CBR1100XX

So I finally found another Silver Bird with low miles & a decent price. Its been a couple of years, but on the ride home I felt myself saying "Yamaha, why didn't you put an engine/tranny (6spd) like this in the FJR?" After all its been done as the XX is really '97 technology & '99 FI but the XX's engine/tranny is silky smooth. In my opinion no massaging necessary - just put the engine/tranny as is into the FJR chassis - voila, the perfect sport-tourer.

Oh well, I guess more people wanted more weight, mandatory ABS, longer swing arm and let's not forget the "automatic." Hee, hee.

Not saying my FJR will be sold anytime soon, but give me a bike with the above description and it will be. Kawasaki - are you listening? Nobody else is. Seems like Kawi's closest to the possiblility with a derivative of the fugly ZX-14. They were moving in the right direction with the ZZR-1200, but not quite. I've given up on Honda...the recent Cycle World "computer-generated" photo & challenge to Honda will amount to nothing but a pipe dream.

TahoeBound said:

just put the engine/tranny as is into the FJR chassis - voila, the perfect sport-tourer.

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Two words: chain drive

+1 Bounce....maintenance B)

Bounce said:

TahoeBound said:

just put the engine/tranny as is into the FJR chassis - voila, the perfect sport-tourer.

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Two words: chain drive

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They still make chain drive bikes??

TahoeBound:

+1 on Mr. Dos Equis. But, like mentioned by others, it has that one flaw (at least as far as high mileage, high performance sport-touring is concerned). A friend was selling bikes at a Yamaha dealership when the GTS1000 was released. He said, "Here's your next bike." When I saw that it was chain driven, as much as I liked the concept, I crossed it off. Another friend was recently shopping for a new bike. In a discussion with friends he said it had to have, "Non-negotiable shaft drive." I could go on -- but, you get the point....

In support of the Super Blackbird: Last Fall a few long-time friends were at a weekend rally and were out for a group ride together. There were a couple new purchases in the group (CBR1100XX and R1100S) along with a couple lookers-for-new-bikes. At a few of the stops bikes were swapped and re-swapped. Everyone was impressed by the XX! Honda should do what you want. I think it's a matter of the small niche sport-touring has in the U.S. and some companies are spoiled by bases-loaded home runs (and attendant wind-fall profits) and couldn't care less about repeated base hits (aka, Kawi Concours).

I've had a 'Bird for 5 years and 28000 miles, I love it!

But, I ordered a FJR a while ago and pick it up in two weeks, I will keep both and mod the heck out of the FJR with Dale's help and group buys.

I was hooked when I sat on a '05!

Dave

I've given up on Honda...the recent Cycle World "computer-generated" photo & challenge to Honda will amount to nothing but a pipe dream.

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TohoeBound,

Not time to despair yet, there may yet be a new XX in your future. See below:

Motorcycle Daily - Honda CBR1100XX

I need to clarify - internal transmission, not external drive is what I want to keep. I too love shaft drive on the FJR & in fact, was one of the reasons I purchased my '04. I agree, a serious sport-tourer requires shaft drive. Talk to WarChild though, he's still doing LDs on his XX :blink: But yes, keep the shaft.

My point of "as-is" is a silky-smooth 6 speed. The XX's engine/tranny is perfect in my opinion. For instance, the FJR "clunks" into 1st. Not the XX. At 70-75 you feel buzz on the FJR - the XX is near glass. Ride an XX if you get a chance. Pay attention to the effortless acceleration and overall polish (don't think bent over and chain). Then you'll see my point of merging the best of both worlds:

"...just put the engine/tranny [internal] as is into the FJR chassis [keep the shaft] - voila, the perfect sport-tourer..."

And yes, there was an implication that although its great Yamaha is updating, I feel that with some things on the '06 they've gone in the wrong direction & moved away from what previously made the FJR stand out - which was the emphasis of "sport" in sport-tour.

Mike-H said:

+1 Bounce....maintenance B)

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This is a non-issue nowadays, gentlemen.

My Blackbird doesn't have any problems racking up 1500-mile days, and aside from a brief glance at it while refueling, I never give the chain at second thought.

The electronic Pro-Oiler is fully automatic, and most definitely works as advertised:

Personally, I have had 2 shaft drives and I bought the bikes for other reasons and the shaft drive just came with the package. I see very few benefits of a shaft, I don't find maintaining a chain hard at all. Changing the oil, lubing the gears, removal of the rear tire all are more difficult than adjusting slack on a chain, changing sprockets, and lubing the chain.

