Tire beads and TBS sensors

[mcatrophy]

Isn't the biggest problem with beads that the tyre is installed with lots of slippery gloopy stuff to help ease the rubber over the rim; some of this inevitably gets inside the tyre, where it tends to stick the beads together in clumps, rather than letting them roam freely around the tyre periphery?

 

[Gitbox]

Isn't the biggest problem with beads that the tyre is installed with lots of slippery gloopy stuff to help ease the rubber over the rim; some of this inevitably gets inside the tyre, where it tends to stick the beads together in clumps, rather than letting them roam freely around the tyre periphery?

Also, from what I have been told, humidity in the air from the compressor can cause clumping.

 

[jammess]

Guys,
If beads really don't work why do big trucks use them. I think this is some where in the middle.

I've wondered this myself. Only thing I can think of the beads again are quick and easy but do they actually work in the heavy truck world? To that i say show me the evidence. Kind of like the claims made for a certain fuel treatment that's supposed to mitigate harmful effects of ethanol laced fuel. Again, show me the scientific evidence. Snake oil is not a new phenomena in our society. I could go on and on but you get the idea and long and short is believe what you want because in the grand scheme of things it won't matter much anyway. I'm just sayin'.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Someone please show me a semi-truck that will do 80mph up and down hills, with the potential of 150+mph. The last time my front tire threw a weight, it was fine up to 78mph, then the shake was terrible. Problem was, I was getting ready to take the freeway home and close to 90mph. That wold have been a shitty 10 hours. Luckily I obtained another weight and fixed the problem.

Also, I've never seen beads or fluid based balancers as the sole means of balance in truck tires. I've always seen them used as supplements for times when mud and snow and funny wear come into play.

 

[Danny G]

I have looked for scientific evidence to support beads working. To date I have found none. The only thing that was interesting was a high speed drill with a bottle attached with a flexible shaft. He taped weight to one side of the plastic bottle and tried to spin up the drill. As you can imagine it was overcome by wobble. He then put beads in the bottle and repeated. He could bring the drill to full speed with very little wobble. I know this is not scientific ,save me the criticism, but it is an interesting experiment that can easily be repeated.

 

[jammess]

I saw the bottle experiment and it was interesting. Seems to me to be effective with beads you would have to put sufficient quantities in the tire to equal the amount of weights you might need to spin balance the tire and that could be a lot of beads. Also, you would have to be sure the inside of the tire is dry as in no rim lubricant or other moisture. Every time you start out from a stop the beads would have to reposition themselves. I can't see the advantage to beads over just not bothering to balance at all. I think you could probably just do a static balance on just the rim with no tire mounted then never worry about balancing every time you change tires since tire manufacturers do a pretty good job of holding new tires to very tight manufacturing tolerances. I've given some thought to doing this and I just might at least on the beemer with its telelever front suspension which pretty much eliminates any chance of a headshake.

Jeez, another 3 inches of rain overnight. I think it might be time to maybe think about trading the FJR for a boat, maybe throw in the BMW as well.

 

[RossKean]

Whether or not you use beads, the inside of the tire should be kept as dry as possible - minimize the amount of slime used to install tires. If there is sufficient humidity such that the partial pressure due to water vapor is significant, condensation (or evaporation) as a function of ambient temperature change will make tire pressure stability very poor. This is, perhaps, the only value in using nitrogen to fill tires - it is dry and non-condensing. Dry air is just as good (flame suit on).

As far as beads are concerned, free moisture will cause clumping as will gooey tire snot. I am skeptical that they are an effective means of balancing a tire but I guarantee that if they are wet and stuck, you would be better off without any balancing. FWIW, I find most MC tires are pretty good when new and that I don't really notice excessive vibration unless balance is off by a half ounce or more.

 

[Danny G]

Our group of about 5 who change our own tires have been using beads for about 3 or 4 years. I have never seen clumping, we have actually reused beads on some of our bikes. The question of do beads really work started with the BMW and my own bike not having proper balance. Before these two no one ever complained.

 

[art miller]

Whether or not you use beads, the inside of the tire should be kept as dry as possible - minimize the amount of slime used to install tires. If there is sufficient humidity such that the partial pressure due to water vapor is significant, condensation (or evaporation) as a function of ambient temperature change will make tire pressure stability very poor. This is, perhaps, the only value in using nitrogen to fill tires - it is dry and non-condensing. Dry air is just as good (flame suit on).
As far as beads are concerned, free moisture will cause clumping as will gooey tire snot. I am skeptical that they are an effective means of balancing a tire but I guarantee that if they are wet and stuck, you would be better off without any balancing. FWIW, I find most MC tires are pretty good when new and that I don't really notice excessive vibration unless balance is off by a half ounce or more.

You make very good points. As stated in past threads, I have been using beads in front MC tires for about 5 years. It is critical the tire bead lube not get on the inside surface. Using proper volume of beads is important as well. As for bead's effectiveness at high speeds, I have ramped up the speed to 110mph with no negative balance issue. I suspect beads may not work well with TPM equipment.

 

[El Toro]

I'm not a fan of the beads. They were pushed on me by a BMW parts manager. I could feel them shifting on both start up and braking. They were annoying.

When I replaced those tires for new ones, I told the service manager that there were beads and that I did not want to use that method again. He thanked me for letting him know because if you're not expecting them, tire removal results in a mess.

 

[art miller]

I'm not a fan of the beads. They were pushed on me by a BMW parts manager. I could feel them shifting on both start up and braking. They were annoying.
When I replaced those tires for new ones, I told the service manager that there were beads and that I did not want to use that method again. He thanked me for letting him know because if you're not expecting them, tire removal results in a mess.

