

 

[user 213]

Jerry is correct. The rally riders need a daylight photo at the for corners marker and they can claim UT, CO, AZ and NM. The park is open from 7am to 8pm.

BS. I was at the start banquet in Seattle. I listened to what the riders were told, and all the questions the riders asked, and those answers. This question was specifically asked, and the riders were specifically told, NO, you couldn't get a picture of the Four Corners Monument, real or tourist, to score those four states. You had to follow the same rules for bagging any other state, an electronic receipt. It was pointed out that electronic receipts for those four states were available "in the vicinity", but not at the Indian run tourist site.

So unless there was a frickin' revelation of the Madonna in Jacksonville and they altered their previous statements, someone is going to DNF because they didn't pay attention. That's gonna suck.

 

[mdisher]

Given that they are well underway, and I doubt any will check here now...

According to my expert arm-chair Rally analysis, the closest possible electronic receipts are in:

Farmington, NM

Cortez, CO

Possibly, south of Blanding, UT

and Kayenta, AZ

I'm almost sure none of those are 24 hours but they *might* be.

Tom Sperry and I discussed this at Chkpt 1, he's been there many times and knows exactly where to go.

I don't think those around the spot are sight seeing.

-MD

 

[user 213]

Local knowledge is king. Tec Nos Pos, AZ has fuel, and a good receipt.

191 can be a fast road back to a big road...

 

[DAK]

Given that they are well underway, and I doubt any will check here now...

According to my expert arm-chair Rally analysis, the closest possible electronic receipts are in:

Farmington, NM

Cortez, CO

Possibly, south of Blanding, UT

and Kayenta, AZ

I'm almost sure none of those are 24 hours but they *might* be.

Tom Sperry and I discussed this at Chkpt 1, he's been there many times and knows exactly where to go.

I don't think those around the spot are sight seeing.

-MD

They'll undoubted spend significant time in at least 2 of these states which will allow for easy receipt access. Cortez and Farmington are larger towns and certainly have 24x7 receipt access. Kayenta will as well and Bluff did the last time I was through there. I'm just gonna have to wait until the end with the leg 3 bonus list comes out cuz I'm a bit surprised by the spots (even though we're only seeing some of them). I really thought Denver and SLC would be high value but most seem to be headed for 4 corners and Denver, at least, is out of the running if you go that way.

 

[Bounce]

Busy day at work today. Just trying to catch up. If this is a repeat, then sorry.

RE: Wallace French's (Rider #37) sent our a broadcast for help on the afternoon of the 29th.

Swapping bikes mid-rally doesn't DQ someone but they do take a seriously-heavy point penalty. In earlier years that used to be 10,000 points. More recently, that was changed to a 25% hit on your final score. Typically that means you have sacrificed your chance of a decent finishing place but, if you meet the other requirements (like documenting all 48 CONUS states), then at least you are a Finisher.

Being a Finisher is a big deal in Iron Butt Rally circles.

Riding a BMW seems to be a big deal too. Just not in a good way.

it seems to me that shaft-drive BMW motos may actually be faring worse that chain-drive motos!

FIFY

 

[Twigg]

Busy day at work today. Just trying to catch up. If this is a repeat, then sorry.

Wallace French (Rider #37) sent our a broadcast for help on the afternoon of the 29th.

Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 19:13:22 -0400

Subject: IBR Rider Needs a Bike

 

Hey everyone. The Texas heat has knocked out my 2004 BMW R1150RT. I am so close to finishing, but need some wheels to do it. I am in Vega TX (40 miles west of Amarillo). I am having the bike towed to Albuquerque. Is anyone in the area of Vega or Albuquerque have a bike I could borrow? All I have to do to finish this thing is ride up to the four corners monument area to get NM, CO, UT, AZ, and then ride to the finish in L.A. Any help would be greatly appreciated. My cell is [redacted]. Thank you.

 

-Wallace

Rider #37

Swapping bikes mid-rally doesn't DQ someone but they do take a seriously-heavy point penalty. In earlier years that used to be 10,000 points. More recently, that was changed to a 25% hit on your final score. Typically that means you have sacrificed your chance of a decent finishing place but, if you meet the other requirements (like documenting all 48 CONUS states), then at least you are a Finisher.

