FJRF003.0: Ignition Failures on FJRs

[ionbeam]

...My ignition key continues to come out "wet" long after I've ridden in the rain. Lately I've been super careful about covering the ignition area whenever I wash the bike. I'm certain that's not where the moisture is coming from....I'm convinced that the weep hole is working in reverse and is the root cause of the problem. The air flow changes in the Gen-II are without a doubt (in my mind at least) forcing water spray and road grime, up and into the switch assembly. This makes me seriously doubt that simple replacement of the switch is going to permanently fix the problem.

A *small* spot of any non permanent putty in the weep hole will take care of that for diagnostic purposes.

 

[flynfjr]

1) What year FJR?; 2006, purchased new 9/2006



2) How many miles?; At the time of failure, approximately 26K

3) Failed while running? Or while turning ignition? Or whatever?; Came out of bank tuned key adn dead. called dealer he sent truck to pickme up.



4) Type of failure: Wires pulled out? Switch failure? Unknown? (pictures are useful); Wires did not pull out was a contact problem adn the spring that holds he plastic up against it was hanging up.



5) Actual repair performed and by what dealer; the dealer Wilson's Motorcycle's in Fresno California intially repaired the existing switch, but 2 weeks latter the problem returned and they replaced it with a totally new switch.

6) How many days was the bike at the dealer for service?; 2 days.

7) Paid for by Yamaha or not? Paid for by Y.E.S.

8) What did you do about the other locks (gas, side bags, seat and top case) on the bike (do you have two keys or one)? I paid my own locksmith to re key bags and gas cap to new key.

9) Briefly, how badly were you inconvenienced by this ignition failure. 2 days x's 2 but all was cool It was my choice to do the intial repair vrs swap out for tottaly new should have just gone with new but just did not want to wait for the part.

 

[Powerman]

06 had ignition problem yesterday, gauges won't sweep on power up. Cycled switch several times, gauges swept and went for a ride. Gauges failed once last year, but still ran.

I've been riding around with an electrical diagram and a splice kit since I first heard of failures.

Anyway, I gathered up some relays for a modification and plan to dissect the switch.

I have a DC amp probe for my Fluke and will post the actual current through the switch.

 

[ionbeam]

I have a DC amp probe for my Fluke and will post the actual current through the switch.

The whole current draw is not straight DC. In the following picture the sillyscope is set for 1 volt/division and the probe is looking at switched ignition voltage. The scope is AC coupled so you can't see the DC component, in this case the very peak is at 14.3 volts and the lowest point (at highest current draw) is around 12.6 volts. Since most DC meters will average the noise, it results in a reading of 13.6 volts. Your DC current probe will do the same averaging, but at least it will be a starting point with a REAL LIVE measurement, the first of its kind.

 

[crazyaboutmy06fjr]

1) What year FJR? 2006 A

2) How many miles? 20,000

3) Failed while running? Or while turning ignition? Or whatever? Failed while at intersection in the middle of nowhere in Pinon Hills, CA ! Just previously I was riding about 10 miles on a dirt-road - finally got to a road, then while sitting in the intersection everything just completely shut down. I use this for my work as a video phone installer so I depend on this bike all the time! Was on my way to a customer's home. Had to reschedule and the customer was NOT Happy! No time for errors! This really got me angry! Tried to find the main fuse, fiddled around, tried everything I could with what I had! Nothing! But I did notice everytime I disconnected the battery, then reconnected, the guages would move (the initial start) then nothing. So I knew it had to be something!

Then finally I gave up and called my friends and had it towed home (100 miles away). Took the bike apart praying it wasn't the alt or the reg/rectifier. turned out those were fine! Went on this FJR Forum, saw the pix of someone hot-wiring the bike - sure enough the strip ties were tight! Cut those, cut through the sleeve, located the brown and red, cut those two, stripped them, used a "bridge" - started right up! that's when I knew the plm was the switch! Grr!

4) Type of failure: Wires pulled out? Switch failure? Unknown? (pictures are useful) - wires were too tight! No free play.

5) Actual repair performed and by what dealer - planning on taking it to Montclair Yamaha, CA per other's on this site since I'm printing this out and showing them.

6) How many days was the bike at the dealer for service? Dunno - waiting for them to get the part first then bring it to them.

7) Paid for by Yamaha or not? Highly doubt it cuz my warranty expired last year.

