When will the Yamaha 2010 models be released?

[Alakso]

I have an '08 FJR and I'm interested in seeing what Yamaha will be unveiling for a '10 FJR to see if they've fixed this clutch (and no, soaking the fiber plates won't fix it!), added a 6th gear OD, fixed the FJR's ugly styling, and have added any newer engine technology like VVT, variable length intake runners, and added more HP and TQ to compete with BMW and Kawasaki.

Don't count on it. Most people wouldn't have bought a bike with that many "problems". How many more Beemer's and Kawi's are getting sold in the US than FJR's, anyway.

I want the 2010 to have a 200 horse V-4 and the fuel economy to go 200 miles at 125 mph without added heat in the rider's direction or more weight. I'm not holding my breath, and I'd settle for just seeing a red one....

I know there is no perfect bike out there for me without me building it myself and I don't have that kind of money, engineering skills, foundry access, CNC machines, tooling, etc.. These Sport-Touring bikes are all new to me and some things the different brands offer are more important to me than others. I would like a little less weight, just a little more Tq. (110 ft lbs. at the RW) would be nice, VVT does include more maintance (if needed) but I don't mind and from what little I know VVT would be just the ticket to spread out and flatten the Hp. and Tq. curves. Variable length intake runners probably isn't practical at this price point and intended usage. But a 6th gear OD would be nice when I'm doing 75-80 on the interstate. And please Yamaha add an adj. in the pressure plate with an access hole in the clutch cover. That would be an easy fix for the FJR clutch. TPM would be nice not to mention a slipper clutch and or traction control. And styling is in the eyes of the beholder, and ugly was the wrong word so I edited it to akward. OK, the FJR isn't that ugly or awkward I was just venting my disappointment with some of the stuff I saw about the FJR in the FSM. Like pulling the engine and splitting the cases to do tranny work. Now that's insane!! Why not some sort of trap-door arrangment like on the sporty? Or pulling the engine to adj. the valves. Wonder what the Stealer charges for that? The C-14 does have some things going for it that the FJR doesn't and visa-versa. And the BMW has some sweet technology along with a price to match with limited dealers to service them, not to mention the price the BMW dealers would charge for it. I bet they use a special computer or diagnostic scanner, or what ever they call it that I can't afford to buy to do BMW scheduled services?

Even though I got top dollar for my HD (paid off my HD loan) when I traded it in for my FJR, I also paid MSRP for an '08 leftover FJR that the Stealer got for 9K (tried to get the '09 model but the Stealer wouldn't go for that). And I'm getting killed with a 14% interest rate for my FJR from my CU because our credit isn't the greatest, but it is getting better. So I was thinking I could refinance my FJR at a better interest rate next Spring or if I can get a good 4%, 5%, or 6% factory interest rate it would make sense to just get a new bike as it would come out to about the same cost as refinancing my FJR at a higher interest rate with the CU. So I sit on the edge of my seat waiting to see which of the hopefully new Gen-III FJR, new Kawi C-14, or BMW K1300GT '10 bikes provides the closest match to my wish list and price point (probably not the BMW but who knows?). I do love my FJR but I'm keeping my options open.

 

[Alakso]

What are you trying to insinuate madmike?
I have an '08 FJR and I'm interested in seeing what Yamaha will be unveiling for a '10 FJR to see if they've fixed this clutch (and no, soaking the fiber plates won't fix it!), added a 6th gear OD, fixed the FJR's ugly styling, and have added any newer engine technology like VVT, variable length intake runners, and added more HP and TQ to compete with BMW and Kawasaki.

IMO, given the state of the economy, the general state of motorcycle sales, the fact that Yamaha's yearly report is rather dismal and the soft ST sales worldwide.....

....it isn't likely there will be any major model changes this year. IOW, I (me, personally, myself alone) expect there to be no changes to the FJR models in North America other than a different color. Even THAT could be a solid "maybe".

Clutch: The percentage of people who have had the plates removed and soaked is small.

As with FredW, I'd like to know what specific clutch problem you are having.

Engine: Newer engine technology like VVT, variable length intake runners, more horsepower/torque and adding a 6th gear would take an engine re-design and I don't see Yamaha having the extra money to invest in that right now. Or, if they have the design in process, spending the money on retooling the production line to accommodate these changes.

Gearing: For those who insist a 6th gear is necessary (I'm not in that camp), I doubt it would be a "super" overdrive but likely a change of each gear ratio between first and 6th to arrive at the same final drive ratio we now have.

Styling: The FJR is certainly due for a styling update. I still love the overall presentation of mine but I also understand that perception is dynamic and certainly in the "eye of the beholder" (In Bustanut's case: Eye of the BEER holder).

If you lined all the ST bikes up next to one another and had an unbiased panel of judges compare them I don't know that any of them would be deemed "ugly". Well, maybe the Norge. :huh: J/K!!!!

