Mt. Baldy = no rear brake.......

[LgFJR]

Being here in SoCal I decide to try out a helmet cam idea a week ago and run up to Mt. Baldy. Warm day in the 80's. I'm going all the way to the top where the ski lift is, just for kicks. All who are familiar know about the wicked off camber switch backs towards the top.......where 15mph might just be optimistic. I abused the brakes going up the hill, took a couple of quick photos at the top and headed back down. With a full tank of gas I must be pushing 900+ lbs all up bike weight. Bunch of kids standing around throwing rocks about a half mile down the hill, I gun it a little for effect just to let them know they are looking at a big bad Yamaha. I go sailing into the first few turns and all is right with the world. I then start hitting the switch backs, I'm now really abusing the heck out of the back brake, and at about the third one the pedal goes to the floor. I could literally push the pedal down a couple inches below the normal spot. I'm not talking weak braking here, I'm saying the back brake hung out the gone fishin sign and there was nobody home. Scared the tar outta me. Kicked it down a couple gears and the front was still good. Grannied it the rest of the way down the hill, and stopped at the restaurant parking lot. I really thought the line had blown out. In 45+ years of riding this was a first for me, and was all the more astounding because the FJR is normally flawless in everything. My bike is a 2005 with 20K on it, and obviously the fluid has not been changed. It will be real soon.

I did the search and now I know like the beer commercials....."It's the water baby".......... :blink: . water boils in the lines....

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...aded+rear+brake

Shared experiences are what its all about......apparently most of the forum already knew this, I didn't and maybe there's another few that don't know it can happen, and it could get real ugly two up. All the more surprising because I've ran all over the mountains of SoCal and the brakes never gave a hint of fading because of cool down between curves. Palomar, Big Bear, all no problemo. If you've got an older Gen 1, even if the fluid looks good like mine does, ya better dump it and get a fresh fill if you think you're going to be abusing the binders.

 

[user 213]

Changing the brake fluid every season doesn't hurt, but you really should do it every two years at minimum. After two years the fluid is pretty contaminated and the boiling point much lower than fresh.

So LgFJR - Why so much back brake? The front does most of the work. And what's with the uphill braking? Just hot rodding for the camera & having some fun?

 

[Draggon Rider]

Changing the brake fluid every season doesn't hurt, but you really should do it every two years at minimum. After two years the fluid is pretty contaminated and the boiling point much lower than fresh.
So LgFJR - Why so much back brake? The front does most of the work. And what's with the uphill braking? Just hot rodding for the camera & having some fun?

The same thing happened to me ridding two up in the Hills fo Malibu, scarry stuff! Fortunately I had read a post a few days earlier about this problem, so I didn't panic. Replaced the fluid as soon as I got home.

 

[LgFJR]

Changing the brake fluid every season doesn't hurt, but you really should do it every two years at minimum. After two years the fluid is pretty contaminated and the boiling point much lower than fresh.
So LgFJR - Why so much back brake? The front does most of the work. And what's with the uphill braking? Just hot rodding for the camera & having some fun?

Oc.......yep I was just messing around goosing it a little on the way up a good video. I normally don't trail brake a lot, but there was mucho gravel in the switchbacks so I was favoring the back for that reason. I'll admit this will be a rare occurence never seen by 99.8% of Feej drivers.......but it's IMO worth knowing that with just some benign neglect and a couple of conditions it can happen. Water, big hill, mix liberally with extra trail braking and a hot day and you too can go sailing over the cliff......

As soon as the brakes cooled down a little they came back to full strength. Which would be a little diabolical for the forensic investigators. They could fish your bike out of the creekbed and the brakes would be working perfectly.

Bought a complete set of brake shoes on the way back from the hill. As soon as I got back I pulled the caliper and the brake shoes were only about half worn, so I left them in for now, will change out next tire. The brake fluid was full to the top and didn't look that dark.

I now have an entirely new respect for changing the Dot 4, and will do all 3 of my vehicles asap...............

The dangerous part of the whole deal is the lack of warning.......one turn the brake is working.......the next it's completely gone.........

 

[user 213]

The dangerous part of the whole deal is the lack of warning.......one turn the brake is working.......the next it's completely gone.........

Yes, can be quite the wake up call. BTDT on the race track.

 

[DJB]

I replaced all my brake lines, and clutch line last year. Switched to synthetic fluid. Life is good. :yahoo:

 

[FJRBluesman]

Must have been lots-O-water in the line. Thankfully I have never had an issue like this, not sure why one would, especially running DOT4 or 5. I've never had my brakes suddenly fade like that. You must be abusing the crap out of them. Are they dragging, etc? Usually DOT5 has high amount of silicone in it and draws water, synthetics don't do that. I still use regular ole Fred's Auto DOT4-5 brake fluid, no issues.

Plenty of two-up riders here in SoCal really attacking the curves, I've never heard of any of them having brake issues like that. Is the bike from back east or midwest, high humidity?

 

[supertankerm60a3]

I had a rear brake fail on my K100RS all at once while chasing a 600cc canyon racer. OK, I was on him like a cheap camp trailer and we were on a closed road. I go to step on the brake and on resistance, nothing, the pedal went all the way down. I thought that I had burst the line. After 10 miles of riding, the brakes came back. I haven't rode it much since but I still need to bleed the rear brakes.

 

[dcarver]

Fully appreciate the honesty in this post -

Now then, for science, after changing the fluid go back and repeat the experiment?

