Removing/disabling the ABS

[wetwolf]

I'd rather not have linked anyways. I'm a trail braker and like the feel of a solid lever. ABS on the front pulses sometimes when I'm coming to a moderate stop, I don't want it going off when i'm settin up a corner.

Keep the rubber side down

Da Wolf

 

[Blind Squirrel]

I'd rather not have linked anyways. I'm a trail braker and like the feel of a solid lever. ABS on the front pulses sometimes when I'm coming to a moderate stop, I don't want it going off when i'm settin up a corner.
Keep the rubber side down

Da Wolf

Make sure you post back to us after you lock the front brake and tell us how it worked out for you.

 

[ionbeam]

ABS on the front pulses sometimes when I'm coming to a moderate stop, I don't want it going off when i'm settin up a corner.

Copied from what I wrote in another post about ABS, for those that aren't familiar with what triggers ABS application:

In motor vehicle ABS applications the trigger point for ABS is typically defined as when a wheel's slip angle becomes greater than 87%. This is the critical point between a rolling wheel and a skidding wheel. When vehicle speed and wheel speed vary by more than 13% (impending wheel lockup) ABS will engage until vehicle and wheel speed come closer to balancing. With a slip angle of 86% the wheel is already beginning to skid. The ABS ECU will continue to meter braking force until the wheel is no longer impending lockup.

The FJR's ABS is disabled at speeds under 7 mph.

 

[phroenips]

I'd rather not have linked anyways. I'm a trail braker and like the feel of a solid lever. ABS on the front pulses sometimes when I'm coming to a moderate stop, I don't want it going off when i'm settin up a corner.

Keep the rubber side down

Da Wolf

Make sure you post back to us after you lock the front brake and tell us how it worked out for you.

In case this comment wasn't quite clear enough, I'm fairly certain the implication is that if you're a skilled enough rider that you say you don't need ABS, and yet you say the front ABS engages sometimes with that same skilled riding, then without the ABS you very likely would've induced a front tire skid.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Searched all over the web, and this forum. I've got an 05 w/abs. The rear abs doesn't work right. I can dynamite the pedal and the back tire locks up, which is what i expect from so many years on non abs bikes. The front does the ABS thing pulse, haven't actually locked that one all the way up yet, but then again, haven't tried.to, after all, it is the front brake.
IMHO, the ABS system on this bike is about 10 lbs worth of stuff that i don't need to ride safely, and I would rather lose the weight and free up some space.

Does anybody here know what it might take to get the thing back to the stone age of just a line from a master cylinder to a brake caliper to make it stop.

I can make the brake lines and handle all the hydraulic stuff, but what do I do with the wiring. I don't have a wiring diagram for the 05, so, i dont know how closely the ABS is connected to the ECM or dash panel.If I can just pull the abs brick unit and run a signal wire from the front or rear speed sensors to somewhere, thats fine. If i have to get a whole new wire harness, then it's not worth the trouble

So,,,,,, Just throwin it out there to see if anybody has an answer

Thanks for reading.

Bruce

Bruce, read this: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/170094-abs-makes-hippies-cry/

 

[HotRodZilla]

If you feel your kever pulsing under moderate pull, that's most likely NOT your ABS engaging. My bet wild be a warped rotor. The ABS takes significant pressure to engage. The rear is hard to get to engage without also engaging the front. Not impossible, just hard.

You may want to look beyond your idea that the ABS is causing issues.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

Your abs isn't engaging during routine riding with moderate lever pressure. Unless you're riding on an oil slick. It doesn't go off setting up a turn. You are no substitute for abs. There is no substitute.

 

[Bearly Flying]

Make sure you post back to us after you lock the front brake and tell us how it worked out for you.

Actually the OP is less likely to lock up a wheel during hard braking, than an ABS Rider who just grabs as much brake as possible and depends on the ABS to do it's job.... GREAT...... Until the ABS doesn't work.

( Just had the ABS/traction control module fail in my car, luckily it wasn't in a panic situation)

 

[Fred W]

Actually the OP is less likely to lock up a wheel during hard braking, than an ABS Rider who just grabs as much brake as possible and depends on the ABS to do it's job....

