FJRF003.0: Ignition Failures on FJRs

[Barabus]

Just had my second ign switch fail ! I had just pulled off the freeway and when the light changed to cross over it I made it about 1/2 way thru the turn & switch died. I got out of the road & found that I could wiggle the wires where they go in the bottom & make contact again but won't stay. Good thing I have quick disconnects on the switch wires. I had under 24K miles the first failure & 15K on the second one.

Okay, this is a whole new level of problem. Two forum members with two switch failures. Yamaha are you reading this? Robert, I know you and have ridden with you so I know you are a stand up guy who takes great pride in your bike. This type of thing make me fearful to take a long trip. The only viable option is to hard wire a switch. Not a real option. Yamaha needs to brainstorm a solution!!

 

[dcarver]

Just had my second ign switch fail ! I had just pulled off the freeway and when the light changed to cross over it I made it about 1/2 way thru the turn & switch died. I got out of the road & found that I could wiggle the wires where they go in the bottom & make contact again but won't stay. Good thing I have quick disconnects on the switch wires. I had under 24K miles the first failure & 15K on the second one.

Okay, this is a whole new level of problem. Two forum members with two switch failures. Yamaha are you reading this? Robert, I know you and have ridden with you so I know you are a stand up guy who takes great pride in your bike. This type of thing make me fearful to take a long trip. The only viable option is to hard wire a switch. Not a real option. Yamaha needs to brainstorm a solution!!

I love it when proved right! (Skooter, you listening? )

 

[SkooterG]

I love it when proved right! (Skooter, you listening? )

Pffffffft!

Mass halucinations, I say!

Actually fruits and nuts boy, I never said there wasn't a problem. So how have you been proved right you hemorrhoid of a dog's ass?

I have simply asked folks not to jump to conclusions when faced with a dead ignition, and do some simple troubleshooting before assuming a 'bad or failed swithch'.

Twice is certainly NOT acceptable in any way, shape, and form. And Yamaha certainly needs to address this. Makes me glad I still have my 'old reliable' 04 FJR.

I am not sure if I remember correctly, but I believe when FJRobert's switch failed the first time, he didn't troubleshoot to determine if it was simply a dirty switch, but went right to roadside hotwiring. If I am correct, we'll never know if his first problem was dirt, or a failure.

 

[bueller]

Okay, this is a whole new level of problem. Two forum members with two switch failures. Yamaha are you reading this? Robert, I know you and have ridden with you so I know you are a stand up guy who takes great pride in your bike. This type of thing make me fearful to take a long trip. The only viable option is to hard wire a switch. Not a real option. Yamaha needs to brainstorm a solution!!

Don't be fearful. Just carry a pocketknife and the knowledge needed to hotwire the bike. And yes, Yamaha should do something about it at this point.

 

[cota95]

Okay, this is a whole new level of problem. Two forum members with two switch failures. Yamaha are you reading this? Robert, I know you and have ridden with you so I know you are a stand up guy who takes great pride in your bike. This type of thing make me fearful to take a long trip. The only viable option is to hard wire a switch. Not a real option. Yamaha needs to brainstorm a solution!!

Don't be fearful. Just carry a pocketknife and the knowledge needed to hotwire the bike. And yes, Yamaha should do something about it at this point.

If you read my posts you realize that you should just be prepared if you take a long trip. When I failed dead I was in NC (I'm from RI) and the dealer down there hotwired a Honda ATV switch in and I had it with me when I made my cross country trip (second failure WY) so I could, or I could have someone else, get me going again. Shouldn't have to do this on a modern bike but at least it gave me piece of mind. I have sent a letter to Yamaha.

 

[ionbeam]

I’m still looking for one or more Gen II volunteers for a tough job When you turn the key off, immediately pull the key out and tell me if the tip of the key is hot. Try this on several different trips, preferably more than an hour long. If the ignition switch problem is strictly mechanical strain pulling the wires out the switch, the key will be ambient temperature. If the problem is dirt, weak spring tension on the switch contacts or assembly issues there will be a voltage drop across the switch contacts resulting in a hot key.

Has anyone had an ignition switch fail while using a key that does not have a plastic head? The plastic head will somewhat heat insulate the key, whereas an all metal key will slightly heat-sink the switch assembly. (Just fishing here, may be nothing to this but it's an easy data point to check.)

I bothers me a bit that in all the pictures I've seen of failed ignition switches it looks like the solder joint has reflowed. I haven't seen broken wire strands or tell-tail signs of mechanical fracturing of the solder joint.