Being a Finisher is a big deal in Iron Butt Rally circles.

Riding a BMW seems to be a big deal too. Just not in a good way.

And uniquely, in this IBR ....

If Wallace gets the States and has done the Four Corners, he gets a Gold Medal Finish .... Penalty or no penalty.

If I were closer I'd loan a bike in a heartbeat.

Hope he gets one.

 

[SkooterG]

But, is it not a fact, that it has been determined that the monument is quite some distance from the actual location?

Reading comprehension. See post #1569.

And find me some something half-reliable that says the four corners monument is not in the correct place. Last I checked, everything I read said it was accurate.

 

[SkooterG]

Given that they are well underway, and I doubt any will check here now...

According to my expert arm-chair Rally analysis, the closest possible electronic receipts are in:

Farmington, NM

Cortez, CO

Possibly, south of Blanding, UT

and Kayenta, AZ

I'm almost sure none of those are 24 hours but they *might* be.

Tom Sperry and I discussed this at Chkpt 1, he's been there many times and knows exactly where to go.

Maybe Tom wasn't at 100%. I have been to all those places too. They are all big enough to have 24 hour gas locations.

 

[velvet fog]

https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30327372/ns/travel-destination_travel/t/readings-show-four-corners-marker/

"according to Dave Doyle of the National Geodetic Survey, the monument marking the intersection of Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico and Utah is about 1,807 feet east of where it should have been placed in 1875."

 

[BwanaDik]

But, is it not a fact, that it has been determined that the monument is quite some distance from the actual location?

Reading comprehension. See post #1569.

And find me some something half-reliable that says the four corners monument is not in the correct place. Last I checked, everything I read said it was accurate.

Nope, sorry Greg, but it's not where it's supposed to be

Four Corners

There's an official USGS publication out there that confirms this but I haven't the time to find it. The original surveyors (1856?) are not as good as GPS. And I agree with the folks above about getting an electronic recept from the actual state. And the locations listed above are pretty much correct (I work in Farmongton a lot)

Edit: Yes, 1875 sounds better, they were probably all a state by that time (certainly not in 1856 duh!)

 

[SkooterG]

Jerry is correct. The rally riders need a daylight photo at the for corners marker and they can claim UT, CO, AZ and NM. The park is open from 7am to 8pm.

BS. I was at the start banquet in Seattle. I listened to what the riders were told, and all the questions the riders asked, and those answers. This question was specifically asked, and the riders were specifically told, NO, you couldn't get a picture of the Four Corners Monument, real or tourist, to score those four states. You had to follow the same rules for bagging any other state, an electronic receipt. It was pointed out that electronic receipts for those four states were available "in the vicinity", but not at the Indian run tourist site.

So unless there was a frickin' revelation of the Madonna in Jacksonville and they altered their previous statements, someone is going to DNF because they didn't pay attention. That's gonna suck.

I am wondering if they changed things. There are an awfully lot of the riders heading to the 4-corners monument. Like 305 below. Lots of other too.

And ok, 'Uncle'! Thanks for the info on the 4-corners location.

 

[John Tubb]

Jerry is correct. The rally riders need a daylight photo at the for corners marker and they can claim UT, CO, AZ and NM. The park is open from 7am to 8pm.

BS. I was at the start banquet in Seattle. I listened to what the riders were told, and all the questions the riders asked, and those answers. This question was specifically asked, and the riders were specifically told, NO, you couldn't get a picture of the Four Corners Monument, real or tourist, to score those four states. You had to follow the same rules for bagging any other state, an electronic receipt. It was pointed out that electronic receipts for those four states were available "in the vicinity", but not at the Indian run tourist site.

So unless there was a frickin' revelation of the Madonna in Jacksonville and they altered their previous statements, someone is going to DNF because they didn't pay attention. That's gonna suck.

And that was the reason for my post back on page 78. If you assume these kind of things then you will get burned. My post was for those that havn't been in these events to take a little peal of wisdown that someone gave me.

