Need Help with 06 Fork Problem

[jefferskn]

I really need help figuring out a problem with my 06 forks. The forks have not been feeling right so I decided to change out the oil. Once I got the forks off and pulled the springs out of both of them it was obvious one fork I could move up and down without an issue and the other was very hard to pump in and out to get the oil out. I then followed this link https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=127506

to pull out the cartridge. Once I got the cartridge out that appears to move freely. I got the cartridge out but the small spring and bottom spacer stayed inside the fork. There appears to be a ring inside the inner fork tube preventing the spring and spacer from coming out. I could not find a reference to this inner ring in any guide or post in any fjr forum. I am trying to avoid completely pulling the forks apart because the seals were replaced about a year ago by the previous owner. When I try to put the cartridge back in and put the bottom cartridge bolt in that fork tube is about 2 inches taller than the fork tube I have NOT removed the cartridge from so something is not going back together right. I really need help figuring out if that ring can somehow be removed so I can get the spring and spacer out and then put the cartridge back in with the spring and spacer as one unit. Or if I have to split the fork tubes to fix. I added pictures showing how the cartridge came out and what the internals look like that I can't get out. Any help would greatly be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Fred W]

The spring down inside the leg is the top-out spring. It is supposed to be captive on the cartridge.

Like this:

You should be able to fish that spring out without taking the upper and lower tubes out. Problem is, I do not recall how that spring is supposed to be retained on the cartridge. I never took mine off. There may be a missing snap ring or something else (should still be inside the fork too.

Note: yours won't have the large washer on the top of the cartridge (bottom end in my picture). That was a 1st Gen thing.

Under the inner fork tube is a cup that seats in the bottom of the lower fork leg. The bottom end of the cartridge seats into that. The cup will not fit past the inner fork tube, so you have to jiggle things around to get it to seat n the leg and then seat the cartridge back into it. It's a little fiddly, but can be done without disassembling the fork tubes also.

The "cup" is item 12,37 in this parts fiche

 

[jefferskn]

The small spring in your picture wont fish out because it wont fit through the inner ring I indicated in my picture above. That ring appears to be the reason the small spring stayed and did not come out with the cartridge. I dont know what that inner ring is. Ive looked at the 06 service manual and parts fiches and still cant figure it out. I tried to pull out that ring with a right angle piece of metal but the ring wont move.

 

[jefferskn]

Fred, I forgot to add in my reply that part 12,37 (spacer) is also visible in my picture above. It's below the little spring. I can't get that part out either. The inner ring I mentioned before is preventing the little spring and spacer (12,37) from falling right out of the tube. I wonder if the ring I am mentioning keeping my spring and spacer in is actually part 9,34 in the parts fiche. I know that washer is usally under the seal but I have not pulled the seal out since I didn't want to damage it because it's fairly new. It's just an idea on that ring that nobody seems to mention on a cartridge removal.

 

[gixxerjasen]

Well now, I thought I'd seen every way to screw up a set of forks, but not this one. I'm interested in the outcome. I'm betting you'll at least be taking them further apart though to fix this.

 

[gixxerjasen]

The spring looks like it is in there sideways, is that what I'm seeing? That'd explain why it's taller when you try to reassemble it. Possible it was reassembled incorrectly last time?

 

[jefferskn]

Jasen, the spring is sideways just for the picture. I had it correct when i tried to insert the cartridge. That internal ring is my nemesis right now. I am hoping somebody knows what that ring is for.

 

[gixxerjasen]

Not sure how much help I can be, but as it happens, since my bike now has AK20's, my cartridges are in a huge zip lock bag in my garage. I took these photos, if you need anything else, let me know.

 

[gixxerjasen]

You still have that upper retainer on your cartridge. Looks like somehow (I can't see how) the spring became separated and got beat down into the bottom of your fork. The lower assembly has parts that are not on the fiche, such as the adjuster. Possible that the spring is jammed under things we don't see on the fiche? Might be possible to brute force the spring out, but it may have damaged the lower and that might need replacing.

The lower portion of your cartridge also appears beat to all hell and back. Looks like there's been some violence going on inside your forks.

 

[gixxerjasen]

A few more closeups of the spring on the retainer.