 

[cota95]

I’m still looking for one or more Gen II volunteers for a tough job When you turn the key off, immediately pull the key out and tell me if the tip of the key is hot. Try this on several different trips, preferably more than an hour long. If the ignition switch problem is strictly mechanical strain pulling the wires out the switch, the key will be ambient temperature. If the problem is dirt, weak spring tension on the switch contacts or assembly issues there will be a voltage drop across the switch contacts resulting in a hot key.
Has anyone had an ignition switch fail while using a key that does not have a plastic head? The plastic head will somewhat heat insulate the key, whereas an all metal key will slightly heat-sink the switch assembly. (Just fishing here, may be nothing to this but it's an easy data point to check.)

I bothers me a bit that in all the pictures I've seen of failed ignition switches it looks like the solder joint has reflowed. I haven't seen broken wire strands or tell-tail signs of mechanical fracturing of the solder joint.

You've got a tester. I may not be a good subject since my switch (2) is brand new...

My key has a plastic cap. I do have a spare key in my jacket that is all metal. Do you want me to try that one? When my last switch started failing in WY a couple of weeks ago, I used wd40 spray and after 20 minutes or so it started to work and it lasted for about 1000 miles and 2 1/2 days before it failed again.

 

[kulwen]

Has anyone had an ignition switch fail while using a key that does not have a plastic head? The plastic head will somewhat heat insulate the key, whereas an all metal key will slightly heat-sink the switch assembly. (Just fishing here, may be nothing to this but it's an easy data point to check.)

I use a all metal key without the plastic head. I do not recall the key getting warm before my failure, but the wind would keep it cool.

I will start to look for a temp change at the lower end fo the key.

 

[TexasFJR]

What is the toggle switch tip? connect the brown and red wires?

 

[ionbeam]

What is the toggle switch tip? connect the brown and red wires?

This is a genuine Hacked @ Home help tip on how to hot wire your very own FJR. The toggle switch takes the place of the ignition key switch.

 

[cota95]

Just took a 45 minute trip and checked the key (plastic) at the end and it was not hot, or even warm.

 

[ionbeam]

Cool! (so to speak) That doesn't absolve heat, but it shows that if it is heat, it is confined to a very small area, making the solder connection more suspect than the switch contacts (at least in Cota95s case).

 

[HaulinAshe]

1) What year FJR? 2007

2) How many miles? 21,000, 28,000, 33,000 46,000

3) Failed while running? Or while turning ignition? Or whatever? Failed at Ignition Turned ON, typically after sitting outdoors overnight.

4) Type of failure: Wires pulled out? Switch failure? Unknown? Contacts failed.

5) Actual repair performed and by what dealer? N/A

6) How many days was the bike at the dealer for service? N/A

7) Paid for by Yamaha or not? N/A

8) Non-OEM accessories added that contribute to electrical draw?

Zumo550 and Starcom on Accessory Plug circuit.

Escort 8500 and control relay on Headlight circuit.

No loads added directly to the Ign Switch circuit.

9) What did you do about the other locks? N/A

10) Briefly, how badly were you inconvenienced by this ignition failure? So far, only a few minutes delay while getting the switch operating.

The very first switch failure I had was late last Summer on the 07. Bike had been sitting in an Arby's parking lot for about 1.5 hours, warm day, clear weather. Flipped the switch and nada. Flipped it on/off several times and instruments "hit" momentarily then off. Flipped on with "authority" and everything on.

I've had it happen several times since, especially if the bike sits in rain for long periods. My problem seems to be confined to moisture and dirty contacts. I have noticed the tip of the key getting hot at times. No complete failure yet, but I'm sure as hell crossing my fingers and every other appendage.

 

[Rides Alone]

This is Rides Alone. I too suffered an ignition failure on my '03 Gen1 FJR. I had 20k on it at the time. It failed while being turned on. It was a faulty switch. The dealer replaced the switch. It took two days. I had to pay for it. I took the new and old switch to a lock smith and he swapped the tumblers so that I might continue to use the one key. I was not happy, but I have had worse problems.

 

[bueller]

I bothers me a bit that in all the pictures I've seen of failed ignition switches it looks like the solder joint has reflowed. I haven't seen broken wire strands or tell-tail signs of mechanical fracturing of the solder joint.

I didn't take any pics of mine when I had it apart to re-solder, but I can guarantee there was no reflowing of the solder. I think the more likely answer is that the adhesion of the solder to the metal cup (reservoir) in the switch is poor. This could be caused by the material it is made out of, poor soldering techniques, or both. I was an ASE Master Automotive Tech for 20 years, and have spent the last 6 years in Management in the motorcycle business. I've seen LOTS of solder joints break or separate over the years. The failure of my ignition switch last weekend did not look like anything out of the ordinary. The brown wire broke loose. I debated soldering all of the wires, but I tugged on all of them pretty hard and they were all solidly connected.

