"Abrupt off/on Throttle Reaction" Rider magazine
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Dj'sFJR
Well-known member
Ditto...Well I've only rung up a few hundred miles on the new toy so maybe I just haven't given it enough time for these things to raise their Ugly head...I'm not sure if it's an early '06 issue with some of the complaints I've read such as the fuel mapping, throttle stiffness, throttle response issues or just some guys are just really, really sensitive riders. I've been riding on the street for 26 years with more bikes than I care to remember and a few I surely don't want to remember...plus 10 years on the dirt before the street.
Yeh I know opinions are like a**holes...but I can honestly say I like the progressive throttle that Yami decided to incorporate in the '06's. Its just a learning curve like anything else...I also don't see any issue whatsoever with the throttle being too stiff on my '06.
I was riding last night and really tried to pay attention to all the complaints I've been reading about with the '06's on the forum. I was asking myself, damn is it really that bad where so many people are doing these mods to "fix" this problem. The surging I can understand would be a PITA issue that I don't have at this time. A PCIII would be my next investment if that was the case but so far so good.
When I was riding last night I "played" with the throttle position many, many times in my 150 mile cruise. Too me it was pretty damn cool to barely crack the throttle to pass cagers in town or on the freeway or heading onto an on-ramp or taking some long sweepers. I was like why would I want to grab a bunch of throttle when I can lightly twist the wrist and accomplish the same thing...?? It feels good to me but apparently not to alot of others...so far I have only one complaint about the FJR. Too much drive train lash...Over all I think some are just more sensitive to things that are just normal to most that have grown up with the idosyncrases of motorcycles. A RollsRoyce its not...for a mass produced motorcycle I don't think it could get much better, bang for the buck, than the FJR...I'll be doing more research on trying to help eliminate the extra drive train lash.
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>>Too me it was pretty damn cool to barely crack the throttle to pass cagers in town or on the freeway or heading onto an on-ramp or taking some long sweepers.<<
It is a fact that the human mind can only deal with 2 or at most 3 things at a time. Just wait until the time you are riding along and you reach your at-that-moment limit of items to deal with and you barely crack the throttle... only to discover that the pavement did not offer enough traction to keep you from going on your ass.
I don't want to sound pessimistic and I sure hope this does not happen to you, but open your eyes to the possiblity that the new bike you bought has a serious but easily corrected ~flaw~.
It is a fact that the human mind can only deal with 2 or at most 3 things at a time. Just wait until the time you are riding along and you reach your at-that-moment limit of items to deal with and you barely crack the throttle... only to discover that the pavement did not offer enough traction to keep you from going on your ass.
I don't want to sound pessimistic and I sure hope this does not happen to you, but open your eyes to the possiblity that the new bike you bought has a serious but easily corrected ~flaw~.
Dj'sFJR
Well-known member
This whole thread seems to be a personal preference deal...I honestly think someone thats been riding/racing motorcycles for 36 years, if put into a sticky situation, can make adjustments on the fly, kind of like a natural reaction to a situation rather than something you have to "think" about then make corrections. I understand totally some people are not comfortable with the progressive throttle and thats fine. As far as me "opening my eyes" to the possiblity of a flaw I just don't see it as a flaw as others do.
When ever I find myself in a situation of being over my head or at the limit, why in the world would I be grabbing ANY throttle?? Thats what your clutch and or possible slight braking is for. I guess it just becomes a natural reaction after riding and racing bikes for so many years that you DO NOT give any throttle, 99% of the time, in a situation where your at the limits of your motorcycle...But as I said earlier I can understand some not being comfortable with the "instant" power off idle. Call me :wacko: I just happen to like it and not see it as a major flaw...Theres a reason Yami decided to make this change. Maybe we can find out from someone in the Yamaha Engineering Dept. to see exactly why this was done, other than what I've read about trying to make the bike "feel" faster than it really is...
Just my 2cts.That was my experience. I bought the PCIII specifically for that reason. If one is using the bike for commuting or relaxed touring it's no big deal. If one is trying to carve corners more aggressively the on/off jerkiness is a major hinderence IMO.
FWIW, with the PCIII (stock map) the bike also lost the breathless feeling it had rolling on hard from low RPM and only suffered a ~2 mpg drop in fuel mileage in the process. A damn good tradeoff if ya ask me. Shame you got pay extra to get it the way it to run the way it should have shipped from the factory though.
