Sticky clutch plates

[E.T.]

I looked at all the discs and about 3 of them had some foreign black sticky material on the discs. I used alcohol on a rag to remove the goop before oiling them.

Just telling my experience with the clutch soak. I looked to see if I took any pictures, but didn't find any.

Interesting. Think I have heard of being reported before. Gook from the manufacturing or assembly process? Or clutch material worn off?

It didn't strike me as worn material but assembly crud. Reminded me of that black Permatex in a tube stuff, but with a touch of silicone. I was amazed at how thin the actual clutch material has gotten to over the years. Heck, the Honda 750k I put a clutch in years ago, now that had thickness. With such little thickness in the material, anything foreign is too much.

 

[Monty]

I did a clutch plate soak right after I purchased the 11' model after I felt the drag and experienced the klunky shift into 1st.

I cleaned all the discs real good before heating them up in a pan of oil on the kitchen stove so the oil would soak in good.

I can now start the bike and pull in the clutch, count to 10 and it shifts into gear without any feel, and sometimes I have to let the lever back out a tad to help it into gear. 

It has made a difference for me and was well worth the trouble.

If it came back so soon as you mention, I wonder if the discs were cleaned to begin with. Maybe they just oiled them...

Clean them? Never heard of that. How do you 'clean' them?

So what did Yamaha do different from Gen I to Gen II? The parts are all the same. But much higher rate of occurrence with Gen II than Gen I? Poor manufacturing process?

The clutch soak seems to be merely treating the symptoms. What is the fix? :blink:

As far as I know, the root cause is not enough oil on the clutch plates upon assembly. Which is why the clutch soak addressed the root cause.

If that be the case, why are some members doing the soak and then having to do it again in 1500 to 2000 miles. Seems like if it had to do with an assembly problem from the factory then one good soak should eliminate the problem. Just sayin. :huh:

 

[Millsaps2]

I am on my third FJR ('03, '07, '11). On the '011 at the 600 mile service, actually 2000 miles since I had been on a trip, the bike shifted very hard after the service. After getting home I noticed the oil level was only mid-level in the sight glass. I added 1/2 quart of oil and the problem stopped. I have always added 4-1/2 quarts of Castrol 20W50 to my bikes and never had a shifting problem. It seems the '11 is sensitive to lower oil levels as far as clutch action is concerned. Most of the time I added 5 quarts to the '03 and put 65,000 miles on it without issues.

 

[SkooterG]

As far as I know, the root cause is not enough oil on the clutch plates upon assembly. Which is why the clutch soak addressed the root cause.

If that be the case, why are some members doing the soak and then having to do it again in 1500 to 2000 miles. Seems like if it had to do with an assembly problem from the factory then one good soak should eliminate the problem. Just sayin. :huh:

That's a good question. I had never seen that happening until just recently. Is it the owners doing it again when they don't need to? A bad initial soak? Or other problems altogether?

 

[Nitro]

Just ride it, mine eventually "soaked" or broke in and works smoothe as can be now.

 

[leedavis]

I am on my third FJR ('03, '07, '11). On the '011 at the 600 mile service, actually 2000 miles since I had been on a trip, the bike shifted very hard after the service. After getting home I noticed the oil level was only mid-level in the sight glass. I added 1/2 quart of oil and the problem stopped. I have always added 4-1/2 quarts of Castrol 20W50 to my bikes and never had a shifting problem. It seems the '11 is sensitive to lower oil levels as far as clutch action is concerned. Most of the time I added 5 quarts to the '03 and put 65,000 miles on it without issues.

My 04 is similar. I get smoother shifts with the oil level all the way to the top of the sight glass.

 

[RadioHowie]

This "Having to Do It Again (clutch soak)" seems to be becoming more common.

After thinking about this, I'm thinking the clutch soak is only temporary. Soak it good...problem returns 1500 miles later. Why? The oil on the friction surfaces gets slung/squeezed out of the plates. But, it's not getting replaced by fresh oil....and I think I know why...

Take a look at this great pic of the clutch from mcatrophy's great clutch soak pictorial:

If you take a look at the placement of the clutch in the FJR, it is located WELL above the height of the crankcase. The only source of oil is splash from a crank journal (at the yellow arrow). AND the splash, what there is, hits the outside of the clutch basket, not directly on the drive/driven plates. There is no other source of fresh oil to the assembly other than that splash.