 

[Bounce]

Even with proper planning you must have some significant weight lose over the course of the rally,

I lost 20 lbs during Buttlite IIII. I'm 6'0. I was 185 at the start, and 165 when I got home. I drank 4 gallons of water in one day in NV, and saw 120 degrees in Las Vegas.

pretty close to that for me in 03. I lost something between 20-30 lbs but part of that is eating a WHOLE lot lighter. i also had more excess when starting. leg one of '03 saw "official temps" of 110 with a swag of surface temps around 120... with a 3 hour logjam of traffic through Ogden when a tanker truck crashed and burned. 4 gallons of water on leg 1 with no extra br breaks, so the extra was being sweated out.

as for cost... to this day i refuse to run the numbers. i just know it took me more than 5 years to crawl back out of debt. part of that was because i'd just sold my LDR setup '98 GL1500 and picked up a new 03 FJR. i had a lot to do to get it ready. one thing i couldn't afford was aux fuel but the stock range on the FJR was at least equal to that of the Wing with 11 gallons on board.

 

[Twigg]

I am hoping that any riders actually visiting the Four Corners Monument are doing so simply to get a photo for their scrapbooks.

It is very close to the road to a receipt

 

[Ari Rankum]

But, is it not a fact, that it has been determined that the monument is quite some distance from the actual location?

Reading comprehension. See post #1569.

And find me some something half-reliable that says the four corners monument is not in the correct place. Last I checked, everything I read said it was accurate.

Nope, sorry Greg, but it's not where it's supposed to be

Four Corners

There's an official USGS publication out there that confirms this but I haven't the time to find it. The original surveyors (1856?) are not as good as GPS. And I agree with the folks above about getting an electronic recept from the actual state. And the locations listed above are pretty much correct (I work in Farmongton a lot)

Edit: Yes, 1875 sounds better, they were probably all a state by that time (certainly not in 1856 duh!)

From the citation: Doyle says the monument's location has been legally adopted by all the states as the official corner. So, while it may have been wrong when the monument was placed over 100 years ago, the states have all modified their boundaries to fit the monument. Using multiple sources of maps, including Google and Spotwala, a circumnavigation of the parking lot for the monument would put you in all four states in sequence.

Now, as to whether it would be accepted - it seems there are two somewhat contradictory statements being relayed third hand - if one could reasonable be placed in the state through other factors, a loss of a receipt would result in a penalty, but not a DNF. And the other statement is that the 4-Corners being used as proof of 4 being specifically excluded by the rally staff before the start. I would think the latter carries more weight. And, the first statement covers a loss, not someone lying about losing four receipts. Q.E.D.

 

[eddiememphis]

Edit: Yes, 1875 sounds better, they were probably all a state by that time (certainly not in 1856 duh!)

Not quite.

CO-1876

UT-1896

NM & AZ- 1912

The monument was built in 1912.

 

[Bill]

Yes, you are missing something. Don't even think of LD riding with a chain drive M/C unless you want to do a lot of maintenance in route. I think it's only a certain, ahem, brand that's having trouble.

As I recall, Peter Hoogeveen managed 2nd, 3rd, and 7th place finishes with a CBR1100XX and Warchild managed 7 consecutive Bunburner Golds on the same model with a chain drive.

 

[SkooterG]

I know, not the most technical source, but from Wikipedia on the Four Corners Monument location:

In 2009, a spokesperson for the U.S. National Geodetic Survey admitted the monument is placed 1,807 feet (551 m) east of where modern surveyors would mark the point. However, he defended the accuracy of the 1875 survey, stating surveyors "nailed it" considering the primitive tools of the day. Pointing out the achievement given the conditions, he further stated, "Their ability to replicate that exact point what they did was phenomenal, what they did was spot on." He concluded by stating that any claims of errors in the location of the monument are irrelevant. Once a survey commissioned to establish a boundary has been accepted by the involved parties, the survey markers are legally binding, regardless of any error that is later discovered.[11] Similar statements were issued by the Navajo Nation, defending their work in maintaining and promoting the monument.[12] In addition, general U.S. land principles,[13] law,[14] and the Supreme Court have established that the location of the monument is the legal corner of the four states.[15]

And more reading if you are really bored: Clicky.