AE shifting and 1st gear engagement problem solved - incorrect engine oil viscosity

[FJRPittsburgh]

Brodie,  Glad to hear you at least temporarily solved the Sh 37 fiasco.  I'm riding the FJR down to EOM next week.  I always dread the longer trips with the shift problem I have on the AE.  When you get to replacing the parts on your bike, I'll be waiting to hear if it solves the downshifting to 1st issue.  When all the AE shifting components work, it's the best bike on the planet.

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Could one of you give me a list of the actual parts I'd need to redo the master and slave clutch cylinders and what rubber hose needs to be purchased to do the job correctly?  Wow, got that all in one run on sentence!

 

[Brodie]

Here is what I have sitting on my workbench waiting to be installed...



Hope this helps. 

Brodie

 

[Brodie]

Here’s an interesting datapoint...

Nine days ago I serviced my electrical connectors with Silicone Dielectric grease, and weatherproofed the leads entering into the shifter servo motor.  The pictures below show the repair. Since then I attended YFO and put nearly a thousand miles on the bike, and it has behaved itself. No delayed shift that I can recall. 

Just food for thought.

Brodie

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

I'm attending Geek's tech day this coming weekend.  We'll pull the shift servo motor, clean the contacts and smother it with dielectric grease.  If that works, great!  Otherwise, that bridge will be crossed and I can move on to the other fixes listed above.  It sure will be nice to have that AE working well again.  Then on to a new rear shock and some LED lighting for the rear bags and useless OEM trunk.

 

[Brodie]

When you pull it, look for broken or damaged plastic at this location shown in the pictures. Mine broke because I wasn’t that careful handling the main wire harness routed next to it while doing other work in the area. 
Also, when you reinstall the shift mechanism, Be sure to realign the 5mm hole in the link arm with the corresponding blind drilled hole in the aluminium cover plate shown in the top picture.  

Good luck. 

Brodie

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Thanks Brodie!  Really good advice there.  We'll take it apart and put it together a few times until it works.    I'm not sure I see the 5mm hole.  Oh, I think I see it to the right of the spines.

 

[Brodie]

That’s the hole! 
Before you take it apart, have a good look at the alignment between the two holes. Ideally you should be able to pass a 5mm pin through the shift actuator arm and this hole. If its out of alignment at rest, the adjustment is made by the linkage. It has a right hand and left hand threads just like a turnbuckle. 
Good luck with it, and remember...

... “If no pictures, it didn’t happen.”

Brodie

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Is the broken plastic piece you're talking about explains why there's a zip tie on the contact plug?  Or is the zip tie a stock masterpiece?

 

[Brodie]

The zip tie is stock cord management for this piece. 

In my case, I have so many other wires and such in that area it put stress on the plastic while I was servicing other items - or perhaps I broke it while I tried to gain access to the air filter. The bloody thing is in the way of the air box cover, and I may have been too rough with it.

Brodie

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Sorry for so many questions Brodie.  One more for you.  Did you have to take off the swing arm to access the removal of the shift actuator?  I have the full service manual which states swing arm removal.  The service manual has suggested removing more than needed to access parts in the past.  Thanks again for being so helpful.  I'm glad you fixed or temporarily fixed your shifting issue.  Believe me, I know how disappointing it is to live with this shifting issue when you know how great the fully functional AE is.

 

[Brodie]

The shift actuator has the linkage attached to it. Remove this linkage from the splined shaft, the two pan head screws attaching it to the sub frame, disconnect the two wire pigtails and you are now able to remove it and set it on your work bench - its that straightforward; I do it every time I service the air filter element. The hydraulic unit is the one which requires dropping the swing arm for its removal. However, removal is not necessary in order to replace the integrated master cylinder guts, and/or the hydraulic line. It is not a perfect design, but my impression is that the engineers at Yamaha spent some time turning wrenches, and it shows in what they produce.

Hope this helps.

Brodie

 

[Brodie]

By the way, the jury is still out on my repair on the electrical component. I will fabricate the angle bracket for the 1 inch travel indicator and mag. base, so the clutch throw can be measured as per the service manual. I have the replacement parts, now its just a matter of taking the time to perform the service.

Brodie

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Brodie,  I pinched the clutch hose to remove the slave cylinder before.  It appears that no clutch fluid has to be drained to get the shift actuator out, correct?  I'm going to end up bleeding the clutch fluid anyway.

 

[Brodie]

The shift actuator has nothing to do with the clutch hydraulic system. Just a couple of bolts and its out.

Brodie

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

OK!  Removed the shift actuator this evening.  All connections looked extremely clean.  I smeared some dielectric grease liberally on the connectors of the 2 pigtails and around that connection where the zip tie is located.  I could see nothing wrong with any of the connections.  Put everything back together not expecting any change in the shifting from 2nd to 1st.  And I was right.  There's no way that what I did to perfectly clean connectors was going to affect anything.  I'm happy I went through the exercise though.  I'm confident that nothing could be improved from the way it was and that takes that off the list.  Unless I need a new actuator.  LOL

The next culprit will be the clutch slave cylinder.  I'll remove that and take the piston apart and clean it.  Then apply a little of the dot 4 on the seal and put it back together.  If that doesn't do it, then we're on to rebuilding the clutch master cylinder and buying a new slave cylinder.  It's so strange to be trying to solve this shift issue when the motor runs like a top and the rest of the bike is a dream.  I'm sure I'll get to the bottom of this shifting issue thanks to Brodie and Oakdave.