OR the Multistrada because of it's minimal fairing.

For instance, I don't care for the "slab sided" look of the BMW GT or for the "ribs" on the C-14 Connie (I am a former C-10 owner). So much of styling is personal taste and, as such, a matter of controversy, opinion and discussion. That's why different manufacturers choose different design parameters and we have so many options.

In the end, we won't know anything until the annual "roll out" date in October, unless dealers begin to "leak" information after their sessions with Cypress.

How's that for an outline of my insinuations?

Well maybe imply would have been a better word than insinuate. And a most excellant explanation of your thoughts. Everything you said makes a lot of sense about the '10 intro of the Gen-III FJR. I thought the FJR Gen-III's were coming out this fall because I've heard rumors of a new C-14 so I figured Yamaha would also be unveiling their new Gen-III FJR. As far as the 6th gear OD I think the stock 5sp. ratio is fine just want to lower my R's when I'm cruising on the interstate. I do like the styling of the Connie, not to mention the engine, but it looks like a similar engine design to the FJR which means I'd still have to split the cases for trans work. I wonder if the Beamer K1300 engine/trans design is the same? But the Connie's seat is to high for me, and what's with the stupid gas tank glovebox? It does have a 6sp. but I'd have to go back and look again to see if it's an OD unit? Heard the Connie's windshield sucks so that's an added expense. Never rode a Connie so all I have is anecdotal evidence from Connie owners but that could be biased? From what I've read here the fit and finish isn't on par with the FJR but exactly what does that mean? I'm an old gear-head so I'm very intrigued by the ZX-14 engine. But I've also read some FJR Forum threads about the FJR equaling the power output of the Connie with the right parts and tuning. But one thing that everyone who has a Connoie says is that the engine is super smooth and my FJR does get a little buzzy at over 4K RPM. Of course coming from the "Worlds Biggest Vibrator" the FJR seems very smooth to me. But I'd still like factory TPM and traction control and or a slipper clutch for when the weather turns nasty. Thanks for the discussion. :yahoo:

 

[wheatonFJR]

tommorrow.

 

[Alakso]

So can I assume then that you already have taken apart the clutch and cleaned all the plates, lubed and reassembled them? If not, give that a shot before doing anything else.
The normal complaints associated with the clutch plates being gooked up with some sort of assembly lube is exactly what you describe. Only a few of the fiber plates are actively involved in the de-clutching action, so you get a lot of clutch drag. That is what is being remedied by the "clutch soak" procedure, which is really just a clean and lube.

I do not believe that putting an adjustment screw on the clutch pressure plate would do any good for your concern. The problem is that, being a hydraulically operated clutch, the fluid would "self adjust" the range of motion back to what it is right now anyway. Just like is does as the clutch plates normally wear. That's why there is no adjustment. There doesn't need to be one. But it also means that you can't move the engagement point around on the lever travel as easily.

The easiest place to make an adjustment of where the engagement point occurs is at the lever itself, prior to the auto-adjusting hydraulics. The 4 position levers do offer a decent amount of adjustment of that.

A change was made in the master to slave displacement ratio in the Gen 2 redesign. Some speculation exists that this was done to accommodate the electrically operated auto clutch for the AEs. Some folks with 2nd gen "A" models have transplanted Gen 1 slaves to their Gen 2's and claim they prefer them, but I don't recall the particulars. You should be able to turn up those discussions with a few good Googles.

Following your tangent, the wax motor only opens the throttle plates for high idle. The ECU does in fact enrichen the mixture automatically based on the temperature sensors input. But the ECU has no way of varying the engine speed without the wax motor. They could have put in a high idle solenoid, but that would have been a very binary solution. The idle would race pretty high as the engine warms just before it switched to normal idle. The wax motor allows a variable high idle. A bit crude and perhaps inelegant, but pretty damn effective. Up until recently when we started discussing them, few people around here even realized we had one. Meaning they don't break.

No I haven't done anything with the clutch yet. Plus I just changed my oil so I think I'll wait until the next oil change before I open up the clutch, which shouldn't be too long, plus I'm sure the Stealer will have to order me a clutch cover gasket anyways. Very good explanation of the FJR hyd. clutch. I read a bunch of threads about the clutch soaking thing. But my brain kept telling me it was because the friction plates came from the factory dry and as such needed to be soaked to get them to work like when installing new wet clutch fiber plates. But of course if the plates were dry then they would expand a little when soaked thus reducing the free play and not increasing it, not to mention getting "soaked" from day one while in the engine oil bath, DUH. That's why I said it didn't need a "soak" like the wet clutches I've soaked before assembly. I TOTALLY missed the "cleaning" part of that discussion as it never occured to me that there would be foreign gunk on some of the plates. NOW I get it and yes, I WAS WRONG, and I admit it! Damn what's with the water up here or is it early stages of Alzheimers?? So the clutch hyd. fluid bleeds back into the master cyl. which keeps the clutch adj. the same regardless of plate wear? I also thought the lever adj. was just for ergonomics and didn't change the stroke of the piston? As such I have my levers at the closest position. I'll try moving my lever out a couple of clicks and see if I get more stroke out of the piston. Man I really f**ked this one up!!! My bad and I really appreciate everyones patience not to mention not getting dog-piled or what ever it's called. As such I'll log on Friday and ask what the FJR weight is or how many gears the trans has so everyone can get their licks in. I do deserve it!

