ECU flash for smoothness in 09 FJR?

[extrememarine]

This thread caught my eye this morning and I read through it. I have a 2009 (but non-CA); this is my 2nd 2009 FJR. Both '09's had / have a Power Commander V installed (I ran a PCIII on my 2004 FJR as well).

If I recall correctly, the PC-V has some added features over the PCIII, which include running 2 maps, connecting to their quick shifter and also tuning ignition (for turbo applications). In my case, I run 2 maps - one is a bone stock fuel map and the second is a custom fuel map (tuned to smooth out the off to maintenance throttle to on throttle in the mid range rpm's).

From what you describe, it's not normal FJR behavior. Even with the stock fuel map active on my bike, it pulls smoothly from idle to WOT. There is a prodecure to check the TPS (throttle position sensor) in diagnostics mode on the LCD read out of the bike. That would be one place to start. Then rule out other basics as others have suggested (spark plugs, air filter, TBS(throttle body sync) and fresh fuel.

In the Gen 2's (2006 and up), the 2007 was known for poor fueling and the "altitude sickness" ECU issue(there was a recall for this I believe), with a Power Commander (with a smoothness map) and the G2 Throttle Tamer helping smooth things out. The 2008 was better, and by the 2009, things were pretty sorted out (fueling wise) from what I remember. I don't know if the CA only models had any additionally issues.

Anyways - I wanted to point out that with any Power Commander (whether the PC3 or PC5), the key will be the map that you load into it. There are maps from Power Commander, and there have been ones shared elsewhere (Wally's smoothness map).

I'd also suggest trying to connect with one of the local tech day gatherings - lot's of experience available at those events to help trouble shooting.

Good luck!

Wayne

 

[blakmambo]

@extrememarine:

Thanks for the thoughts . . . "smoothness" mapping is definitely what I would want and likely it would be the PCFC for the "cheaper" option that I would be looking for . . . but, to quote the famous line, "We aren't in Kansas any more Toto . . . this is CARB country we're in . . ." meaning that CA has extra special rules to reduce emissions that manufacturers have to adhere to . . . and, indeed, that might be coupled with some other issues, like dealerships that don't know to kick the idle up a bit, don't know about setting TBS at 4K . . . and or potential TPS issues . . . all combining to make a very **lean** condition for on/off throttle . . . . Back in the day on my 86 Konk, the first thing one of my mechanics did to it was to drill through the adjustment screw caps to "richen" the mixture, as well as changing the main jets and other stuff that could be done . . . by hand . . . to make it run better, etc . . . now requires expensive software . . . that isn't available by direct mail to CA.

But, this new mechanic basically dashed "ALL newer Yamahas I've ridden are like that . . . ." so I don't think this bike is actually "special" in that regard . . . key point--in CA . . . . But, glad to know that 50 state FJRs are not like this . . . if I ever leave here I could consider checking one out . . . but, still looks like I'd be getting to the PC options to make it "smooth" . . . so after I look into the TPS diagnostic procedure I'll be chasing after the PC option . . . .

 

[BanjoBoy]

@extrememarine:
Thanks for the thoughts . . . "smoothness" mapping is definitely what I would want and likely it would be the PCFC for the "cheaper" option that I would be looking for . . . but, to quote the famous line, "We aren't in Kansas any more Toto . . . this is CARB country we're in . . ." meaning that CA has extra special rules to reduce emissions that manufacturers have to adhere to . . . and, indeed, that might be coupled with some other issues, like dealerships that don't know to kick the idle up a bit, don't know about setting TBS at 4K . . . and or potential TPS issues . . . all combining to make a very **lean** condition for on/off throttle . . . . Back in the day on my 86 Konk, the first thing one of my mechanics did to it was to drill through the adjustment screw caps to "richen" the mixture, as well as changing the main jets and other stuff that could be done . . . by hand . . . to make it run better, etc . . . now requires expensive software . . . that isn't available by direct mail to CA.

But, this new mechanic basically dashed "ALL newer Yamahas I've ridden are like that . . . ." so I don't think this bike is actually "special" in that regard . . . key point--in CA . . . . But, glad to know that 50 state FJRs are not like this . . . if I ever leave here I could consider checking one out . . . but, still looks like I'd be getting to the PC options to make it "smooth" . . . so after I look into the TPS diagnostic procedure I'll be chasing after the PC option . . . .

Yer mechanic is prolly right, 'cuz my little FZ6 was herky-jerky on/off throttle too, but since it isn't nearly as powerful as the FJR, it wasn't as bad. But after seeing what an improvement the PCFC made with the FJR, I dun got me one for the FZ6 too. The on/off throttle is much improved, and there's more power all the way through the RPM range.

I'm in northern Kalifornia, and bought my both my PCFCs here a couple years ago. Even though they say they won't ship here, for shits 'n giggles, try buying the thing, and see what happens; could be they just write that as a legal thang?

And as I'm pecking this out, reflecting on last week when I dun rode up to Oregon to help out a fellow fjrforum member; my FJR ran a lot better on Oregon gas; I think the Kalifornia shit gas might contribute to the herky-jerkyness too?

 

[blakmambo]

@BanjoBoy:

CA "shit gas" ??? well, right, another aspect to the CARB influence . . . but I only run the finest offerings from Chevron in my FJR, unless I'm on the road . . . otherwise, it only gets "premium" grade gas . . . . : - 0

But, thanks, yeah I'm going to look into the PCFC item . . . I might get "red-flagged" because I'm in metro LA . . . but worth trying it out . . . better than bothering the parents about something they don't really appreciate . . . .

