Lost Power

[un4gvn]

Just because it hasn't been posted on a forum....that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I'm sure this is the reason that the Tech is replacing the wiring harness on his bike.

 

[AIRHEAD#124]

Makes sense!! Will question the Tech at the dealer & see if I can get any info:

Thanks for the INPUT ; un4gvn, did YAMAHA make good

Exactly the SYM of my Bike; Wonder what the Cause is :dntknw:

 

[un4gvn]

Makes sense!! Will question the Tech at the dealer & see if I can get any info:Thanks for the INPUT ; un4gvn, did YAMAHA make good

Exactly the SYM of my Bike; Wonder what the Cause is :dntknw:

Of the bikes that I have seen this happen to...they all had the YES warranty and Yamaha picked up the tab. I have not seen any come though without any warranty, so I cannot speak for them in that case.

I have my suspicions as to the cause, but nothing concrete. Really I need more data to say for sure.

Just 1 quick question.....Do you ride with your high beams on most of the time?

 

[AIRHEAD#124]

Makes sense!! Will question the Tech at the dealer & see if I can get any info:Thanks for the INPUT ; un4gvn, did YAMAHA make good

Exactly the SYM of my Bike; Wonder what the Cause is :dntknw:

Of the bike that I have seen this happen to...they all had the YES warranty and Yamaha picked up the tab. I have not seen any come though without any warranty, so I cannot speak for them in that case.

I have my suspicions as to the cause, but nothing concrete. Really I need more data to say for sure.

Just 1 quick question.....Do you ride with your high beams on most of the time?

YES I Do & I've noticed a hesation in the Power when I flict the High Beams on & off before I lost Power. Dealer didn't say much except that YAMAHA would replace . Glad I Have Y E S

1st the ECU

2nd Ignition

3rd Wiring Harness

getting to be afraid Whats Next

 

[un4gvn]

Makes sense!! Will question the Tech at the dealer & see if I can get any info:Thanks for the INPUT ; un4gvn, did YAMAHA make good

Exactly the SYM of my Bike; Wonder what the Cause is :dntknw:

Of the bike that I have seen this happen to...they all had the YES warranty and Yamaha picked up the tab. I have not seen any come though without any warranty, so I cannot speak for them in that case.

I have my suspicions as to the cause, but nothing concrete. Really I need more data to say for sure.

Just 1 quick question.....Do you ride with your high beams on most of the time?

YES I Do & I've noticed a hesation in the Power when I flict the High Beams on & off before I lost Power. Dealer didn't say much except that YAMAHA would replace . Glad I Have Y E S

1st the ECU

2nd Ignition

3rd Wiring Harness

getting to be afraid Whats Next

Quite a few things get their ground at that particular junction. The headlights are one of them. From what I have seen, the people that have this failure typically ride with their high beams on most of the time. I do not think that this junction can handle that type of current load over long periods of time (tens of thousands of miles). Another of the componets that gets its ground through that junction is the fuel pump. <----So you can understand why there could be a performance issue once the ground junction is burnt/damaged.

Like I said....I really don't have enough data to say that is whats causing the failure, but I've seen enough to make an educated guess.

I had my 06 (70,000 miles) on the lift today to replace the spark plugs, and decided to check the ground junction out. Mine is perfectly fine, and I almost never ride with the high beams on (like being stealthy I guess). On another note, I did decide to check the compression while the plugs were out and the bike still has the same readings as I got at around 8,000 miles! She's a keeper.

 

[dcarver]

OK, I think the un4gvn one may be one to something. I actually posted up months ago about a werid electrical problem with krzy8 (06A, ridden daily, 60k+) where the bike would seriously hesitate when turn signals were activated. Could this be the same grounding issue? I'll try to find the post..

Un4gvn, any chance you take some quality pix of the connector next time an FJR comes your way? Is the junction externally grounding all wires or is it a 'bullett' connector with all the various grounds in one 'crimped' connector with one last wire making ground to frame? Or?

edit - "Hence the crazy flaser and high beam indicator lights that usually illuminate." YES, this is exactly what happened!