To me the wax motor seems so archaic but like I said in another thread I'm no EFI expert so I really appreciate the education. So do the EFI HD's use a high idle solenoid? I always thought of EFI cold engine AFR more like a choke. So I figured the EFI ECU would richen up the AFR to act like a chokes air restriction. And as temps rise as read by the water temp sensor that the EFI ECU would make adjustmets on the fly to keep leaning out the AFR until full warm-up operating temp AFR is reached. I'll do some research to try and get this figured out in my head. One other thing everyone. I don't mind being wrong because then I learn. If I kept my thoughts to myself I'd never be wrong and never learn. Kudos for everyones help!

 

[madmike2]

I also thought the lever adj. was just for ergonomics and didn't change the stroke of the piston? As such I have my levers at the closest position. I'll try moving my lever out a couple of clicks and see if I get more stroke out of the piston.

I don't know that the adjustment will change the stroke length. I believe you are correct about it changing the position of the lever thus the position of engagement.

Many of us have changed to aftermarket levers (I bought Pazzo levers) to change the angle for our antique aged wrists and fingers. Plust, they just feel and look so darned good!

 

[Fred W]

Yup, you'll want a gasket to get the clutch plates out. And don't worry, you aren't the first one (and probably won't be the last) to be confused by the "clutch soak" terminology bandied about here. I think it's a legacy term from other machines where the plates really were in need of soaking. In this case, the problem is that some of the plates are stuck together from the factory. Or more precisely, from the sitting around between the time it was originally assembled and finally sold.

Adjusting the levers doesn't change the stroke of the piston per se. That is, it won't effect the master / slave ratio. But if you have the levers at the closest position to the bars position, the piston's stroke will be limited by the lever hitting the bars. Adjusting the levers further out allows a longer total master cylinder stroke. As you adjust the lever further out it also moves the engagement zone further from the handle bars.

The Pazzo lever are trez chic, but at a hefty price tag.

 

[Draggon Rider]

What are the odds that the 2010 FJR is Black? It worked for '08 and '09, why not make it three years in a row.........

OH PLEASE! Not again. But how many years have they used Silver and dark Gray?

Ok my $.02. The talk about the poor economy and the poor cycle sales are relevant.

But considered that a redesign takes years to develope and if 2010 were to be a GEN III

the design rework would have started over a year ago.

But also consider that a company I use to work for spent years and millions of dollars developing a medical instrument,

when it was considered viable to market, the powers that be desided it would take over a million dollars

to market and the project was killed.

So if in fact the 2010 is a Gen III we may or may not see it.

A color change would be nice. Something in a paisly I think. :lol:

 

[radman]

I hate Frank, he's been a real pain in the ass, but I'm not solid on that yet-I'll put another 55k on 'im and get back to ya.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

What are the odds that the 2010 FJR is Black? It worked for '08 and '09, why not make it three years in a row.........

OH PLEASE! Not again. But how many years have they used Silver and dark Gray?

One thing I think MamaYama knows for-sure -- nobody in America wants a RED FJR....!

But considered that a redesign takes years to develope and if 2010 were to be a GEN IIIthe design rework would have started over a year ago.

But also consider that a company I use to work for spent years and millions of dollars developing ...viable to market,...dollars to market ...

One of the things that has drastically changed in the motor vehicle industry in the last decade, or so -- is the shortening of time from concept to vehicle on-the-street. Thanks to advances of CAD-CAM and related computer technologies.

Setting-up to manufacture something as complex as a motor vehicle (in quantity) may take some time? But, alot of the previously time-consuming operations have been really short-cut... :huh:

I think if MamaYama really wanted to do it? (like they always seem to want a new model Cruzer... :angry: ) -- it would happen

 

[Alakso]

In my defense I did say my clutch didn't need soaking as soaking is the wrong term being used here to denote cleaning the clutch plates. Also the clutch slave cyl. has X amount of linear throw and should return to it's "Home" after every actuation. So how is this self-adjusting? Or are you saying the hyd. clutch slave cyl. has a one-way valve that keep the piston extended to take up the slack between it and the pushrod?