 

[jefferskn]

Does that spring slide right off the cartridge? It looks like it would. If that ring I pointed out was not inside my tube the small spring would come out along with the small spacer at the very bottom. The ring in my picture is not allowing the spring to come out which is then prevents the spacer from coming out. The cartridge seems to work fine. I pulled the cartridge apart without heat even and everything seems good. I may have to pull the tubes apart but I still need to figure out what that ring is for inside the tube preventing the small spring and spacer from coming out. I've done fork oil changes on my previous fjr's but never pulled cartridges. I am glad I found my issue of why my forks were not behaving right. One fork tube tube was very tough to move up and down with the spring out when I was trying to get oil out of the cartridge while it was still attached to the fork. I then knew I needed to find out what was going on so I looked at guides to pull the cartridge which seemed straight forward until the small spring and spacer would not come out and I could see that a small ring inside was preventing that. Nobody seems to know what that ring is though and that is my major problem.

 

[gixxerjasen]

I'd bet that spring is put onto that retainer with a press of some sort. It's on there good and I can't yank it off, and I don't see anything holding it on.

 

[jefferskn]

Good to know that the spring is on there good. The spring is not sold separately, it's sold as a part of the cartridge assembly. I got the cartridge out by screwing on the top cap and pulling on that to get the cartridge out. It wasn't easy but eventually came out. I did not know hard/easy it was supposed to be since I had never done it before. Clearly it was hard because that ring I keep mentioning essentially stripped the spring right off the cartridge as the cartridge left the fork tube. I'm sure I could get the spring back on the cartridge if I could get the spring out.

 

[Fred W]

What you are calling the "inner ring" is the inward flange on the bottom of the inner fork tube. That flange is supposed to be below the top out spring, and is what normally rams into the top out spring when the fork tops out. How the spring worked its way below that flange is anyone's guess, but I think that means you are going to have to bang the bushings and seal out to get things reassembled correctly.

 

[jefferskn]

What you are calling the "inner ring" is the inward flange on the bottom of the inner fork tube. That flange is supposed to be below the top out spring, and is what normally rams into the top out spring when the fork tops out. How the spring worked its way below that flange is anyone's guess, but I think that means you are going to have to bang the bushings and seal out to get things reassembled correctly.

Thank you Fred. I was figuring I was going to have to pull the tubes apart to figure this out. Now that I know it's NOT a ring per say but actually the bottom of the inner fork tube I can proceed with dissasembly. Any chance I can the tubes pulled apart and reassembled without needing new parts? Also, to get the tubes apart, do I just remove the retainer clip above the fork seal and keep ramming the inner fork tube out to get the seal out? I have already removed the dust cover. It's even possible somebody reassembled the fork tube incorrectly when the previous owner had the seals replaced. Anything is possible. Any help on how to proceed from here would be greatly appreciated. I never intended to be this deep into the fork but if I can fix it myself and avoid the dealership that would be a win. Thanks again everybody for the help.

 

[jefferskn]

Does anybody happen to have a picture of an inner fork tube removed showing the flange that Fred is talking about? It would be helpful to see a picture before I try pulling it apart.

 

[jefferskn]

Jasen, it looks like that small spring has smaller diameter at the bushing and a larger diameter that faces the bottom of the fork. Is my assumption correct? It also looks like that spring might be pressed onto that bushing that is on the cartridge.

 

[gixxerjasen]

Looks the same to me, and yes, it's press fit on there, and tight. No idea how yours came off.

 

[jefferskn]

Update. I finally got the bike back together last night. The ride is night and day better. I think I also gained about 1.5" of additional fork travel as well now that the forks are assembled correctly. I had to completely separate the fork tubes on the second fork as well because after I reassembled the first fork the second fork was taller. That told me that the second fork also probably had the small spring sitting at the bottom of the lower fork tube. Yep, that is where I found the second spring. I reassembled the second fork tube and and now both forks are the same height. I need to replace my bushings but did not want to leave my bike tore apart while waiting for the parts so I put it back together. I made the bushing tool using the muffler tip from advance auto and the seal tool using 2" pvc. Grand total of $12 to make the tools and they worked great. Thanks again to everybody for their help.

Jasen, I also found that the small spring had a small diameter end and a large diameter end. The small end pressed into the collar on the cartridge and the large end faces the bottom of the upper tube. I was able to get the springs pressed back into their respective collars.