Found my original post -

Facts:


Last two 0'dark-thirty mornings, approx 55 degrees F, less than 1 mile on pavement after 3 mile dirt road. Engine dies when headlight switched from lo to hi, turn signals turned on, emergency flashers or brake light applied. Engine cranking speed is normal and immediately fires at restart. Failure could be repeated for approximately 3 minutes. Did not 'cycle' the ignition switch. During the 3 or so minutes, I toggled hi/lo beam, emergency flashers, engine cut out switches. Both days, it just all started working again and, in SkooterG fashion, I just kept riding, another 45 minutes to work. Systems worked normally. No problems experienced so far for the afternoon ride home (~75 - 90 F) Both failures occurred in early morning, approximately same location and temperature (~55 - 60 F) 2006 'A' model, ~65K, Solteks with AutoSwitch, Blue Seas distribution center powering Radar, GPS, heated vest.
I think that: (Need to verify)

 




Cluster lights dimmed or went out. I recall yesterday seeing both turn signal indicator lights dimly lit, like a low battery or poor ground. Not sure about running lights. Alternator/regulator output appears normal - at max current draw (hi beams + Solteks, emergency flashers, rad fan running, brake light on) the headlights don't dim at idle or brighten with rpm. Battery 'stress' test (hi beam + running lights + engine fan + brake light) for one minute, bike cranks normally, fires immediately. I smelled something 'electrical'. I know the smell, but have a lousy sense of smell. No smoke I could see (dark).Troubleshooting Plan  




Measure battery voltage bike dead, idling, 4K rpm using various loads. Check battery connections for cleanliness/tightness. Measure battery negative to frame ground. Check fuse connections. Wiggle wires at ignition switch, try to repeat failure. Check connection at ECU and alternator. Ask the gurus on FjrForum.com!Any ideas? Anyone else experienced this?  


TIA,

 


Signed, 'Scared of the dark dCarver'. "

All of a sudden, Barry, I'm REALLY interested in YOUR problem! :blink:

 

[un4gvn]

I don't have any real quality photo's of the connector, but I took a better picture of it's location while I had mine apart today. This thing is about 3/8" square and all it really consists of is a 6 or 8 pin plug, with a staple like jumper shorting all the pins together, with a black plastic cap over the top to protect it.

A bunch of grounds join to a seperate wire that goes back into the harness and eventually to ground somewhere.

 

[dcarver]

I don't have any real quality photo's of the connector, but I took a better picture of it's location while I had mine apart today. This thing is about 3/8" square and all it really consists of is a 6 or 8 pin plug, with a staple like jumper shorting all the pins together, with a black plastic cap over the top to protect it.A bunch of grounds join to a seperate wire that goes back into the harness and eventually to ground somewhere.

So, if a feller was having intermittent problems, he could re-engineer it all with a quality shorting bar and separate ground going directly to the frame? Next time the tank is off, I'm looking at this connection..

THANKS for your post, un4gvn! :clapping:

 

[un4gvn]

In theory...Yes. However, I have not done it that way to any of the bikes in question. They all had warranty and Yamaha paid to have a new harness installed.

I just pulled the old harness out of the back room (we have to save old warranty parts for 90 days). I took some pictures, I will post pics here in a few minutes.....

 

[un4gvn]

Ok, the first picture is of another one of those junctions...there are several of these in various places in the harness, but only the one I pointed out earlier tends to have problems. This picture is just to show you what one should look like:

The second picture here is of the damaged one that causes all the problems. It is missing the black plastic cap because it broke and came off in about 20 pieces when we tried to remove it. It was melted anyways and very brittle:

 

[TILAM]

Oh great! I'm just getting the ignition switch sorted out and now this new electrical gremlin rears it ugly head.

I always ride with the high beams on so I guess I now investigate this while I'm in there.