So, if the oil level is marginally low, there will be even LESS splash from the crankshaft onto the clutch assembly. Perhaps a solution, as implied by several posts above, is to run the oil level at the maximum (according to the sight glass).

More oil in the crankcase means more of the crank dipping into the oil, slinging more back on the clutch.

Perhaps as Millsaps2 wrote, putting 5 quarts in, instead of 4 1/2, might be a solution to the sticky clutch problem on many FJR.

I know if I had a sticky-clutch problem, this is what I'd try to remedy the problem.

edit-to-add:

Perhaps another/additional solution would be to (judiciously) drill some holes in the clutch housing (at the arrows) that would allow more of the "splash" to reach the friction materials:

What's the worst that could happen? (besides destroying a $450 part??)

 

[jefferskn]

That makes total sense. Once I was done with the clutch soak my oil level in the sight glass went from right at the top mark to way above the top mark where the sight glass was completely filled with oil. The clutch plates were slathered in oil when I put them back in and brought the oil level up. It took a few times of loosening the drain plug to slowly let some oil out before it was back at the top dot in the sight glass. However, I did ride the bike for awhile with too much oil in it before realizing the oil had risen from the clutch soak and it shifted butter smooth. The "snick, snick" shifting sounds is a perfect way to describe the shifting after a clutch soak. Hardly any effort to shift and clicks right in. Now that my oil is back to the top line and 1500 or so miles have gone by I definitely have to push much harder to shift through the gears. I might just have to throw some extra oil in it. Apparently the bike has room for some extra oil over the sight glass max mark. At least it's just a thought unless somebody else sees a reason I shouldn't.

This "Having to Do It Again (clutch soak)" seems to be becoming more common.

After thinking about this, I'm thinking the clutch soak is only temporary. Soak it good...problem returns 1500 miles later. Why? The oil on the friction surfaces gets slung/squeezed out of the plates. But, it's not getting replaced by fresh oil....and I think I know why...

Take a look at this great pic of the clutch from mcatrophy's great clutch soak pictorial:

If you take a look at the placement of the clutch in the FJR, it is located WELL above the height of the crankcase. The only source of oil is splash from a crank journal (at the yellow arrow). AND the splash, what there is, hits the outside of the clutch basket, not directly on the drive/driven plates. There is no other source of fresh oil to the assembly other than that splash.

So, if the oil level is marginally low, there will be even LESS splash from the crankshaft onto the clutch assembly. Perhaps a solution, as implied by several posts above, is to run the oil level at the maximum (according to the sight glass).

More oil in the crankcase means more of the crank dipping into the oil, slinging more back on the clutch.

Perhaps as Millsaps2 wrote, putting 5 quarts in, instead of 4 1/2, might be a solution to the sticky clutch problem on many FJR.

I know if I had a sticky-clutch problem, this is what I'd try to remedy the problem.

 

[J. Parrie]

This "Having to Do It Again (clutch soak)" seems to be becoming more common.

Perhaps another/additional solution would be to (judiciously) drill some holes in the clutch housing (at the arrows) that would allow more of the "splash" to reach the friction materials:

What's the worst that could happen? (besides destroying a $450 part??)

I would be concerned with where all the pieces of that $450.00 part would end up if it were to grenade as a result of modification. I had the same idea as I was reading the thread, but I would not want to be the trail blazer on this one.

Not knowing exactly where the oil level is in the clutch compartment, this could also have a detrimental result if it allowed what little oil there is in the basket to be spun out by way of centrifigal force when the basket is spinning.

 

[RadioHowie]

Not knowing exactly where the oil level is in the clutch compartment, this could also have a detrimental result if it allowed what little oil there is in the basket to be spun out by way of centrifigal force when the basket is spinning.

Ahhh....well, there's the problem. There is no "Oil Level" in the clutch compartment.

Take a look:

Here's a different angle photo to the clutch comparment....any oil that gets slung in to the clutch area immediately flows down these "drains" right in to the transmission.

 

[dcarver]

So then, plug up the drains?

 

[RadioHowie]

So then, plug up the drains?

Assuming your not just asking a silly question for a joke ( ) then how would the tranny get any oil? Plus, the oil would still drain out...right back through the hole it came from, just underneath the crank journal you can see in the right side of this picture...

What the FJR needs is an oil spray directly into the primary driven gear housing.