Who does that? Where is it written, described, or taught that one should "just grab as much brake as possible and depend on the ABS to do its job? If someone is telling people that they should be fired or at least corrected. That is not what ABS is for, nor how it should be used. When riding an ABS bike you should always attempt to use the right amount of brake force for the situation just as if it were not ABS.

The beauty of ABS is that is can save your bacon when something happens really quick and the road traction isn't quite as good as you anticipated it to be. In the case of a no-ABS bike you are going to go down. In the case of ABS you will stay up, maintain steering, and possibly (not always) be able to evade the bad situation.

Am I a fan of ABS? Absolutely.

Do I want ABS on my (street going) motorcycles? You betcha.

Do I think a skilled rider can stop shorter without ABS? Yes, but only under ideal conditions.

It is the non-ideal conditions that ABS is there for, and my educated guess is that during true panic situations, conditions will be less than ideal more often than not.

Just today I was fortunate enough to not have activated my ABS in a panic stop situation, which has prompted me to post this. I was cruising up 2-lane state route 10 at ~ 60 mph (10 over posted). An oncoming car driver had her left turn signal on and was slowing, and appeared to be waiting for me to go by, but just as I came up on her (yes, it was a her) she turned right in front of me. I was heavy on both brakes and slowed very rapidly, enough to miss tee-boning her. The rear was very light with that amount of brake force, so the rear ABS may have actuated, IDK for sure. The road was clear and dry and the front wheel did not slip. But with the amount of brake force I applied to avoid the idiot, had there been anything on the road surface I'd have been down without the ABS for sure.

Her response after nearly killing me? "Sorry." I am sure that she did not see me, even with my pulsating LED aux lights on.

 

[wetwolf]

I'm pretty sure it's not a warped rotor, I can't feel it all the time. It could be the front rotors rocking back and forth a little on their rivets, but it sure feels like an ABS pulsing, kinda like the brain box is thinking about it, but not going full solenoid. It's just an annoyance and i don't expect it to activate during any of my normal braking for a turn.

2 years ago I got left turned across a hiway. I was doing about 80 - 25 over posted - on the bandit and the lady in the minivan had her left signal on and appeared to be waiting for me. I had the front and rear brakes covered because you just can't trust cagers. Sure as shit, she moves when I'm less than 100 feet from her. I locked up the back as usual and hit the front hard enough to fully compress the forks. I skidded by her ass end with about 6 inches to spare. Flipped her off with my left hand as i accelerated away.

Situational awareness.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Today I read an interview of Jorge Lorenzo, three time and current MOTOGP champion. He made the remark that if a rider locks the front wheel under braking there is a 10% chance of avoiding a crash. I suspect the guys he rides with have a slightly better chance of saving a bike with a locked-up front wheel then the average rider on this forum. ABS is good.

"Her response after nearly killing me? "Sorry."" Fred, I bet that is exactly what she would have said to your heirs as well.

 

[wetwolf]

That sounds about right, locking the front brake usually ends up in a highside if you have traction, if you don't have traction, then it's anybodies guess.

Da Wolf

 

[wetwolf]

Just wondering here. WTF do you guys do when you hit a patch of wet leaves or pine needles, or a slick spot when you are on the gas?????

Every moto rider needs a little bit of sideways.

Da Wolf

 

[Old Guy]

I'd rather not have linked anyways. I'm a trail braker and like the feel of a solid lever. ABS on the front pulses sometimes when I'm coming to a moderate stop, I don't want it going off when i'm settin up a corner.
Keep the rubber side down

Da Wolf

Make sure you post back to us after you lock the front brake and tell us how it worked out for you.

Like wetwolf said, I too managed to ride for 46 years without ABS, and I'm still alive as well, When I bought my '02 Goldwing I had the option, and I did not buy ABS and saved some $$$.

When I bought my '13 FJR, I had no choice. Then a few weeks after I got it I had an emergency in the rain and had to stop NOW! I was very happy to have it.

I see a lot of people who argue they their skill set is so superior that they don't need it, but throw changeable road surfaces into the picture, and it gets tough. On public roads it's not at all unlikely that it'll change during a single emergency braking event. When that car turns left in front of you, you may start braking on a clean, dry surface then cross painted lines, oil in the intersection, etc. I personally don't think there's a human alive who can modulate his braking over those surfaces while maintaining maximum braking as well as ABS can. But maybe that's just me.