Interesting!! I have never felt any effect of the beads on start up or breaking. Did you have TPMS on the bike? If yes that would have required more beads than without the item Front tire on FJR w/o TPMS calls for 2oz beads. You will not feel any movement with 2oz.

 

[El Toro]

I don't think that I had tpms on that bike, but I may have.

I can't say what you can feel. But I could feel them at acceleration from a stop, and in the last part of deceleration to a stop.

I did not like that aspect. Other than that one experience with them, I've always had a good spin balance ... and I'd have to say that I've always been very happy with a good spin balance, even at high speeds.

YMMV

 

[Laser Dude]

I wasn't a believer in the beads either. I had tires mounted and balanced 2 days before going on a trip. When I took it for a test ride, it was obvious they didn't balance them well. Massive vibration. My buddy who swears by the beads said "Just give me a chance to try them". He poured them in and I took it for a test ride and it was really smooth except when decelerating hit about 20mph and then it shook for a second. I pulled the weights off, tried it again and it's the smoothest it's ever been. I get no vibration at all. Fast acceleration, hard braking, smooth as glass. I've got about 5,000-6,000 miles on them now with no issues.

While many swear they don't work, I've had the opposite experience. They worked for me and they worked very well. Pain in the ass to fill with 90 degree valve stems but once in, they worked as advertised for me. Your mileage may vary.

 

[petey]

I static balance my tires, I like to see how the tire is balanced "before" reinstalling the wheel.

 

[rbentnail]

I static balance my tires, I like to see how the tire is balanced "before" reinstalling the wheel.

I am not a self changer: at $25 wheel off, all-iclusive from my local Honda dealer I don't feel the need to be. But petey brings up something I've often wondered about. For accuracy, balance, etc., particularly for the anal retentive mi·nu·ti·ae oriented, why aren't people balancing an empty wheel, then balancing an unmounted tire, then mounting so the tire heavy + the wheel light to offset each other, then balancing the whole thing assembled and adjusting accordingly?

 

[HotRodZilla]

I static balance my tires, I like to see how the tire is balanced "before" reinstalling the wheel.

I am not a self changer: at $25 wheel off, all-iclusive from my local Honda dealer I don't feel the need to be. But petey brings up something I've often wondered about. For accuracy, balance, etc., particularly for the anal retentive mi·nu·ti·ae oriented, why aren't people balancing an empty wheel, then balancing an unmounted tire, then mounting so the tire heavy + the wheel light to offset each other, then balancing the whole thing assembled and adjusting accordingly?

I do exactly that. My wheels are marked at the heavy spots, inside the rim. I've thought about clipping wheel weights to the rim and marking them to keep the wheel balanced before a tire gets added. I've also thought about having a weight welded to the inside, like a weight on the barrel of a Trap gun.

Then I came to my senses and remembered my wheels balance, the way they are, with very little weight. No reason to mess with a good thing. Haha...

 

[mcatrophy]

I static balance my tires, I like to see how the tire is balanced "before" reinstalling the wheel.

I am not a self changer: at $25 wheel off, all-iclusive from my local Honda dealer I don't feel the need to be. But petey brings up something I've often wondered about. For accuracy, balance, etc., particularly for the anal retentive mi·nu·ti·ae oriented, why aren't people balancing an empty wheel, then balancing an unmounted tire, then mounting so the tire heavy + the wheel light to offset each other, then balancing the whole thing assembled and adjusting accordingly?

Most tyre manufacturers mark a point on the tyre that they suggest is mounted by the valve, this as a first-off attempt to align heavy point of tyre with light point on rim (or vice-versa) - no shop is going to balance twice on a fixed-price job.(Click on image for larger view)



Image shows yellow dots on the tyres adjacent to the valves.

 

[HotRodZilla]

AND, my rim's heavy spot is NOT at the valves.

 

[rbentnail]

I static balance my tires, I like to see how the tire is balanced "before" reinstalling the wheel.

I am not a self changer: at $25 wheel off, all-iclusive from my local Honda dealer I don't feel the need to be. But petey brings up something I've often wondered about. For accuracy, balance, etc., particularly for the anal retentive mi·nu·ti·ae oriented, why aren't people balancing an empty wheel, then balancing an unmounted tire, then mounting so the tire heavy + the wheel light to offset each other, then balancing the whole thing assembled and adjusting accordingly?

Most tyre manufacturers mark a point on the tyre that they suggest is mounted by the valve, this as a first-off attempt to align heavy point of tyre with light point on rim (or vice-versa) - no shop is going to balance twice on a fixed-price job.(Click on image for larger view)



Image shows yellow dots on the tyres adjacent to the valves.

Never said anything about a "shop is going to balance twice on a fixed-price job" I was asking why more self- installers haven't mentioned doing it.

 

[mcatrophy]

I static balance my tires, I like to see how the tire is balanced "before" reinstalling the wheel.

I am not a self changer: at $25 wheel off, all-iclusive from my local Honda dealer I don't feel the need to be. But petey brings up something I've often wondered about. For accuracy, balance, etc., particularly for the anal retentive mi·nu·ti·ae oriented, why aren't people balancing an empty wheel, then balancing an unmounted tire, then mounting so the tire heavy + the wheel light to offset each other, then balancing the whole thing assembled and adjusting accordingly?

Most tyre manufacturers mark a point on the tyre that they suggest is mounted by the valve, this as a first-off attempt to align heavy point of tyre with light point on rim (or vice-versa) - no shop is going to balance twice on a fixed-price job. ...

Never said anything about a "shop is going to balance twice on a fixed-price job" I was asking why more self- installers haven't mentioned doing it.

You said you were not a self changer, I thought that information might conceivably been of some interest concerning the shop that does do your tyres. Sorry I posted. I'll just go back to sleep.