8) What did you do about the other locks (gas, side bags, seat and top case) on the bike (do you have two keys or one)? I'll accept two keys if have to.

9) Briefly, how badly were you inconvenienced by this ignition failure. VERY! after spending $800 bucks for a tune up and repacking, I'm pissed this had to happen! My job depends on this bike! Heck, since I get paid per mile, and with the rising gas prices, think I'm crazy to use my pick up with a 454 engine for my job? jeez! Now you know! LOL!

 

[SkooterG]

06 had ignition problem yesterday, gauges won't sweep on power up. Cycled switch several times, gauges swept and went for a ride. Gauges failed once last year, but still ran.
I've been riding around with an electrical diagram and a splice kit since I first heard of failures.

Anyway, I gathered up some relays for a modification and plan to dissect the switch.

I have a DC amp probe for my Fluke and will post the actual current through the switch.

Sounds to me like simply a dirty switch.

I have had similiar experiences happen 4 times on my 04 FJR in the last 5 years. Still on the original switch.

 

[HaulinAshe]

A *small* spot of any non permanent putty in the weep hole will take care of that for diagnostic purposes.

I've thought about it, but there is a great deal of logic in having a weep hole. I know that some moisture has to seep past the key in wet conditions, and it needs a place to drain. That's why I have not (yet) plugged the hole.

I'm thinking that what I truly need to experiment with is some type of "cover" over the weep hole so that it creates a negative pressure underneath and actually sucks goop from the weep hole, rather than pressurize the weep hole (as it appears to be now). Something like a tiny hood scoop is what I have in mind, and perhaps JB-Weld(ing) the thing in place.

 

[TILAM]

The service manager called me today and said that yamaha told him I'm on my own as the bike is a year out of warrantyHe then informed me that the price for the switch (hold on) was $417.00 plus install!!!!

I am probably looking at close to $700.00 after taxes.

I'll be left a different key for the gas cap and bags as well.

To his credit he said Yamaha was fed up with him calling about out of warrranty claims for stuff like this.

I asked him to check parts availability and he call back saying that there was only one available in all of Canada. We ordered it.

He gave me the district service manager's number as well as the central number and I called and spoke to the service rep and let her know I was very displeased with the fact that such an expensive part was possibly leaving me stranded on their "premier" touring bike and the way it was running I couldn't trust it on a tour.

She seemed sympathetic and will look into it and get back to me next week.

I mentioned that I have never had a problem with an ignition switch on any of my vehicles including my old 92 FJ with almost 100,000 miles on it.

Let's see what type of response I get.

So I finally got tired waiting so I call the Yamaha Rep again and it would seem they forgot about me. She said she would call me back in half an hour. Wow, she actually did.

But the news is I'm on my own. She said they had spoken to the service manager about it and said that this easy "cheapest" way. Seems she doesn't know much about motorcycles or their products.

I went over my displeasure again but to no avail. Nope wouldn't cover, out of warranty. Even if I had bought the extended warranty, ( $1250 here in Canada) the switch wouldn't be covered.

I vented politely and I'm looking at other options. I wouldn't squak but the price is absolutely outragious.

This will definitely be a factor when I buy my next bike!

(Oh by the way Honda has a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty on the ST 1300)

 

[ionbeam]

...the news is I'm on my own....Nope wouldn't cover, out of warranty. Even if I had bought the extended warranty, ( $1250 here in Canada) the switch wouldn't be covered.

For some reason Yamaha Canada seems to be pretty tough to deal with, you aren't the first one to have this kind of problem. I replaced my defective TPS on my own dime, but when there was finally a recall Yamaha did reimbursed me. Perhaps if there is a recall this could happen for you too, until then it looks like you are screwed. You may want to see if you can find a key switch from a salvage company and have a locksmith re-key it for you.

This will definitely be a factor when I buy my next bike!(Oh by the way Honda has a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty on the ST 1300)

Ya have to vote with your conscience and do what ya gotta do. I don't think Yamaha cares one way or the other what you do (even if 10 of your friends defect to Honda with you). :sadsmiley:

 

[TILAM]

...the news is I'm on my own....Nope wouldn't cover, out of warranty. Even if I had bought the extended warranty, ( $1250 here in Canada) the switch wouldn't be covered.