 

[Alakso]

I also thought the lever adj. was just for ergonomics and didn't change the stroke of the piston? As such I have my levers at the closest position. I'll try moving my lever out a couple of clicks and see if I get more stroke out of the piston.

I don't know that the adjustment will change the stroke length. I believe you are correct about it changing the position of the lever thus the position of engagement.

Many of us have changed to aftermarket levers (I bought Pazzo levers) to change the angle for our antique aged wrists and fingers. Plust, they just feel and look so darned good!

The Pazzo lever look nice and the shorty brake lever would be perfect.

 

[Fred W]

In my defense I did say my clutch didn't need soaking as soaking is the wrong term being used here to denote cleaning the clutch plates. Also the clutch slave cyl. has X amount of linear throw and should return to it's "Home" after every actuation. So how is this self-adjusting? Or are you saying the hyd. clutch slave cyl. has a one-way valve that keep the piston extended to take up the slack between it and the pushrod?

Sort of. There is no "check valve", but the effect is exactly the same. The master cylinder only has a fixed stroke, but the slave is only driven through a segment of its possible stroke. It works the same as how with hydraulic disk brakes, as the brake pads wear the pedal doesn't get closer to the floor.

Alakso, normally we should have moved this discussion to a separate thread a while back as we've crashed this party pretty badly, but since this is in NEPRT anyway...

So, back on topic, maybe the 2010 will have adjustable Pazzo levers?

 

[Toecutter]

So, back on topic, maybe the 2010 will have adjustable Pazzo levers?

Definitely, no doubt about it. Of course, they'll be optional, as always....

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

So, back on topic, maybe the 2010 will have adjustable Pazzo levers?

Maybe the 'Ten' will have NO h/bar levers...?

An 'AE' with a good ABS computer wouldn't need any -- just "mash-wit-yer-foot" to stop....

 

[TheBlueStreak]

most 2010's come out this month so keep your eye's pealed at the yamaha site.

 

[Dallara]

~

Yamaha is having only regional dealer meetings this year for showing the 2010 product, instead of one big national one. Reportedly they start on Tuesday, Sept. 8th., so your local Yamaha dealer should have info on all the new 2010 models by sometime late next week.

And that includes even the wild new "reverse head" YZF-450 MX bike.

Just my opinion, but I also doubt very seriously that Yamaha will be bringing any new V-4 engine designs. Right now it seems Honda will be hanging their hat on some all new V-4's, and it seems doubtful that Yamaha would dare to follow along that path... Especially given that they run inline 4's in World Superbike and MotoGP, along with all the hype and promotion they've been giving the new R-1 and its "crossplane" crankshaft. Wouldn't be surprised to see the R-6 get the same crankshaft configuration (though it has been reported it won't for 2010), and even at some point all of Yamaha's inline 4's getting such a crank layout and firing order... Doesn't matter that such a crank configuration and firing order mimics a 90-degree V-4...

But I don't think the FJR will be getting such a crank arrangement anytime soon. No need for it. Smoothness is perceived as more important in a sport touring mount, and using the "crossplane" arrangement would require a re-design of not just the crank, but also of things like the counterbalancer set-up, etc. and maybe even the crankcases, exhaust, and other major components.

Personally I see the FJR getting only detail changes and minor improvements... Maybe as little as the classic "Bold New Graphics" makeover, though I am hoping for standard (or at least optional OEM) cruise control and better, more adjustable suspension components... Like real rebound and compression dampening adjustments on the rear shock complete with hydraulic preload adjustment. Honestly I don't want anything like BMW's ESA. Just a real, fully adjustable rear shock and forks to match. Hell, I'd love to see a full Ohlins suspension option for the FJR!

Dallara

~

 

[glory racing]

I'll be at the St. Louis area meeting Tuesday morning. When I get back home, if there is any good scoop that is not already out...I'll post up.

 

[2006FJR]

I'll be at the St. Louis area meeting Tuesday morning. When I get back home, if there is any good scoop that is not already out...I'll post up.

I can't wait. :yahoo: Bring back some good news.

 

[Toecutter]

Smoothness is perceived as more important in a sport touring mount, and using the "crossplane" arrangement would require a re-design of not just the crank, but also of things like the counterbalancer set-up, etc. and maybe even the crankcases, exhaust, and other major components.

What!?!? No 1700 cc V-4 and 7.5 gallon tank?

Well, could they at least re-design the cam chain tensioner?

And make the bike red?

 

[Fred W]

Well, could they at least re-design the cam chain tensioner?

Oh yeah, I can see that happening...

Yamaha Corporation, for immediate release.
For 2010, the FJR1300 receives a new and improved ratcheting cam chain tensioner. We don't believe that the prior version was bad, mind you, just thought we'd spruce up this invisible hardware for shits and grins...

Line forms to the rear for CCT replacements boys...