 

[SunRider]

I've practiced a few ABS stops, front and rear, in a dirt parking lot, on my FJR after its two year fluid change. Seems to function as I imagined, and might save the day during a straight-up emergency braking event. So I will keep & maintain this ABS.

However, just having an ABS does not assure safer operation. The concept is great, but how it is engineered & programmed is key. The ABS functionality on my 4Runner is terrible. I have had the brake pedal go to the floor in a situation where I was braking hard on a good surface that dropped off into dirt. And there are other warts there too....

When the '92 Corvette came supplied with 'Traction Control' and ABS, many of the autocrossers cried it was unfair. The criers envisioned perfect performance. Soon, many vet drivers had turned off the Traction Control and installed a blown fuse into the ABS, as the programming favored total safety over performance.

Sooo, I understand where the OP is coming from; He has a failing ABS; How might it fail next ?

 

[Geezer]

FWIW, I intentionally bought the non-ABS FJR back in '05 because I didn't want ABS. I had ABS on my '94 truck back then and it failed while entering a toll booth and I nearly ran down the car ahead of me, so I decided that ABS was not for me.

Since owning the FJR I have had a few emergency braking situations where I got on the rear a little too hard and felt the back start to come around on me as the weight of the bike pushed onto the front wheel. It is not a good feeling. I also have to be very careful to never squeeze the front too hard.

ABS technology has gotten much better since '94 and most likely is just fine on the GEN 1 FJR when exercised regularly to keep the fluid flowing properly through the valves. If I had it I would leave it on there even if it only worked on the front.

I doubt there would be anywhere near 10 pounds worth of weight savings from removing the ABS parts.

 

[Bounce]

Anyone know the legal ramifications if you have a wreck that ends with an injury to someone and the prosecution determines the rider intentionally disabled a factory safety feature?

 

[ionbeam]

All ABS systems are made to become active upon impending wheel lockup and this is the sole triggering point. Impending lockup is determined by measuring wheel speed, vehicle speed and then the ABS ECU does a lot of math. The vehicle inertia can be determined by an accelerometer, calculated or provided in a software lookup table. When the ABS ECU calculates that a wheel is going too slow for the vehicle speed (increasing slip angle) it will activate the ABS system until the slip angle is corrected. The point at which the wheel is impending lockup depends on available traction. Traction in turn is road conditions and tire characteristics vs the mass and rate of velocity change. If you have non OEM tires or non OEM tire sizes it will affect impending wheel lockup. During very hard braking, no matter what the pedal feel is under foot, the ABS function is being operated by an ABS hydraulic pump motor and series of solenoids and unrelated to your pedal feel. In engineering terms the impending wheel lockup point is a fixed unit which all ABS system engineers should be using when designing systems.

I have driven a POS Kia which would activate the ABS under even moderate braking because the POS had virtually no wheel traction under ideal conditions and horrible weight transfer under braking. I have found it hard to get my '15ES to activate the ABS because it seems to have well managed weight transfer and good traction with PR4 tires. With the OEM tires on my FJR I could get the ABS to activate more frequently due to the (IMO) poor traction quality of the tires.

And, to Geezers point about the ABS system weight, it is indeed closer to 10 pounds than not. The ABS metering block and pump motor is heaver that you would expect and the ABS ECU is pretty heavy also. I suspect that an industrious Forumite could use Ignacio's model comparison table to compare ABS and non ABS vehicle weights. With all the ABS parts, fluid, hoses, wiring and brackets the ABS FJR is in total about 30 lbs heavier. Looked it up for the '04/05 model years, 537 lbs (non-ABS model) / 553 lbs (ABS model) according to Yamaha.

 

[phroenips]

I had ABS on my '94 truck back then and it failed while entering a toll booth and I nearly ran down the car ahead of me, so I decided that ABS was not for me.

So, if ABS fails, the entire braking system fails? I thought it would mean that it simply reverts to being a non-ABS vehicle, where the operator would need to then manually modulate braking power to prevent wheel lock-up.

 

[ionbeam]

^^^^ ABS is supposed to be fail-safe. If the ABS system fails your normal braking system should work unaltered.