For some reason Yamaha Canada seems to be pretty tough to deal with, you aren't the first one to have this kind of problem. I replaced my defective TPS on my own dime, but when there was finally a recall Yamaha did reimbursed me. Perhaps if there is a recall this could happen for you too, until then it looks like you are screwed. You may want to see if you can find a key switch from a salvage company and have a locksmith re-key it for you.

This will definitely be a factor when I buy my next bike!(Oh by the way Honda has a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty on the ST 1300)

Ya have to vote with your conscience and do what ya gotta do. I don't think Yamaha cares one way or the other what you do (even if 10 of your friends defect to Honda with you). :sadsmiley:

The dealer called me and left a message to say the ignition switch was in. It seems the $417.00 includes all the bag locks and the gas cap so at least I wouldn't have to deal with multiple keys.

My problem is that it seems intermitent and has never left me stranded but who know when it might. I could possibly ride like this for years with no problem. Were it to happen on a trip into the States the dealers there couldn't get the right part or have the diagnostics to "remap" the ECU as the American bikes don't have the security chip.

Anyone know why Canada and Europe have it but the USA doesn't?

 

[Slardy]

Folks, I think it is about time for everyone who was affected by this problem to file a defect report at the NHTSA here: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

There are only 6 or 7 Ignition defect reports presently on the website. This is a real potential safety issue and I don't think Yamaha should be stiffing FJR owners because the FJR is out-of-warranty for what appears to be a design defect. If enough defect reports hit the website, maybe NTHSA will pressure Yamaha to do a recall.

Slardy

I agree, and my failure is listed on that site. The menu structure of the complaint form was not very intuitive. When I filed my complaint the model listing only had FJR13 under the 2007 model year. I see that for 2006 they split the A and AE into their own categories. Inconsistencies like that will make it tough to process the data going forward, too many key fields that won't match for a search.

I sent a email to NHTSA expressing my concern about all the different models numbers on the NHTSA website a few days back. In my email I expressed concerns that if the ignition problem is scattered over all the different models numbers the problem looks smaller then it really is.

John T,

Excellent work! I was just on the NHSTA defect website and I noticed the same thing (same ignition switch problem/several categories). I would not have thought to call them.

Slardy

 

[hfmadness]

2006

21,000 miles approx.

Stopped at traffic light.

No added electrical accessories.

Failed at the tail-end of a 3 day, 1500 mile trip through the Sierra Nevadas. Did the usual...check all fuses, check battery, turn key repeatedly...nothing obviously wrong. Fortunately, this occured 1 block from Golden State Cycle in Bishop. They pulled the tank up, unplugged the main power connector to the ingnition switch, and jumped the conection to test it and all power came on. They crimped 2 spade plugs onto 2 lengths of wire and plugged them into the connector, taped it all up and ran the wires up to the bars where I could connect and disconnect them as needed. Buttoned everything up and got me on my way in about an hour. I've ordered the ignition switch, but it is backordered, so I added a barrel connector to the wires and just plug them in to ride and unplug when I park. Still needs the key turned to the "on" position to run, so theft is not really an issue.

 

[paste007]

2006
21,000 miles approx.

Stopped at traffic light.

No added electrical accessories.

Failed at the tail-end of a 3 day, 1500 mile trip through the Sierra Nevadas. Did the usual...check all fuses, check battery, turn key repeatedly...nothing obviously wrong. Fortunately, this occured 1 block from Golden State Cycle in Bishop. They pulled the tank up, unplugged the main power connector to the ingnition switch, and jumped the conection to test it and all power came on. They crimped 2 spade plugs onto 2 lengths of wire and plugged them into the connector, taped it all up and ran the wires up to the bars where I could connect and disconnect them as needed. Buttoned everything up and got me on my way in about an hour. I've ordered the ignition switch, but it is backordered, so I added a barrel connector to the wires and just plug them in to ride and unplug when I park. Still needs the key turned to the "on" position to run, so theft is not really an issue.

--Took your solution to my local Yamaha mechanic who called later in the day and said that I can pick up my bike today. Apparently he took a little different action, utilizing a fuse as the connector (and effectively the key?). Nice alternative to waiting until mid-August, the estimated date for arrival of the Main Ignition Key Switch from Yamaha.

