New Bike Choice

[SacramentoMike]

No SOUL?? Can't agree. My first one had me in the first thousand rpm's. But I do reluctantly sometimes think about what next? What can I give up? That power? The weather protection? Storage and cargo space? Boy, I dunno.

Good discussion, though.

 

[Bugnatr]

Quick story, my 18 Wing windscreen motor started to fail. Honda stepped up and replaced the motor just in time before my 6,600 mile ride to SFO in October. We had rain, bugs, wind and all that one would encounter on a ride and every time I made small or large adjustments in the windscreen I gave a small thought of thanks to my local shop for fixing this problem.

Manuel windscreen would have me walking away, no way do I want to stop and adjust the windscreen just because it started to rain or riding by cattle pasture with the bugs as thick as flies on ...well you know.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

The very biggest knock on the FJR from non-believers is that it has no soul.

I get that, I say of my 2015 ES that it's only fault is that it lacks character. Also, while I think it is an attractive motorcycle from 20 feet away I don't find much mechanical art when I look closely. However, the bike just works so well that I can easily overlook those attributes and just enjoy riding it.

My "character" comparison uses bikes I have owned over the past 10 years (I am old enough that when I started riding everything had "character"): Triumph Rocket III Roadster, Moto Guzzi Griso 1200, Ducati Monster 1200S, Triumph Street Triple 675R. A couple of these had character that caused me to get rid of them (Rocket III & Monster) and a couple are still in my garage (Griso & ST675).

At the time I was buying my FJR I also considered the Concours, but I suppose it is getting long in the tooth at this point. I had a 1000 Concours that I bought in 1988 that served me well for many years (I think I sold it in 2011, although it sat unused for the last few years).

I have been tempted by BMWs as well. I still have not owned a 6 cylinder motorcycle so the K1600 has called me a couple times (the anticipated complexity and cost of ownership has always brought me back to reality). I was thinking that the R1250RS had less fairing coverage than an FJR but someone in this thread (with experience) claimed they are similar. I'm a little wary of the VTEC, sorry I mean Shift Cam system, although I haven't heard of any problems.

I have yet to ride a current generation Gold Wing but it appears they are too far touring biased for my preferences. One thing that I absolutely love about the FJR is the bag liner: when I stop for the night I just pull the liner out of one side and have everything I need. I don't think that the shape of the new Wing allows a similar liner that would work as easily (maybe an owner will tell me I'm wrong).

It is a fun subject to think about and has generated a lively thread. Good luck with your search!

Steven

 

[sloppy]

I never understood the term "no soul or no character". Those terms seem to come from H-D owners that would buy a moped if it was painted black and orange and had a Harley sticker on it.

 

[SwollenRaccoon]

Soul. Hmmmm, almost 100% subjective. Everyone has a different idea of what constitutes or defines "soul", I guess. Vibration, sound, "feel"? I rode a buddy's K1200GT about eight or nine years ago, and he rode my 2008 FJR. If I had to ride from Boise to Duluth in two days, the GT would probably be the choice. Electric-smooth motor, comfortable seating position, and many amenities. It lacked low-to-mid-range torque, according to my butt dyno, but had a more pronounced top end rush than the FJR. When we stopped to swap back to our own bikes, my buddy said "Hell, that's a SPORT bike!" I wouldn't go that far, but it was definitely more sports-oriented than his GT. For ME, the better mid-range torque and handling are much more useful and entertaining than what his GT had.
But I digress. Soul. Ride along with me for a couple miles, if you will. County I and II, across the river five miles from Wabasha, MN (Fill in your favorite stretch of road here, one that you know like the lines on the face of that ugly mug in the mirror). Accelerating through the first three or four gears, up to around 6k on the tach, then back off, stab a downshift, and listen to the exhaust growl on overrun, and the intake howl when you roll back into it near the apex. Keep rolling into it up to 8k or so, and weight the inside pegs while you move your shoulder forward toward the mirror around the sweeping 85 mph curves (marked 45), then a little dab of front brake and three downshifts for the two 90 degree turns marked 25, and soak in the growl of that torque monster between your knees (No, not THAT one...). Repeat this scenario for mile after mile, in relative comfort, until lunch. Then do it all again for another three or four hours. Oh, and since you have those wonderful factory saddlebags, don't forget to pick up a couple of six packs of Spotted Cow before you go home. And when you get home, open a Spotted Cow, turn the radio on, put the bike up on the conveniently-provided center stand, as God intended, and don't forget to NOT lube and adjust your chain.
For me (and maybe not you, but that's no concern of mine), the FJR has soul. It's a keeper.