 

[ionbeam]

I just took a quick glance at the '03 clutch parts vs a '11 and the majority of the plates and friction disks have the same part number. In theory that means that there has been no changes to make the Gen IIs clutch unique. Since it is the recent Gen IIs that have clutch problems we should be able to order clutch parts today, install them in a Gen I and the Gen I *should* start to suffer from sticking clutch plates. If it doesn't then there is something different about the Gen II engine machining or other peripheral change. The slave cylinder does have a different throw length between the Gen I and Gen II, perhaps that plays a role?

 

[SkooterG]

You guys are over-thinking this me thinks. It's the same clutch between a Gen I and Gen II yet is almost exclusively a Gen II problem. As for it being a recurring problem, I am skeptical and don't necessarily trust these owner's observations. Just as Gen Is were overdiagnosed as being a ticker, me thinks the same is happening to Gen II clutches.

And Alan, Gen II went back to same slave cylinder in as Gen i in 2009. So no differences since then I believe.

 

[Monty]

I think the "more oil" syndrome is on the right track, however, my old school thinking is that overfilling with oil can cause seals to leak. Oh, well. :huh:

 

[jefferskn]

If the Gen I & II both have almost the same clutch than why would the Gen II primarily have this problem? My 05 Gen I was shifting really hard and when I pulled the plates out most of them were bone dry. After the soak the bike shifted almost perfectly. 1500 miles later the bike is now shifting hard again. I can almost bet that when I pull the plates out again I will find a bunch of really dry plates. I'm not sure why the Gen I's don't seem to have the problem as much but my Gen I 05 definitely benefited greatly from a clutch plate soak.

 

[HotRodZilla]

You guys are over-thinking this me thinks. It's the same clutch between a Gen I and Gen II yet is almost exclusively a Gen II problem. As for it being a recurring problem, I am skeptical and don't necessarily trust these owner's observations. Just as Gen Is were overdiagnosed as being a ticker, me thinks the same is happening to Gen II clutches.

Gawd...I hate it when you say stuff that I agree with. I think, like most issues here, this one suffers from the "me too" syndrome. Ie: "My bars vibrate and my hands go numb." "Oh, me too. Me too." "My bike feels funny at high altitude when I haven't moved the throttle for an hour." "Oh, me too. Me too." "My bike ticks." "Oh, me too. Me too." "My clutch MIGHT be sticking." "Oh, me too. Me too." Get it?? We could go on for a long time about the "me too" bandwagon around here.

 

[SkooterG]

If the Gen I & II both have almost the same clutch than why would the Gen II primarily have this problem?

Crappy manufacturing process.

And sorry, I am bit skeptical of your claims. You are one of the only one's, if not THE only one to have this problem on a Gen I. Sure it's not you?

 

[ionbeam]

...And Alan, Gen II went back to same slave cylinder in as Gen i in 2009. So no differences since then I believe.

Thinks, occasionally the memory has sticking clutch plates. May need a little Alquimia Tequila Extra Anejo to un-stick things.

...1500 miles later the bike is now shifting hard again...

Before you soak the plates again, if you haven't removed the left foot peg assembly, disassembled the shift pivot on the plate and cleaned & lubed the pivot, do it first. Why do I have this feeling of deja vu all over again?

 

[jefferskn]

If the Gen I & II both have almost the same clutch than why would the Gen II primarily have this problem?

Crappy manufacturing process.

And sorry, I am bit skeptical of your claims. You are one of the only one's, if not THE only one to have this problem on a Gen I. Sure it's not you?

I don't know why Gen I's primarily don't have this issue especially if the design and parts really didn't change. All I know is I went from a hard shifting bike to a smooth shifting bike after a clutch plate soak. And most of the plates were bone dry while the outside plates were damp. And for some reason 1500 miles later the hard shifting is coming back. Everything I read on the Gen II shifting problems matched my Gen I shifting issues and when I pulled the plates most of the inside plates were dry just like the Gen II guys. And when the soak was done the shifting was night and day better. That's all I can say I guess.

...And Alan, Gen II went back to same slave cylinder in as Gen i in 2009. So no differences since then I believe.

Thinks, occasionally the memory has sticking clutch plates. May need a little Alquimia Tequila Extra Anejo to un-stick things.

...1500 miles later the bike is now shifting hard again...

Before you soak the plates again, if you haven't removed the left foot peg assembly, disassembled the shift pivot on the plate and cleaned & lubed the pivot, do it first. Why do I have this feeling of deja vu all over again?

I will definitely try cleaning up all of the pivot joints and see if that helps before pulling the plates out again. Thanks