The device that Warchild has makes a chain look even easier. If I could have bought an FJR with a Chain I would have that bike in a second.

My $0.02 is that you're associating the overall smoothness and polish of the XX with the transmission where the transmission has very little to do with it.

There are a variety of reasons why the XX is a smoother bike than the FJR: smaller displacement, more sophisticated counter-balancing system, smaller windshield/fairing, simpler chain drive, etc. Drop the XX's transmission in a FJR (if such a thing were possible which is really isn't) and the bike would change slightly, but it wouldn't change a heavy-weight sport-touring bike into a medium-weight sport GT bike. They're completely different animals.

I'd also like to point out that the XX is off the market due to poor sales while FJR sales continue to increase. This doesn't point to Yamaha moving the FJR to being more of a GT bike as a smart move. There are three bikes in this space now (Busa, ZX14, K1200S) with another probably in the wings from Honda. This is probably more than enough to saturate this market.

While I'd like to see a 6-speed in the FJR also, it's really a cost/benefit tradeoff for Yamaha and the bike doesn't have a glaring need for one. And folks, you have no idea what a major engineering change this would be, easily as significant (and expensive) as making a major displacement change or completely revising some other major aspect of the engine. Today's modern unit-construction motorcycles with integrated engines and transmissions are highly optimized pieces with no wasted space. And transmissions are one of the most cost-intensive and design-intensive parts of any motorcycle - a change to a six speed would involve literally millions of dollars in design work and tooling. Don't hold your breath.

You don't just "drop in" a transmission from another bike.

- Mark

Dale's poetic praise of the Blackbird got me interested in the bike. One ride and I ended up buying 2- '03 models. One to farkle and ride, and a Brand new 0 mile model to put away, unridden for safekeeping!

You can still buy a few brand new 2003s from a few dealers for about $9,000 full OEM warranty included.

While I feel a bit old and out of place to riding a Busa, the classy XX suits me just fine. A few more farkles and it will be another perfect ride.

The chain drive is certainly no big maintenance problem either, particularly when Dale does the GB for the Pro Oiler (what's the hold up, BTW? ).

You don't just "drop in" a transmission from another bike.

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MarkJenn - oh come on. You're taking this far too literal and missing the point! Dreamin' is free and its my dream! And absolutely the tranny [perhaps internal gears is more accurate as I tried to elude to above] is part of the overall smoothness, polish and refinement of the XX. What, are you kidding me? Drop the FJR into first and the clunk is darn near Harley-esque! That my friend is industrial, blue-collar and the antithesis of refined.

I've owned two of each (XX & FJR) and although the FJR's engine/tranny is pretty good it pales in comparison to the mighty XX in almost every category (how 'bout longevity/no tickers, quarter-mile time, roll-on @ any speed, 6-speeds, smooth/refined/polished feel accelerating & "snicking" into gear, and vibration (read: almost none) ). These points are not debatable, they are fact. Go ride one and then let's talk about how you'd construct your perfect sport-tourer .

People (sport-tourers) may dismiss the XX's engine simply because its in a sport bike/GT chassis, but in my opinion & that of many others, its about a perfect engine for sport-touring. Saddle it with 100lbs more and shaft drive (read: FJR) and it'll still shine.

I'd also like to point out that the XX is off the market due to poor sales while FJR sales continue to increase. This doesn't point to Yamaha moving the FJR to being more of a GT bike as a smart move.

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Yep. Here's where I agree with you. Like I said, although I don't like Yamaha's move to be more "tour" oriented, more people apparently do and thats why Yamaha did. Be careful though with FJR sales numbers - they are not a runaway best seller by any stretch of the imagination. After all, we still have the misfortune of the PDP. I read recently the 'Busa sales numbers were 10,000 units in the US last year. If memory serves me correctly, the FJR numbers were only a small fraction of that.

As far as GT, unfortunately, us Americans have to have the fastest or best & the XX couldn't compete with 186mph, after all a top speed of 176 is slow! :lol: I'll point out Europe, who's always been more sport-tour oriented than us, still get new XXs with several color choices no less and optional OEM hardbags. Suffice to say, Europeans get what the XX is so good at.

You can still buy a few brand new 2003s from a few dealers

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And Toynut - do you know of any place in Prunieville (CA) that a new XX may be had? I've monitored for months & all I saw was 1 in Colorado and 1 in Florida. I'm limited to CA because of DMV.

