High Output Stators

[BikerGeek99]

I'm an idjut when it comes to this stuff, but I have a question.

Can the stock wiring harness / electrical system handle / cope with / place nice with a higher-output stator?

Would the factory-installed smoke get out of the electrical system?

Just curious.

Thanks,

BG

 

[ionbeam]

...I have a question.
Can the stock wiring harness / electrical system handle / cope with / place nice with a higher-output stator?

Would the factory-installed smoke get out of the electrical system?...

That's a good question!

The only reason to install a high output stator is because farkles have been installed that would over-match the OEM stator output. The electrical farkles should be installed using an ignition switched relay off the battery or be connected directly to the battery. If the farkles are installed this way, the only at risk items are the voltage regulator (R/R), plus the wiring & connectors between the R/R and the battery.

The OEM R/R will handle the extra wattage so it isn't a risk item. Ideally I would like to see the wires between the R/R and battery increased one gauge, and the connectors for these wires upgraded too. The wire/harness upgrade would only be helpful if your added farkles draw all the extra 100 watts nearly 100% of the time.

FWIW, it wouldn't matter to a stock FJR's electrical system if the stator could put out a million watts, excepting the R/R which would care. The amount of current leaving the R/R is determined solely by the loads, if there is no load, no current will flow, no matter what the available current supply is. The only time the wires between the R/R and the battery would carry more current than it was designed for is when added farkles result in total system draw of more than 490 watts.

One term that electrical engineers use is Ampacity. Ampacity is current rating or current-carrying capacity of a wire or device which it can continuously carry while remaining at or below its maximum temperature rating. The ampacity of wiring includes the following modifiers:

* ambient temperature

* the temperature rating of the wire's insulation

* ability to dissipate heat, dissipation can be compromised if the wires are run near the engine or radiator

* the way the wire is made, qty of strands, size of strands, twisting of the strands, etc

* the length of the wire run

* contact with water or oil

Common wire insulating material will be within its ampacity rating in a range up to 60° - 90°C with an ambient temperature of 30°C. The only time the wiring would have to be upgraded is when a voltage drop along the wire is so great that it no longer supplies sufficient voltage and when this voltage drop causes the temperature to rise above the ampacity rating. Example of exceeded ampacity: Gen II ignition switch

Dunno if this helps

Edited to tack on: I will be stopping at Rick's some time at the end of next week, June 24-26.

 

[BikerGeek99]

Dunno if this helps

Sure does!

Thanks!

 

[Meltdown]

Even for a Gen 2 bike more spare watts would be preferable. A BMW K1300GT has 945 watts of output. IIRC, that bike is very similar in size to the FJR. I'd buy an upgrade in a second. The weak output is the ONLY thing about my FJR that I don't like. Even if it cost several hundred dollars, it would be worth it to me to be able to run a full set of heated gear along with extra lights at the same time.

 

[Grumpy]

Anything happen here on another vendor for a high capacity alternator?

jim

 

[ionbeam]

Anything happen here on another vendor for a high capacity alternator?jim

I will be back on it in a couple of weeks. Whatta summer, it rained for 80 days and 80 nights and I've been working 14 hour days.

Right now the plan is to work on the maximum wire gauge with the toughest & heaviest insulation that is still affordable. Next will be to work on creative winding methods. We see how the stocker was done and how the ES was done. We know the weak point of the ES, the challenge is to see if there is anything that can be done better.

The other issue is enough potential sales to make the effort cost effective.

 

[Fred W]

Ion,

I'm not expert in motor or stator windings, but as you know do have some exposure to electromagnets and such. Maybe there is some sort of an insulating process that could be come up with to insulate the windings from each other better? I was thinking like wind a layer on and then spray it with coating, let it dry, then another layer, etc. Sounds tedious...

Or ideally find a wire that comes with a better, more heat resistant insulation already at the right gauge? Keeping the number of turns the same means the gauge and insulation thickness can't vary much unless we decide it'll be OK to have the coils be larger than stock. I wouldn't think doing the winding itself would not be all that tricky, but I suppose it depends on the wire and insulation being used...

Or we could just fit it with a cryostat and pump in some LHe. That's how we do it...

 

[ionbeam]

Just a quick hit 'n run reply on my way out the door.

Winding is hard to do. Tougher insulation material doesn't wind well, the stuff that winds better is expensive. When trying to do dense winding there is a tendency to stretch the wire which kills any advantage of heaver wire.

All the stuff that I do that has high watt density (lotsa watts in a small space) I use various types of potting compounds. Some soft silicones where only thermal transfer is needed and some darn hard compounds when I need to keep heat & vibration from moving things around, with the added advantages of extra insulation and better thermal dissipation. Unfortunately, the hard compound is very heavy, probably too heavy to use on the stator. Our customers refer to our power supplies made with the hard compound as 'bricks'. There is an opportunity to use a polyurethane coating to achieve most of what the hard potting does but that brings us back to $$$$$$$$.$$.

 

[wheatonFJR]

I'm not sure what you guys just said...but as long as you're talking about something it has to be progress right?

 

[Fred W]

Anyone do an autopsy on the stock and/or electrosport stators?

I'm curious what they do to the windings, other than cover them with tape (special blue for e-sport).

 

[Grumpy]

Anything happen here on another vendor for a high capacity alternator?jim

I will be back on it in a couple of weeks. Whatta summer, it rained for 80 days and 80 nights and I've been working 14 hour days.

Right now the plan is to work on the maximum wire gauge with the toughest & heaviest insulation that is still affordable. Next will be to work on creative winding methods. We see how the stocker was done and how the ES was done. We know the weak point of the ES, the challenge is to see if there is anything that can be done better.

The other issue is enough potential sales to make the effort cost effective.

Well, put me down for one!

jim

 

[JDFlys]

I used Google to search Rick's stators on the forum, but only came up with three hits.

Did anything become of this thread? I looked at Rick's web page and it says to call for a quote on a rebuilt stator.

Is anyone running one and does it make a noticable improvement?

 

[Grumpy]

I'm pretty sure that anyone running heated vests on a Gen I would need one of these, given the the ES stuff doesn't hold up.

 

[Duster19]

My ES has 20k on it and I hope to get 30K more.

Dave

PS. I run heated gear and PIAA's, however, not all at once (on full).

Mine runs at 14.2 -14.1 at idle

Drops to 13.6 when I turn on PIAA's

 

[ionbeam]

I will get back on this at some point this spring as my Datel is showing 11.9-12.1 volts at idle and maxing out at 13.6 volts @ 5k rpm with only the engine as a load. This is my second ES stator and I'm not pleased. When it warms up enough that my tools don't stick to my fingers I will have to do root cause troubleshooting.

The end of 2009 at work was all consuming, and since1/1/2010 I'm working 40-50 hour weeks for zero, nada, zilch, zip pay. That doesn't buy many farkles or give me the resources to pay to develop a new stator. I hope this changes but the odds don't look good. At least this keeps me out of the house where my wife is spending the days unemployed.

 

[SkooterG]

Sorry to hear about your tough times Alan. Was wondering why you had been so quiet lately. Wishing you the best for you and your wife.

 

[Patriot]

Sorry to hear about your tough times Alan. Was wondering why you had been so quiet lately. Wishing you the best for you and your wife.

gunny, +1, and ditto

Wish you and the misses the best, Alan...