The lash you are experiencing is due to the choppy on/off FI characteristics. Spring for the PCIII, you'll be glad you did.
GAPS
Well-known member
I just got back from a brief test ride with the G2, very nice. This is how the bike should have been delivered. With the G2 cam bucking the Yamaha cam down below, seems to give fairly linear response, certainly easier to modulate off idle. Sam at G2 has my vote, the guy has put together a nice farkling piece of kit.
One thing was fairly obvious when I removed the OEM tube, you could adjust its profile to give similiar results, probably do it with a small hand file or dremel pretty easy. If that does'nt work, get a G2, it works great.
One thing was fairly obvious when I removed the OEM tube, you could adjust its profile to give similiar results, probably do it with a small hand file or dremel pretty easy. If that does'nt work, get a G2, it works great.
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Dj'sFJR
Well-known member
I have a PCIII and custom map for my Warrior and yes it made a world of differnce in the performance and smoothed out the entire RPM range. It looks like I may be doing the same with the FJ just to "squeeze" out a few more ponies and smooth out the transition...need to get quite a few more miles on it first though. Like everyone has said I wish Yamaha had done this to start with but I guess ya can't have it perfect straight out of the box...it would be just too damn easy then wouldn't it...
DrBunsen
Well-known member
Whoa - just realized how right you are. I like the G2, but it'd be a really easy hack to whittle that plastic down a bit to achieve basically the same thing. In fact, I'd think that it'd be an easier fix than the FredShim, and way cheaper than the G2.
As for me, I combined changing out the throttle tube with changing grips so I was in for a smidge more work either way.
Advantages of the G2 are that you still have the stock part at resell time, you can go back if you want, and you can buy pre-cut swap out choices that have been tested.
Lastly, the G2 should hold up better to a bar harness.
All those who railed aginst buying a shop manual from the e-bay seller should be along any time now to rip a new one for those who might consider ripping off G2's idea.... tap tap tap
Lastly, the G2 should hold up better to a bar harness.
All those who railed aginst buying a shop manual from the e-bay seller should be along any time now to rip a new one for those who might consider ripping off G2's idea.... tap tap tap
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Fastmax
Active member
Except for the fact that this has already been discussed long before the G2 came along. I already pulled mine apart and took a look at it one night in order to do this exact same thing, based on a post I read here months ago.
I dont think altering the pulley ratio is really "bold new thinking", its just effective.
Roy
Rickster
Well-known member
A few G2 questions:
1) Does the total travel of the grip change (i.e. from shut to WOT is the angle the same, more or less than stock?)
2) Has anyone experienced any AE shifting anomalies or differences with the G2 cam? (the TPS is an input to the YCCS ECU)
3) on their website -- what is the part number? is it the 40-400 for $59.99, or is it the RM-400-900FJR for $39.99 or do you need both?
1) Does the total travel of the grip change (i.e. from shut to WOT is the angle the same, more or less than stock?)
2) Has anyone experienced any AE shifting anomalies or differences with the G2 cam? (the TPS is an input to the YCCS ECU)
3) on their website -- what is the part number? is it the 40-400 for $59.99, or is it the RM-400-900FJR for $39.99 or do you need both?
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RoadRunner
Member
No, travel does not change.
No AE abnormalities.
Order the one that says FJR Throttle Fix
Ari Rankum
NAFO Karting Champion, 2012
I'm willing to concede that the problem with the '06 FJR may be blown out of proportion. But I think the problem must manifest itself in an instance-specific way, given the posts over the last year.
My experience with my '05 was PURE glee. I had no throttle issues at all.
Having read what others write about the '06, I can only conclude that some of us have '06s with major issues, and some of us do not. My '06 is not in the same league as my '05. I get COMPLETELY Irreconcilable differences between two exactly identical inputs delivered in the same circumstances, but at different times on my 06. Any human worth his opposable thumbs can adapt to a wacky system that behaves in the same wacky way every time. Introduce a wacky system that behaves in a random way most of the time, and humans are screwed completely. My 05 did the same thing every time. My 06 likes surprises more than I do.