--Pretty sad statement for Yamaha that they don't have that part in the U.S., nor do that have it in Japan, which has resulted in them apparently having 11 backorders for this part.

--Last year at the Long Beach motorcycle show when visiting the Yamaha section, I gave glowing reports on the FJR to a few prospective buyers, while the factory rep stood by listening. This October I'm taking the 50 pages or so of responses in this thread with me to present to the factory rep and remind him that the same influence that we as current owners have and which was demonstrated last year, can swing the other way when Yamaha fails to recognize such a problem.

 

[mr.paul]

1) What year FJR?; 2006, new, took possesion 6/2006. I think the date of Manufacture is April, 2006



2) How many miles?; At the time of failure, approximately 20k

3) Failed while running? Or while turning ignition? Or whatever?; While accelerating after a left-turn. Luckily right by my work. Was able to coast down into the parking lot and get it on the sidewalk, out of the way. Could have easily been much worse. I ride a daily commute of 50-70 miles roundtrip.

When it quit, it was all of a sudden. Total loss of electrical. Tried all the same stuff as everyone else first. Could not get anything to happen. There had not been any problems before this.



4) Type of failure: Wires pulled out? Switch failure? Unknown? (pictures are useful); Not yet sure exactly. They just told me that the switch failed. I will be reporting to the NHTSA when I get a better idea.



5) Actual repair performed and by what dealer; Replacement of switch is immenent? Motoprimo in Lakeville, MN. They have always done right by me.

6) How many days was the bike at the dealer for service?; So far, 3 weeks and counting. When I brought it in I asked that they do the recall service as long as it was there. Some brilliant mind there decided to wait for the new ECU before they would look at the bike. This, inspite of me telling them that they should look at the switch right away. I was gone for a week in the middle there though anyway. They told me upfront that they were booked until mid-week the week after the Saturday I trailered it in there. They didn't actually dig into it for a total of 2 and a half weeks.

They now tell me the switches are on a boat from Japan. They should hit the shore soon and he is predicting that the switch may be here by next Wednesday, July 16th. Yah, right....believe it when I see it.

7) Paid for by Yamaha or not? Should be covered fully by Y.E.S.



8) What did you do about the other locks (gas, side bags, seat and top case) on the bike (do you have two keys or one)? The dealership says they will try for "one key".

9) Briefly, how badly were you inconvenienced by this ignition failure. I gave them a bit on this as I figured it would be hard to get the part with so many failures going on. However, this is getting a bit old. I am riding the wife's ST1300 in the mean time. Not bad, but not my FJR.

I asked them if they could patch it for now and I would bring it back when they had the part. They refused and said they want to do the fix right.

 

[tomo]

1) What year FJR? Purchased new in April 2008 (2007 model)

2) How many miles?; approxiamtely 4,000 at the time of failure

3) Failed while running? Or while turning ignition? Or whatever?; Stopped at local Starbucks about 10 mile from the house on the way back from riding in GA mountains

4) Type of failure: Wires pulled out? Switch failure? Unknown? (pictures are useful); No visible damage or loose wires. Simply did not work

5) Actual repair performed and by what dealer; Powersports of Breaselton, GA (Cycle Nation) - bike still there. Waiting for mid August delivery

6) How many days was the bike at the dealer for service?; already a week.

7) Paid for by Yamaha or not? YES warranty

8) What did you do about the other locks (gas, side bags, seat and top case) on the bike (do you have two keys or one)? I had bike towed home first (Saturday) and then towed to the dealeship on Monday morning.

9) Briefly, how badly were you inconvenienced by this ignition failure. I bought bike a primary transportation during the summer. Obviously, now I have to be cager. My plan is to have Yamaha compensate in some manner.

 

[SkooterG]

3) Failed while running? Or while turning ignition? Or whatever?; Stopped at local Starbucks about 10 mile from the house on the way back from riding in GA mountains
4) Type of failure: Wires pulled out? Switch failure? Unknown? (pictures are useful); No visible damage or loose wires. Simply did not work

Did you try cycling the switch a whole lotta times? Coulda been a dirty switch.

Did you try pulling/tugging/moving around wires? It may have started and got you home.

 

[Powerman]

Dissected the switch and had a look. The plastic plate that the contacts are on had broken off on the corner. The contacts look real good and were clean. I re soldered the wires (just because), I noticed the solder seemed to have a high melting point. Super glued the plate, and epoxied it on the bottom and on the wires. I guess the broken piece may have allowed too much play?