I bought mine last November from East Coast Cycle in Bensalem, PA (215) 639-3100. They still had a few new ones left at the time. I had it shipped to Michigan for about $800. I believe that some of the forum members on the CBR1100xx.org forum may know of a dealer or two on the west coast that might have new crated 2003 models left to sell. East Coast Cycle told me that they bought the last 50 crated XX's from the east coast Honda warehouse a while back. I'm sure they have not bothered to buy up California emission-spec models from California Honda warehouse.

I'm sure that the Busa popularity had an impact on XX sales. They seem to be more tailor-made for +40- year olds looking for a bit of comfort and finesse (like the FJR), and not just outright, king of the hill power.

If the future holds promise for a NEW Blackbird, I'm sure I will be one of the first (right behind Dale), to buy one. :lol:

I had a rare 2001 candy red XX also. I sold for the FJR. It was a flawless bike. I also sold them here in Denver at a big dealership and they were very hard to sell. Too many buyers in this segment want only the fastest model available. I had some custom footpeg brackets made for 1'' more legroom and Heli-bars so it was pretty comfortable. I bought the FJR for more two up comfort.

Warchild said:

Mike-H said:

+1 Bounce....maintenance B)

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This is a non-issue nowadays, gentlemen.

My Blackbird doesn't have any problems racking up 1500-mile days, and aside from a brief glance at it while refueling, I never give the chain at second thought.<snippage>

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I often hear this sentiment expressed. I guess it must be like miles per gallon or tire life? -- YMMV! Some of us are no strangers to long distance high speed motorcycling over (somewhat) long durations w/inclement weather -- and, (IMO) chain cleaning, lubing, adjusting, replacing (along w/sprockets) is a considerable (and unnecessary) PITA. I do it when there's no other way -- and maybe? a case could be made for the Blackbird that there is "No other way" -- but, when there's a bike like the FJR; that clean, quiet (and maintenence free) driveshaft just makes so much sense to me.

But, like they say on these forums -- YMMV.

charismaticmegafauna said:

Warchild said:

Mike-H said:

+1 Bounce....maintenance B)

Click to expand...

This is a non-issue nowadays, gentlemen.

My Blackbird doesn't have any problems racking up 1500-mile days, and aside from a brief glance at it while refueling, I never give the chain at second thought.<snippage>

Click to expand...

I often hear this sentiment expressed. I guess it must be like miles per gallon or tire life? -- YMMV! Some of us are no strangers to long distance high speed motorcycling over (somewhat) long durations w/inclement weather -- and, (IMO) chain cleaning, lubing, adjusting, replacing (along w/sprockets) is a considerable (and unnecessary) PITA. I do it when there's no other way -- and maybe? a case could be made for the Blackbird that there is "No other way" -- but, when there's a bike like the FJR; that clean, quiet (and maintenence free) driveshaft just makes so much sense to me.

But, like they say on these forums -- YMMV.

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How often do you change the fluid in your shaft. Book says every other oil change I do it every oil change just so I don't miss one.

3000 miles with a chain and no maintenance is not out of the ordinary. If you are not dropping the clutch all the time and stretching the chain it doesn't need adjusting often either if proper lubing is done.

With the setup Warchild has with the auto lubing it reduces this dramatically I would guess.

Cleaning, stop using that PJ1 crap that attracts dirt like a freaking magnet. Using regular oil, DW30, even gun oil all work great and with the auto system no need to worry about it evaporating as it is constantly replentished.

You want to know my real grip with shaft, No flexibility.

On my dirt bikes and many other street bikes if I want more highway, with lower rpms, saving gas, I could change the sprocket/gearing and get lower rpm's while increasing top end speed.

On my dirt bikes if I wanted more low end grunt, change the sprocket.

On the FJR you have nothing and are stuck with what you got.

Plus if I break a chain, which I have never done, replacing it is easy.

Try breaking a shaft, which has been done, and it is a real PITA.

How often do you change your tires? If you do any of this yourself, I would want a chain anyday.

The shaft just doesn't give me any benefits as I am not a long distance rider but so many of these bikes are turning to it because so many people are too lazy to oil a freaking chain...

sparky3008 said:

<snip>....I would want a chain anyday.The shaft just doesn't give me any benefits as I am not a long distance rider but so many of these bikes are turning to it because so many people are too lazy to oil a freaking chain...

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A classic case of "mileage variation" -- seems to me.

charismaticmegafauna said:

sparky3008 said:

<snip>....I would want a chain anyday.

The shaft just doesn't give me any benefits as I am not a long distance rider but so many of these bikes are turning to it because so many people are too lazy to oil a freaking chain...

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A classic case of "mileage variation" -- seems to me.

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And there you go, wonder how many who really own this bike really do long distance?

Maybe Toecutter is right and I shouldn't have bought it