Most of the time, my '06 does something reasonable with small throttle inputs. On occasion, it jumps the couch. Trying to accommodate "what if something really bizarre happens with throttle response at this crucial point in the curve" really, really limits my ability to squeeze all of the potential enjoyment out of an '06 FJR. No matter how I cut it, this comes out as "BAD".
Yammie? You got anything to say?
My experience with my '05 was PURE glee. I had no throttle issues at all.
Having read what others write about the '06, I can only conclude that some of us have '06s with major issues, and some of us do not. My '06 is not in the same league as my '05. I get COMPLETELY Irreconcilable differences between two exactly identical inputs delivered in the same circumstances, but at different times on my 06. Any human worth his opposable thumbs can adapt to a wacky system that behaves in the same wacky way every time. Introduce a wacky system that behaves in a random way most of the time, and humans are screwed completely. My 05 did the same thing every time. My 06 likes surprises more than I do.
Most of the time, my '06 does something reasonable with small throttle inputs. On occasion, it jumps the couch. Trying to accommodate "what if something really bizarre happens with throttle response at this crucial point in the curve" really, really limits my ability to squeeze all of the potential enjoyment out of an '06 FJR. No matter how I cut it, this comes out as "BAD".
Yammie? You got anything to say?
I rented an 03 or 04 out west a couple years back and have the same recollection. That bike had no on/off lurch that I can recall and felt considerably stronger than my stock '06. The PCIII has done wonders to get the '06 back in fighting condition.
tripletango
Well-known member
I wonder if they have fixed this on your 07?
I ordered one and am also installing a PC111 on my AE. My question is - will the heated grips work with the new tube. I am pretty sure the throttlemeister should be a direct fit but not sure.
The part I ordered was listed as "FJR fix" for 59 bucks.
Now if i can just get that spring off one turn and maybe grip puppies.
sprint_st
Well-known member
Hey trip, why not hire a chauffeur to drive you
We have two problems: uneven fuel delivery and a throttle that is hard to turn. We apply a new cam, and throttle map (why not the Barbarian mod as well??) for the first problem and the cam, spring thing, and grip puppies for number two. Ever consider that some of these things may work against each other???? Me thinks we have too much time and money on our hands in the off season.
painman
Well-known member
Don't forget to keep the idle at 1000+. Many are set below this at the factory. This will help keep any stalls, hesitations, ect. out in the tight turns and when applying throttle. And the way I see it the G2 cam fix would apply most while doing some tight twisties in that the new cam would help eleminate applying too much throttle too quick that could cause some unwanted results as in unsettling the suspension. Otherwise, the setup Yami has is good. PM. <><
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djsmith1000
Well-known member
Sounds like there are two completely separate problems that amplify each other.
1. Inconsistent transitions. This is PROBABLY due to latent fuel left on the port and valve after the injectors are shut off when the throttle is closed to save fuel. Unfortunately, ecu's dont generally pay attention to how long they have been off to my knowledge. When they turn back when you roll on the throttle, the extra latent fuel may of may not be there depending on how long the injectors have been off, and other conditions. When I did calibration for FSAE, I ended up scrapping the fuel shut off almost completely because of similar problems with consistency and poor running. Fix: PCIII
2. Progressive linkage causes large output displacement for small input displacement in certain ranges... in other words, its highly sensitive to the input. In controls this is generally something that is avoided. It is also important to note that the engine has a high sensitivity as it is. So you are multiplying the high sensitivities of two systems - the linkage and the engine. I have no idea why they would put such a linkage on a bike as powerful as this, although i could see why some people like it.
Just my $.02
1. Inconsistent transitions. This is PROBABLY due to latent fuel left on the port and valve after the injectors are shut off when the throttle is closed to save fuel. Unfortunately, ecu's dont generally pay attention to how long they have been off to my knowledge. When they turn back when you roll on the throttle, the extra latent fuel may of may not be there depending on how long the injectors have been off, and other conditions. When I did calibration for FSAE, I ended up scrapping the fuel shut off almost completely because of similar problems with consistency and poor running. Fix: PCIII
2. Progressive linkage causes large output displacement for small input displacement in certain ranges... in other words, its highly sensitive to the input. In controls this is generally something that is avoided. It is also important to note that the engine has a high sensitivity as it is. So you are multiplying the high sensitivities of two systems - the linkage and the engine. I have no idea why they would put such a linkage on a bike as powerful as this, although i could see why some people like it.
Just my $.02
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