 

[Bugnatr]

Ride along with me for a couple miles, if you will. County I and II, across the river five miles from Wabasha, MN

I took a peak at those in G Maps.

IN!

 

[CollingsBob]

Buy 2 bikes. One with soul…and an FJR for comfort, range and reliability.
I have a ‘53 Vincent because it’s cool..and a’17ES because it’s damn reliable and stupid fast.

 

[SR-71]

Subjective of course, but IMO 'looks wise' the FJR puts the BMW to shame.

I've owned a '05 FJR, and still own a '07 FJR with low miles. I considered upgrading to a 2022 FJR but with the exception of a few new bells and whistles, I'd be buying the same bike again. My next bike might be a new Wing.

 

[saread]

I thought the no soul comment would generate a little discussion. In my experience a bike with soul, or character, was sometimes fun to ride, sometimes a pain in the ass, and sometimes flat out scary. I grew up riding dirt bikes in an era where powerbands were 500 RPM wide and riding the pipe was a skill. I rode a 400 CZ that had all of the character you would ever want in a motorcycle. I was done with that sort of soul a long time ago. If I need to remember what motorcycling was, I've got a 1980 SR500 in the garage that has all of the soul and character I need. Thump. A modern motorcycle does not have to have bad manners, or keep talking to me to be right. It just needs to be reliable and not throw out surprises. That is what the FJR is. Rock solidly reliable with no nasty habits. It goes when I say go, it whoa's when I say whoa, it turns when I point it. No drama, no issues, no arguments. Damn good bike.

There are a few other things that are due for consideration here as well. One of them is that Yamaha is pushing out what is basically the 2016 bike with a 2022 price tag. The lack of updates/distinguishing characteristics does not give one a great deal of confidence that Yamaha is currently putting resources into the platform, or will continue to support it in the future. The unwillingness to make it Euro 5 compliant and dropping it from that market doesn't look great either. This uncertainty weighs heavily. It's hard enough now to find a tech that speaks Feej, without the mothership dropping support. What does the future hold? If Yamaha would throw out some crumb of encouragement, it would probably go a long way towards settling the market. It would for me. How about reinstating the A model? Is electronically adjustable suspension really that vital? Sort of like chains, I don't need a bunch of things to fiddle around with. I know how I ride, I know what I want, and it ain't complicated. See above. Set it and forget it. I don't even want to think about having to work on that horror story if Yamaha bails out, much less when they are in it.

Still, for all of this, the FJR is a fantastic fucking motorcycle. Because it's a FFM, and I know it, the Feej remains top of the heap. But, I have to think this out. The Bavarian sirens are calling.........

 

[Prosolar]

For me the FJR has plenty of soul, and character! It's the engine, the power, like all medium performance 4 cylinders it feels good down low, and makes more power as the revs climb and goes to at least 9k rpm. I've ridden a few Harleys and they seem to have the character of a tractor. Starts off OKish power, then doesn't pick up at all and just when you think something might happen it falls on it's face. I love to rev up the engine, always wanted to try a 600 supersport feel what 16k rpms feels like but wouldn't want to live with one, the few I've ridden didn't get the chance to get on it out on the road...

 

[Super13]

I thought the no soul comment would generate a little discussion. In my experience a bike with soul, or character, was sometimes fun to ride, sometimes a pain in the ass, and sometimes flat out scary. I grew up riding dirt bikes in an era where powerbands were 500 RPM wide and riding the pipe was a skill. I rode a 400 CZ that had all of the character you would ever want in a motorcycle. I was done with that sort of soul a long time ago. If I need to remember what motorcycling was, I've got a 1980 SR500 in the garage that has all of the soul and character I need. Thump. A modern motorcycle does not have to have bad manners, or keep talking to me to be right. It just needs to be reliable and not throw out surprises. That is what the FJR is. Rock solidly reliable with no nasty habits. It goes when I say go, it whoa's when I say whoa, it turns when I point it. No drama, no issues, no arguments. Damn good bike.

There are a few other things that are due for consideration here as well. One of them is that Yamaha is pushing out what is basically the 2016 bike with a 2022 price tag. The lack of updates/distinguishing characteristics does not give one a great deal of confidence that Yamaha is currently putting resources into the platform, or will continue to support it in the future. The unwillingness to make it Euro 5 compliant and dropping it from that market doesn't look great either. This uncertainty weighs heavily. It's hard enough now to find a tech that speaks Feej, without the mothership dropping support. What does the future hold? If Yamaha would throw out some crumb of encouragement, it would probably go a long way towards settling the market. It would for me. How about reinstating the A model? Is electronically adjustable suspension really that vital? Sort of like chains, I don't need a bunch of things to fiddle around with. I know how I ride, I know what I want, and it ain't complicated. See above. Set it and forget it. I don't even want to think about having to work on that horror story if Yamaha bails out, much less when they are in it.