 

[boostman]

Could be as simple as needing to clean and grease you pedal pivot shaft. My '04 rear faded due to a slight drag that heated up the system and then total fade till it cooled down. Cleaned and greased the shaft with no bleeding and worked ever since.

Figured it out from past postings. :scooter:

 

[3dogs]

Oc.......yep I was just messing around goosing it a little on the way up a good video. I normally don't trail brake a lot, but there was mucho gravel in the switchbacks so I was favoring the back for that reason.

Learn to use the front brake to trail brake and don't rely on the rear so much. With only a single disc (smaller diameter than the fronts) the rear brake does not have the stopping power that the front does. A class that may help you is Total Control, levels 1 and 2 where they teach how to trail brake using the front, rear or both brakes.

 

[SwollenRaccoon]

Yup, what others have said. Like Reg Pridmore said at a track day I attended, "The rear brake can be your friend, but the front brake is your BEST friend". Rarely use my rear brake, except when really pushing things, or on the track. Make the front brake a habit, and it could save your bacon someday.

 

[Sharif]

Rarely use my rear brake, except when really pushing things<snip>Make the front brake a habit, and it could save your bacon someday.

+1 on that! Be cautious, as always - the only time I flubbed and dumped under braking was going into a toll booth years ago on my old Nighthawk, primarily b/c I practice front-brake-is-best. Stupid mistake, I was focused on the next 200 miles instead of the next 20 feet, because I was in the center lane position. Even a noob idiot knows that's where all the crap and oil from cars drops...anyway, light braking, getting the IPASS out, front locks on oil, down I go. Nothing damaged and I wasn't hurt, even the laptop was fine. Got my ticker going in overdrive for a couple minutes, though!

Not as much an issue w/ ABS on the FJR, but just a reminder - be careful at toll booths!

-Sharif

 

[Bugnatr]

I did the same to my real brake on a KLX 650 years ago before I knew to use mostly the front brakes. Rode with a guy who did it to a new DR650 a month ago while descending a steep downhill dirt road. It suspect it can be done with any rear disc brake regardless of age of fluid.

 

[redtail]

This happened to me,as well! I was chasing my nephew on a FZ1 up Latigo Canyon in Malibu.

I was feeling a little off anyway and not riding as smooth as I wanted. It was also pre- new suspension,old fluid, and half worn pads! So a combination of hard braking, not the best lines and too soon/hard on the throttle... all of a sudden I get stood straight up and I'm heading for the edge of the cliff. I locked it up and got stopped, but not before crossing into the oncoming lane (thankfully empty). Then, after checking to see if I had pissed myself, when I tried to use my brake on the next turn there was nothing! I nursed it along with only the front, caught up with my nephew.

It came back by the time I got home, but it's taken new brakes, fluid, suspension and a year of riding to get my confidence back. I've also relaxed about trying to push this heavier bike through the canyons as fast as a fearless 20 year old on a FZ1!

Time to improve my braking skills, if I intend to keep enjoying this machine!

 

[Crash Cash]

I'll bet the altitude change didn't help either, as it'll cause the boiling point to be even lower than it already is at sea level.

 

[LgFJR]

Ok I've changed the fluid to synthetic valvoline. Thanks for all the replies.........and a few who have experienced the same thing. I bought my bike from a multi millionaire in Belmont Shores.......(by Long Beach).......could have picked up some of that night and morning ocean moisture in the lines. I'm quite familiar with front and rear braking, and the 60/40 differential in force.

Have to admit to not following a reasonable fluid change interval, and this is a high performance machine that is as close to maintenance free as you can get.........but still the basics should be done........and I failed in that. Furthermore the conditions were rather extreme, and a slight change in my scenario would have prevented the fade. A hot day, full tank, and no cool down time for the brake all contributed. Had I taken a normal ten minute break at the top of the mountain it wouldn't have happened. Had the switchbacks not all been a hundred yards apart it would not have happened. I love the brakes on the FJR and would have sworn there was no scenario this could happen before this incident.

All those talking front braking on this hill most likely have not seen it or ridden it all the way to the top. The switchbacks I'm talking about almost double back on each other, with extreme camber changes. In addition there is fine gravel and dirt in the turns. These are a few really wicked turns on a steep down hill section, a really nice brake testing spot as it turns out.

Changed the fluid and the brakes are as solid as a rock now, full confidence this won't be happening again.........

Lg B)

 

[Phugedaboudet]

had this happen to me after a spirited run up and down Mt. Diablo and on the backside of "The Wall" on some rather goaty switchbacks. Talk about a brown-shorts moment when the pedal simply drops and you're trying to scrub speed to avoid doing a "Thelma and Louise" over a picturesque Bay Area canyon.

Kinda puts a damper on remaining spirited riding for the day lol

so when i had the pads replaced in February I had em flush and bleed front and back.

 

[TestPilot]

Could be as simple as needing to clean and grease you pedal pivot shaft. My '04 rear faded due to a slight drag that heated up the system and then total fade till it cooled down. Cleaned and greased the shaft with no bleeding and worked ever since.Figured it out from past postings. :scooter:

Like Bootsman said, the pedal is prone to sticking if not kept clean, and the drag can cause you to lose the rear brake quickly with heavy use. I have the practice of not using my rear brake for the last few hundred metres of a ride, then immediately checking the disk temperature. This is the easiest way for me of checking for a sticking pedal.