need electrical advice

[lnewlf]

So I want to power my garage with a generator when the grid goes down. The plan is to run a cable from the generator to the 240 volt 50 amp three prong outlet where the welder plugs in. The generator has a 240 volt four prong L14-30R outlet. Two prongs put out 130 volts each-one prong is ground [earth]-what the hey is the other one for and what do I do with it if anything? Help is appreciated..

 

[ionbeam]

Oh man, taking electrical advice from the Forum? Hope you have home owners insurance. Even if 'Bust comes along and tells you that you have two power feeds, a ground and neutral wire would you take his advice and wire your electrical system that way?

 

[lnewlf]

Um prolly not , considering what kind of hookups he allegedly prefers.. Anyhew, since I need to go from four conductors to three somehow, which do I drop-the neutral or the ground or doesn't it matter?

 

[Geezer]

Um prolly not , considering what kind of hookups he allegedly prefers.. Anyhew, since I need to go from four conductors to three somehow, which do I drop-the neutral or the ground or doesn't it matter?

It matters.

Are you saying that your generator only has three wires? If so then it would be two hot and one neutral. I would check the documentation that came with the generator.

 

[lnewlf]

The generator has four wires- that is to say, the outlet on the generator is a four conductor. What I want to connect to has three wires-two hot and a neutral. I need to know if I can drop the neutral or the ground.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

The generator has four wires- that is to say, the outlet on the generator is a four conductor. What I want to connect to has three wires-two hot and a neutral. I need to know if I can drop the neutral or the ground.

I gotta agree with ionbeam, you are really treading on dangerous ground getting electrical advice from the forum. Then, whoever gives you advice is going to get a dogpile of folks who nitpick whatever he types in an odd game of one-ups-manship.

Therefore, I have a question for you. Are you SURE that the welding machine has two hots and a neutral?

 

[SLK50]

Ground is never part of a circuit.

It exists outside of any current flow.

You could probably ground the generator separately,

to earth via something like plumbing using a jumper cable.

 

[lnewlf]

The generator has four wires- that is to say, the outlet on the generator is a four conductor. What I want to connect to has three wires-two hot and a neutral. I need to know if I can drop the neutral or the ground.

I gotta agree with ionbeam, you are really treading on dangerous ground getting electrical advice from the forum. Then, whoever gives you advice is going to get a dogpile of folks who nitpick whatever he types in an odd game of one-ups-manship.

Therefore, I have a question for you. Are you SURE that the welding machine has two hots and a neutral?

Yep- two hots and a neutral-240 volts..and in any box ground and neutral go to the same strip..

 

[SLK50]

Actually going back and giving this more thought,

running 220 volts to ground could give a whole new meaning to "welding machine".

 

[lnewlf]

Actually going back and giving this more thought,

running 220 volts to ground could give a whole new meaning to "welding machine".

That it would-in this case each hot leg would simply connect to it's corresponding hot leg, not ground..My problem is what to do with the extra ground or neutral..since the generator has one of each and the welder. outlet only has neutral

 

[Checkswrecks]

Free advice from the neenernets?

https://www.doityourself.com/forum/electrical-c-d-c/218250-convert-generator-240-outlet-120v.html#b

 

[Redfish Hunter]

The generator has four wires- that is to say, the outlet on the generator is a four conductor. What I want to connect to has three wires-two hot and a neutral. I need to know if I can drop the neutral or the ground.

I gotta agree with ionbeam, you are really treading on dangerous ground getting electrical advice from the forum. Then, whoever gives you advice is going to get a dogpile of folks who nitpick whatever he types in an odd game of one-ups-manship.

Therefore, I have a question for you. Are you SURE that the welding machine has two hots and a neutral?

Yep- two hots and a neutral-240 volts..and in any box ground and neutral go to the same strip..

(Deep Sigh)

No, the neutral and ground do not always go to the same strip. They are supposed to be bonded before the main breaker panel. Yes, it has been done that way many times by many folks with no ill effects but that is not how it is done according to present day wiring codes. This is to prevent circulating currents. This also disrupts GFCI protection. I don't doubt that yours is done that way. Just because that is what you have, does not mean that it is correct.

A 240 volt user does not need a neutral. If there is a 3 prong 240, the 3rd prong should be a ground.

My best advice would be to type in your question on your internet search engine. I just did this myself to verify that your answer is easily found. I assure you this is not an effort to be sarcastic, I sincerely want you to get your answer. I sincerely want you to have a safe result.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Free advice from the neenernets?

https://www.doityourself.com/forum/electrical-c-d-c/218250-convert-generator-240-outlet-120v.html#b

That link won't answer his question. He does not need to convert 240 to 120. He needs 240 4prong to 240 3prong. Good effort though.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Why don't you get one of those boxes that you plug the gen into and when the grid power comes back on, it automatically isolates the gen so you don't blow anything up......

 

[Bustanut joker]

Oh man, taking electrical advice from the Forum? Hope you have home owners insurance. Even if 'Bust comes along and tells you that you have two power feeds, a ground and neutral wire would you take his advice and wire your electrical system that way?

I checked with this guy...

He said it didn't have anything to do with him. I say just wing it an keep your insurance mans phone number handy.

Fish is spot on here. Inspectors get a sad face when they see neutral and ground hanging out together at the strip joint..

 

[lnewlf]

Taking RFish's advice I searched the net. Good God! everything I want is either illegal, immoral or fattening..

Fish and Bust are correct about ground and neutral- However in my ancient and robust box they are on the same strip...

I can accept a certain amount of risk-after all I have been on 2 wheels for 35 years. I will NOT backfeed the grid. I will not fry myself with a suicide cable. I will not connect hot to ground. I just want to know which of the conductors to leave out-the ground or the neutral. Some say to use [obviously] the two hots and ground-others to use neutral-others to use them both. Lacking a definitive answer I guess I'll go with hot, hot, and ground off the gen. as that matches up with the wires in the welder outlet.

 

[Fred W]

Backfeeding your house via a generator is completely against electrical code and strictly illegal.

Why not do the job correctly and put in a manual transfer switch at the sub-panel? It won't be all that much more expensive and you won't fry any electrical workers if/when you have a brain fart.

 

[dcarver]

I kinda got the drift this outlet was to be a dedicated to the gennie outlet?

See what Assuming does fer a feller?

 

[majicmaker]

Ahhhhh Damn Fred! Don't start putting common sense into this thing now! It's just now getting interesting!

This coming from a man that doesn't know a damn thing about electricity!