 

[blakmambo]

Even though they say they won't ship here, for shits 'n giggles, try buying the thing, and see what happens; could be they just write that as a legal thang?And as I'm pecking this out, reflecting on last week when I dun rode up to Oregon to help out a fellow fjrforum member; my FJR ran a lot better on Oregon gas; I think the Kalifornia shit gas might contribute to the herky-jerkyness too?

@BanjoBoy:

Just to report that I did take a few minutes yesterday afternoon to "place my order" via eBay, and it all seemed to "go well" . . . but sometime in the night I got an email saying "your order has been cancelled, no reasons provided" . . . so it seems that the "we don't sell to CA" error warning is "serious". . . now for plan B???

 

[kmanflyer]

Here is a Gen 2 PCV in the for sale section https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/176676-power-commander-v-for-gen-ii/ PM him for more info.

 

[blakmambo]

Latest update:

Thanks to BanjoBoy for his advice and instruction I managed to get my "non-CARB" approved PCFC installed today. Once the tank and T-Bar and seat bracket were removed it was a pretty straight-forward installation. I found running the cable from the **right** side over to the connector made the most sense as far as there isn't a whole lot of room in there, but, the PCFC just "splices" into the connector, very simple install. The instruction videos for the PC V make it seem like it's "tricky" to feed the ground wire up to the negative battery pole, really not a problem.

Bike fired right up when I got the tank back on, ran smoothly up to 5 grand or so . . . have neighbors all around . . . from a seat of the pants viewpoint it seems to be better on the low end compared to stock where there was a really bad stumble in the CARB compliant OEM mapping. Too busy in the area to run the bike out unless I just want to sit in traffic . . . have to let it go until next Sat to get it out for the test run. Thanks to everyone who commented or contributed to the conversation.

 

[BanjoBoy]

Yay, glad it worked for you, here's a better pic of my settings for you and others in the future.

The white screw is for different maps, but I found their stock map with some tweaks worked best. My MPG is 'bout the same as stock, butt the dreaded herky-jerky off on throttle is gone, 'n I think there's a little more juice on top too.

 

[HyperPete]

Hey blakmambo, I'm really late to this party, but here is some info for you to chew on since you already seem to have found your cure. (And I'm glad that you did!)

The "correct" way to setup a fuel tuner is on a dyno. The results are very much dependent upon the skills of the tuner. This is not saying that you cannot dial your bike in manually by trial and error, as you and BanjoBoy are doing and have done, but using a dyno you can tweak everything and see results on a screen to ensure it is what you want. That costs $$$!

My Gen 1 and gen 3 are both stock, and they run well (knock on wood), but I am also on the RIGHT coast. I learned about fuel tuners, dynos, and ECU flashes with my M109R, a V-Twin 1800. I changed intakes and exhausts, making it run really lean. I went with a Dynojet PC III and got a $250 Dyno tune that was way too rich. ("Fat is where it's at" the guy kept saying.) More modifications, and another $200 tune ("Lean is Mean" was THIS guy's mantra) and it ran better, but I also had your herky-jerky low end throttle response.

NEXT, I went with a Cobra autotuner, and it was "OK", but nothing spectacular, and I still had the jerky throttle response.

FINALLY, I yanked out the autotuner and went to a local tuner who flashed my ECU, removed the top end limit, disabled the Suzuki SET valve and timing retard at low RPM, plus a few other tweaks. He then tuned the Air/fuel mixture over the entire throttle range, and added fuel at the low end fuel cut which nearly eliminated throttle braking at low RPM. It took me a lot of time and money, but it gave me the ride-ability I wanted. (Also 124 HP / 110 torque on a hot/humid day, not too shabby for a V-twin cruiser.)

I think that you really lucked out here with the input you recieved, and the fuel tuner you ended up with. I'll continue to watch for the good news I'm sure you'll be posting after next Saturday's run.

Cheers!

 

[blakmambo]

@HyperPete:

Well, thanks for stopping by, a little late to the party . . . the drinks are gone, and all of the good snacks also gone . . . but there are some chips and salsa over by the ice cube tray . . . .

But, if you read through the posts here you can see there are a range of comments from, "It's not the bike, it's you" . . . to then the other guy from CA who "gets it" as far as the "Beyond lean is no longer mean, it's wack" situation goes. I think in the thread the ECU flash option isn't available for Gen 2 . . . "yet" or ever, and starting price over $100 more than BanjoBoy's PCFC option . . . . And, then, sure, in the ideal world there would be a guy with a roving dyno who would stop by and throw a tune on a bike, "just to make it right, because of how wrong Yammie sets the bike up . . . " i.e., for cheap.

It's in the ballpark right now, based upon BB's latest photo I have a couple of small changes to try out, and then, first flight. I don't really need top end hit, out here too many LEOs to make that do-able without expensive roadside chat . . . just like BB, the "smooth yet efficient on gas mileage" is what I'm looking for . . . so if I can mimic what he is showing it might be close enough for jazz until my next valve check, then might be the pros from Dover can fiddle with it . . . stick their finger in the tailpipe to check for accuracy, etc.

 

[blakmambo]

Alrighty, got the 09er out for a test run this am, along the mini-freeway that is PCH in coastal LA . . . and, indeed the PCFC does take out the dread inducing herky-jerky power curve and makes it "predictable" . . . which I'm still not used to this new behavior.

Still have some re-learning to do on the bike, but for "bang for the buck" the PCFC is "most excellent."

I'll post back after I get a few more miles down on it . . . .

 

[BanjoBoy]

I ride over St Helena a couple times a week, 'n used to "dread" it too, 'til I got the PCFC.

Tight 2nd gear switchbacks, whilst scraping pegs is pleasure now.