Brodie, Thanks again for taking the time to answer all of my questions.  I wanted to be sure I was doing the correct thing when working on the clutch and shifting components for the first time.  Truth is, I've done a couple of clutch soaks in the past.  First time working on the other side of the bike.  I owe you a few beers if you even drink beer.  Thanks again for your patience.

 

[Oakdave]

OK!  Removed the shift actuator this evening.  All connections looked extremely clean.  I smeared some dielectric grease liberally on the connectors of the 2 pigtails and around that connection where the zip tie is located.  I could see nothing wrong with any of the connections.  Put everything back together not expecting any change in the shifting from 2nd to 1st.  And I was right.  There's no way that what I did to perfectly clean connectors was going to affect anything.  I'm happy I went through the exercise though.  I'm confident that nothing could be improved from the way it was and that takes that off the list.  Unless I need a new actuator.  LOL

The next culprit will be the clutch slave cylinder.  I'll remove that and take the piston apart and clean it.  Then apply a little of the dot 4 on the seal and put it back together.  If that doesn't do it, then we're on to rebuilding the clutch master cylinder and buying a new slave cylinder.  It's so strange to be trying to solve this shift issue when the motor runs like a top and the rest of the bike is a dream.  I'm sure I'll get to the bottom of this shifting issue thanks to Brodie and Oakdave.

Brodie, Thanks again for taking the time to answer all of my questions.  I wanted to be sure I was doing the correct thing when working on the clutch and shifting components for the first time.  Truth is, I've done a couple of clutch soaks in the past.  First time working on the other side of the bike.  I owe you a few beers if you even drink beer.  Thanks again for your patience.

Regarding bleeding/replacing the clutch fluid on the 'AE' model (e.g.,  if/when you get to doing the slave cylinder): Several members on this forum, having experience with the 'AE' model, claim it is possible to adequately bleed the clutch system without having to remove the swing arm.  I tend to agree with them.  I have performed clutch bleeds on my AE using both methods at different times -- (a) via removal of the swing arm so as to get to the 'bolt' on the clutch master cylinder that the service manual states requires turning turning clockwise and counterclockwise... back and forth...so as to engage and then disengage the clutch during the 'bleeding' process and (b) by NOT removing the swing arm but, rather, by just turning on (and off) the ignition switch with the transmission in neutral as a means of engaging/disengaging the clutch.  Across those two methods --swing are removed vs not removed-- I have not noticed afterward any differences in clutch operation, functionality, stability, nor fluid retention.  On this basis--when it comes to clutch fluid bleeding-- I recommend going about it the easy way (no swing arm removal)...unless you have some other reason for removing the swing arm.  Of course, if there is/are any times that the swing arm should need to be removed for other reason/s, then of course I think it's a smart idea to do a clutch bleed at that/those times (and turn the little bolt back and forth on the clutch master cylinder).  That's my two cents on this matter.  

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Thanks Oakdave!  I appreciate the advice.  I've owned 2 AE's over 11 years and have bled the clutch fluid multiple times with success.  I never have removed the swing arm.  I've had plenty of success with a mity vac while shifting the gears.  Brodie gave me clarification on using the on/off key method a few months ago.  I used that method the last time I bled the clutch system.  Even using that method,  I still get the delay downshifting from 2nd to 1st gear.  This weekend I'm headed to a tech day and I'm going to take a better look at the slave cylinder.  I'll remove the piston and carefully inspect the seal.  If there's any build up in there, I'll clean that up.  If the slave cylinder ends up looking clean as a whistle, I'll probably buy a new one and replace it since it isn't all that much money.

Thanks so much for being the originator of this thread as it's been very helpful.  Please keep us updated on any future reports of how your AE is shifting.  If you have anything else to add about other possible fixes for this issue, I'd love to hear your advice.  I'll report back on what I see in the slave cylinder and the outcome.  Have a great weekend!

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

Just got back from a 500 mile ride.  The bike only delayed downshifting from 2nd to first once.  Evidently disconnecting the connections to the actuator and reconnecting them with dielectric grease did do something positive.  I decided not to take the clutch slave cylinder apart at tech day since I was so far from home and didn't want to get stranded.  I'll work on that next.

 

[Brodie]

Good to hear you see improvement. This may be electrical instead of mechanical/hydraulic. Mine has as yet to delay a shift since I serviced my electrical connectors within the bowels of the bike. 
 

I still plan to remove the front bodywork to access the rest of the connectors for servicing. It’s been my experience that they gain resistance with continuous exposure to the air; oxides forming on the surfaces creating a slight barrier for the electrons to pass through. By disconnecting and reconnecting, the contacts scrape enough to brighten the connection and allow easier flow of electricity. The grease just coats the exposed surfaces to keep the oxides from forming. 
 

I believe these electronic systems use variations in voltage from a common reference voltage to signal logic states within their programming. By servicing these connectors we are restoring the conditions the engineers had in mind when they designed them. I choose a silicone dielectric grease mainly to keep the pins isolated from each other within the connector. Its served me well so far. 

YMMV

Brodie