 

[dcarver]

Oh great! I'm just getting the ignition switch sorted out and now this new electrical gremlin rears it ugly head. I always ride with the high beams on so I guess I now investigate this while I'm in there.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions.. To my knowledge, there have only been two instances posted on this board regarding this particular behavior.

Then again, I was one of the first, if not the first, to experience an Ignition Switch Failure, so one never knows the extent or magnitude of one or two members posting of a problem.

Then again...

Since I've had EXACTLY the same problems experienced by AirHead#xxx, and U4gvn has seen this problem on several Feejers, you can bet the farm that I'll be looking into my wiring harness ASATTIL (as soon as the tank is lifted) because my problem 'magically' went away.. and I know that magical cures always end in most inopportune failures..

 

[Shane Stump]

Airhead #124,

I thought my problems were solved today when my father drove me 120 miles to Austin to pick up my bike.... they weren't!

Let's just say after I get my bike back next weekend (and I pay $420 to the dealer to have ALL my electronics removed from the bike (per Yamaha's instructions or they weren't going to APPROVE my my warranty work), I am done with Yamaha.

According to Yamaha, all the electrical problems many of us are having are because of the 3rd party electronics. If you have them on your bike and develop problems, Yamaha is going to AUTOMATICALLY blame them even without any formal proof.

Since Yamaha can't tell us exactly what was causing my electrical problems, my wife doesn't want me on the bike.

I will be back on a Honda GL1800 by summer time when I get a chance.

Best Regards,

Shane

 

[AIRHEAD#124]

Shane; I understand completely, when you LOSE Confidence in your Bike; you will NEVER feel Relaxed Riding it.

Dealer still has my Bike (awaiting Harness) I'm awaiting YAMAHA to drop me a BOMB & bill me.

Mean while I'm ENJOYING my 20yr BMW Boxer Twin R100RT (60hp) crusing at 75-85mph COMFORTABLY & 45mpg

 

[Khunajawdge]

Wow! After reading all of this thread, there does seem to be a problem with running high beams and a weak ground.

Just wondering?? Wouldn't switching from Quartz Halogen to HID headlights, cut the demand for a heavier load of current, thus putting less tax on the grounding plug in the harness? HIDs put out a lot more lumins after they power up, and end up using less current to sustain the lights once they are lit. I understand that there is a problem in switching from high to low beam with HIDSs?

Maybe add this to the "wish list" for a re-designed/upgraded 2010 model?

 

[Shane Stump]

Shane; I understand completely, when you LOSE Confidence in your Bike; you will NEVER feel Relaxed Riding it.
Dealer still has my Bike (awaiting Harness) I'm awaiting YAMAHA to drop me a BOMB & bill me.

Mean while I'm ENJOYING my 20yr BMW Boxer Twin R100RT (60hp) crusing at 75-85mph COMFORTABLY & 45mpg

It is even worst... I have lost complete faith in Yamaha.

Even the dealer's service manager mentioned while on vacation, he stopped at the old shop he used to work for and they have 2 early Gen II FJRs with electrical problems.

After I am done and haven traded / sold my bike, I will be sending a long letter to Japanese Yamaha management on this matter.

I am really PISSED now.... I will NEVER purchase another Yamaha product as a warranty is only as the company behind it.

I just wanted Yamaha to fix my bike and get me back on the road ... I didn't raise an issue that I could have been killed if I had been on the highway when my bike completely lost power because of the ignition switch (my wife with breast cancer wasn't very happy with the incident).

Any how, since the Yamaha Texas rep wants me to take suck it up financially with my bike, I figure I will return the favor.

I will be telling EVERYONE about my experience with my 2006 Yamaha FJR1300AE POS!!! And the sad part, they could have kept me a very happy Yamaha rider... but they didn't care about me or my family!