Regardless of the cause, Yamaha really should be doing something about this by now. It is only a matter of time before a failure causes a motorcycle to unexpectedly stall with a subsequent crash. I think it's great that people want to reverse engineer the failure and learn about it, but you shouldn't have to. I'd go purchase another ignition switch tomorrow and suck it up knowing my bike is out of warranty, but now that I know the replacement switches aren't any better than the original I just resoldered what would be the point?

 

[Old Michael]

What is the toggle switch tip? connect the brown and red wires?

This is a genuine Hacked @ Home help tip on how to hot wire your very own FJR. The toggle switch takes the place of the ignition key switch.

I've read this whole damn thread, and seen questions asking HOW this is done, but I'm unable to find any specifics, just vague references. I know it's here somewhere, but where?

Brown wire to red wire? Toggle?

Yes, I just encountered the problem today. On the road. In traffic. Could have been bad in slightly different circumstances.

Left me stranded.

I had read this thread a couple of times, so I guessed what the problem was.

After checking all fuses and battery connections, I found that by jiggling the harness where it goes into the bottom of the switch assembly, I'd get power intermittently.

(I did initially just turn the ignition switch on and off "50 -80 times" as per SkooterG and nothing.) Finally jambed a golf tee into the hole. Got power and got home.

Dealers all closed on Sunday of course. I'll update

'06 with just under 25K.

 

[Barabus]

What is the toggle switch tip? connect the brown and red wires?

This is a genuine Hacked @ Home help tip on how to hot wire your very own FJR. The toggle switch takes the place of the ignition key switch.

I've read this whole damn thread, and seen questions asking HOW this is done, but I'm unable to find any specifics, just vague references. I know it's here somewhere, but where?

Brown wire to red wire? Toggle?

Yes, I just encountered the problem today. On the road. In traffic. Could have been bad in slightly different circumstances.

Left me stranded.

I had read this thread a couple of times, so I guessed what the problem was.

After checking all fuses and battery connections, I found that by jiggling the harness where it goes into the bottom of the switch assembly, I'd get power intermittently.

(I did initially just turn the ignition switch on and off "50 -80 times" as per SkooterG and nothing.) Finally jambed a golf tee into the hole. Got power and got home.

Dealers all closed on Sunday of course. I'll update

'06 with just under 25K.

Dcarver's thread contains info on the hot wire fix. See post #1 (this thread) link toward the bottom.

 

[Old Michael]

Dcarver's thread contains info on the hot wire fix. See post #1 (this thread) link toward the bottom.

Thank you. I found it here.

 

[cota95]

I’m still looking for one or more Gen II volunteers for a tough job When you turn the key off, immediately pull the key out and tell me if the tip of the key is hot. Try this on several different trips, preferably more than an hour long. If the ignition switch problem is strictly mechanical strain pulling the wires out the switch, the key will be ambient temperature. If the problem is dirt, weak spring tension on the switch contacts or assembly issues there will be a voltage drop across the switch contacts resulting in a hot key.
Has anyone had an ignition switch fail while using a key that does not have a plastic head? The plastic head will somewhat heat insulate the key, whereas an all metal key will slightly heat-sink the switch assembly. (Just fishing here, may be nothing to this but it's an easy data point to check.)

I bothers me a bit that in all the pictures I've seen of failed ignition switches it looks like the solder joint has reflowed. I haven't seen broken wire strands or tell-tail signs of mechanical fracturing of the solder joint.

I just got a call from the dealer that fixed my last switch. Yamaha wanted to know why I had 2 failures and they asked the dealer to take the switch apart. My failure was a solder joint that had melted and there was some plastic which was causing the switch to not make contact. They wanted to know if I was running some heavy draw lights or anything of the like off the switch. I have a set of Hella lights which I'm running off the heated grip relay. I'm going to the dealer tomorrow to get some pictures of the switch and I will post up when I get back. The Yamaha rep is coming to the dealer next week to look at the switch. Has there been a failure on an 07 or 08?

 

[SkooterG]

This is Rides Alone. I too suffered an ignition failure on my '03 Gen1 FJR. I had 20k on it at the time. It failed while being turned on. It was a faulty switch. The dealer replaced the switch. It took two days. I had to pay for it. I took the new and old switch to a lock smith and he swapped the tumblers so that I might continue to use the one key. I was not happy, but I have had worse problems.

More info please. From what you describe, this could easily be a situation of a dirty switch, but then the wrong conclusions were jumped to.

How do you know 'it was a faulty switch'? What was faulty about it? Was it disassembled and wire/solder contacts were broken?