I added relays to take the current, placed beside the rear of the glove box.

Ionbeam burst my bubble on measuring the current so I blew it off.

The relays used are plenty big enough.

 

[Brodie]

A *small* spot of any non permanent putty in the weep hole will take care of that for diagnostic purposes.

I've thought about it, but there is a great deal of logic in having a weep hole. I know that some moisture has to seep past the key in wet conditions, and it needs a place to drain. That's why I have not (yet) plugged the hole.

I'm thinking that what I truly need to experiment with is some type of "cover" over the weep hole so that it creates a negative pressure underneath and actually sucks goop from the weep hole, rather than pressurize the weep hole (as it appears to be now). Something like a tiny hood scoop is what I have in mind, and perhaps JB-Weld(ing) the thing in place.

Have you thought about a road draft tube for the ignition switch? If it was good enough to keep the blowby gasses on Detroit's V8's in check years ago, it might work here.

Just a thought.

 

[Crash Cash]

2007 FJR with 7,482 miles. It failed while I was driving straight at about 40mph. The red wire was pulled out, but otherwise was a duplicate of the picture in DailyCommuter's "Reparing Your Ignition Switch" post where the solder had cleanly popped off.

Since the bike is my main ride, I followed his procedure for soldering it back together. Took about 10 hours from start to finish. I didn't want to hassle with my local dealer or rekeying. The bike's bone stock except for a G2-Ergo throttle cam. No electrical accessories at all.

The worst part is it died just after it got dark, and I ended up with no lights in a "sort-of" median in the middle of the road about a foot wide between the turn lanes and the normal traffic. That was not fun with my lights out. I got it running by banging the bars off the left stop, but it quit twice again on the way home, which was about a half mile drive.

 

[mr.paul]

<_<

Update on my ignition failure. I was told Friday, july 18th, that the switches made it off the boat in California. My name is 6th on the list. Yamaha said it should be to the dealer by Wednesday. The service manager told me they are usually here a day or so sooner. So maybe I will see my Feejer middle of next week. That will make 4 and 1/2 weeks plus. Are you listening Yamaha?

paul from Minnesota

1) What year FJR?; 2006, new, took possesion 6/2006. I think the date of Manufacture is April, 2006



2) How many miles?; At the time of failure, approximately 20k

3) Failed while running? Or while turning ignition? Or whatever?; While accelerating after a left-turn. Luckily right by my work. Was able to coast down into the parking lot and get it on the sidewalk, out of the way. Could have easily been much worse. I ride a daily commute of 50-70 miles roundtrip.

When it quit, it was all of a sudden. Total loss of electrical. Tried all the same stuff as everyone else first. Could not get anything to happen. There had not been any problems before this.



4) Type of failure: Wires pulled out? Switch failure? Unknown? (pictures are useful); Not yet sure exactly. They just told me that the switch failed. I will be reporting to the NHTSA when I get a better idea.



5) Actual repair performed and by what dealer; Replacement of switch is immenent? Motoprimo in Lakeville, MN. They have always done right by me.

6) How many days was the bike at the dealer for service?; So far, 3 weeks and counting. When I brought it in I asked that they do the recall service as long as it was there. Some brilliant mind there decided to wait for the new ECU before they would look at the bike. This, inspite of me telling them that they should look at the switch right away. I was gone for a week in the middle there though anyway. They told me upfront that they were booked until mid-week the week after the Saturday I trailered it in there. They didn't actually dig into it for a total of 2 and a half weeks.

They now tell me the switches are on a boat from Japan. They should hit the shore soon and he is predicting that the switch may be here by next Wednesday, July 16th. Yah, right....believe it when I see it.

7) Paid for by Yamaha or not? Should be covered fully by Y.E.S.



8) What did you do about the other locks (gas, side bags, seat and top case) on the bike (do you have two keys or one)? The dealership says they will try for "one key".

9) Briefly, how badly were you inconvenienced by this ignition failure. I gave them a bit on this as I figured it would be hard to get the part with so many failures going on. However, this is getting a bit old. I am riding the wife's ST1300 in the mean time. Not bad, but not my FJR.

I asked them if they could patch it for now and I would bring it back when they had the part. They refused and said they want to do the fix right.