Best Regards,

Shane

 

[turbodave_98]

Ok, the first picture is of another one of those junctions...there are several of these in various places in the harness, but only the one I pointed out earlier tends to have problems. This picture is just to show you what one should look like:

The second picture here is of the damaged one that causes all the problems. It is missing the black plastic cap because it broke and came off in about 20 pieces when we tried to remove it. It was melted anyways and very brittle:

Another FJR, an AE no less succumbs to the dreaded "prince of darkness" syndrome. The above failure is exactly what happened to my 06 AE last Easter Sunday while coming out of Death Valley 36 miles North of Baker CA. All the symptoms described in this thread happened to my 06 bike which has appx. 50k miles and had three (3) ignition switch changes. I truly loved the 05, which was not failure prone at all and the 06 AE(which is often down for electrical issues) a jot. But I am getting gun shy of the 06AE as I am approaching a very difficult multi-day rally starting this summer. I am notified my dealer will replace the electrical harness under YES warranty. More later. :lol:

 

[Geezer]

Let's just say after I get my bike back next weekend (and I pay $420 to the dealer to have ALL my electronics removed from the bike (per Yamaha's instructions or they weren't going to APPROVE my my warranty work), I am done with Yamaha.
According to Yamaha, all the electrical problems many of us are having are because of the 3rd party electronics. If you have them on your bike and develop problems, Yamaha is going to AUTOMATICALLY blame them even without any formal proof.

Sorry to hear that you are not enjoying your FJR. I understand your decision completely.

It sounds like Yamaha responded to our request for more electricity for farkles by increasing the wattage and, now that people are actually using that extra output and finding the wiring inadequate, Yamaha is not standing behind the product. There is no excuse for wiring harness components to melt. Properly designed wiring, connectors, switches and fuses should prevent these problems. No matter how many farkles are added the fuses should protect the wiring.

 

[Shane Stump]

Let's just say after I get my bike back next weekend (and I pay $420 to the dealer to have ALL my electronics removed from the bike (per Yamaha's instructions or they weren't going to APPROVE my my warranty work), I am done with Yamaha.
According to Yamaha, all the electrical problems many of us are having are because of the 3rd party electronics. If you have them on your bike and develop problems, Yamaha is going to AUTOMATICALLY blame them even without any formal proof.

Sorry to hear that you are not enjoying your FJR. I understand your decision completely.

It sounds like Yamaha responded to our request for more electricity for farkles by increasing the wattage and, now that people are actually using that extra output and finding the wiring inadequate, Yamaha is not standing behind the product. There is no excuse for wiring harness components to melt. Properly designed wiring, connectors, switches and fuses should prevent these problems. No matter how many farkles are added the fuses should protect the wiring.

Geezer,

Thanks!

It actually had a HAPPY ENDING for me!

After getting the run around from Yamaha stateside, I sent an unemotional (well, I tried) request to corporate Yamaha detailing my experience. While I didn't personally hear from someone in Japan, I DID HEAR FROM THE TEXAS REGIONAL TECHNICAL REP and he assured me that my AE would be fixed ASAP.

A week later, they hauled it to me (~100 miles) FIXED!

While the regional tech couldn't say for 100% sure what my problem was, he was 99% sure that it was my CCS-100 Audiovox cruise because it had 4 wires going into the ECU (I had two ECU failures).

Any how, a week later I ordered and had a friend install a McCruise for me (it doesn't hook into the ECU at all) and I have since rode for about 3,000 problem free miles!!

So, for all my ranting-and-raving, Yamaha corporate came through for me!

Best regards,

Shane

 

[BkrK12]

I reported this problem last Fall and the resolution (with un4gvn's help) about a month ago. In my case, one of the pins in that connector was broken, and could be fixed. This connector sits in an area where cooling air, and whatever other elements are present, is blown in on it. In addition, it isn't fastened down so it can blow and vibrate around placing fatiguing stress on the connections. You can actually put your fingers on the connector from outside by sliding your hand into the opening just under the front of the frame, by the lower steering bearing. You will be able to feel it move. If you suspect that is a problem, raise the tank and remove the heat shield, you can then get at the connector to wiggle it around. I was able to duplicate the failure by doing that and point the dealer's tech right at the problem. After mine was repaired, we sealed it up and bound it to the wiring harness to stop it from vibrating around.