Still, for all of this, the FJR is a fantastic fucking motorcycle. Because it's a FFM, and I know it, the Feej remains top of the heap. But, I have to think this out. The Bavarian sirens are calling.........

That's a fantastic problem to have!

 

[sthomag]

Chain drive and green will get you this for $16,660Canadian ($13,130USD): https://www.kawasaki.ca/en-ca/motorcycle/ninja/sport/ninja-1000sx/2022-ninja-1000sx/ax-configurator
The $5,000USD difference in price versus the 2022 FJR1300 would buy you a real nice custom blue paint job. You just have to get past the chain drive.

I have a 2016 Ninja 1000. It’s a fun bike; a lot lighter and more maneuverable than my FJR. However, it’s not as comfortable. The original seat was terrible, and the riding position is sportier, which means more uncomfortable.

Also, the rear brake is terrible and needs major modifications to make it acceptable. The wind protection is not as good by a long shot, and it absolutely needs an Ivan flash to make throttle response acceptable. Which it does, spectacularly.

Oh, also hard bags are about 1,000 bucks extra, the radiator is vulnerable to stone damage, and the headlights suck. And we mustn't forget the lack of a center stand. I've been looking at the bike, trying to figure out how to attach one (I can weld). Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a practical way of doing that without completely disassembling the bike.

Other than those points, it’s a great bike. But quite different in character from the FJR.

 

[clyde4s]

My last two cycles were BMW. If I ever have a BMW again in this lifetime it will be too soon.
Both of them ended up with needed repairs that cost more than the cycles were worth. The 2005 K1200LT had the seal go out between the engine and tranny and it was going to cost $3-4000 to fix it. Instead I traded it in on the "more dependable" 2011 R1200RT. Nice. Quick. Able to pass anything. Except a dealership. Any time you get within a block of a dealership there's a $1000 gone for maintenance.
The clutch went out, and it was $2500 to fix. Then the suspension and a couple other things went, and it was going to be another $4500 to fix, and I decided to sell it for the amount left on the loan, and let someone else deal with the money pit.
After selling that a year and a half ago, I have been researching for the perfect cycle. There were certain standards and requirements: cruise control, locking hard cases, windshield adjustable with the touch of a button, heated hand grips, shaft drive (no chains for me) - you know, just the basic stuff that people expect from a cycle!

That narrowed it down a lot. Then I looked for dependable, which narrowed it down some more, and after reading and watching hundreds of review and comparisons, it came down to FJR1300.

At that point - which trim level, which year? I decided it was worth the extra $$ for the ES model rather than the A version, so it has adjustable Electronic Suspension. The FJR have been great for a couple decades now, but the changes in 2016, including 6 speed transmission made that the year cut-off. Finally, the beautiful Cobalt Blue of the 2016 works better for me than the civilized 3-piece suit gray of some of the other years.

When I found The Bike in Dec 2021 that meets all the requirements - AND - had 1801 miles on it - it was the time to pick it up near Ashville, NC and drive 300 miles back to Nashville, TN in some chilly weather. Totally worth it.

The story of my choosing the cycle tells a lot about why it is the Perfect Motorcycle!

 

[Hudson]

I have a few nice bikes, and get to ride a few nice bikes every year. I don’t ride my FJR or many of the bikes as much as i used to. I did 1500 miles over the last Reuben Run, and fell back in love with the FJR. It’s such a solid bike and even an 08 well farkled is still as good as most new bikes.

 

[[email protected]]

My last two cycles were BMW. If I ever have a BMW again in this lifetime it will be too soon.
Both of them ended up with needed repairs that cost more than the cycles were worth. The 2005 K1200LT had the seal go out between the engine and tranny and it was going to cost $3-4000 to fix it. Instead I traded it in on the "more dependable" 2011 R1200RT. Nice. Quick. Able to pass anything. Except a dealership. Any time you get within a block of a dealership there's a $1000 gone for maintenance.
The clutch went out, and it was $2500 to fix. Then the suspension and a couple other things went, and it was going to be another $4500 to fix, and I decided to sell it for the amount left on the loan, and let someone else deal with the money pit.
After selling that a year and a half ago, I have been researching for the perfect cycle. There were certain standards and requirements: cruise control, locking hard cases, windshield adjustable with the touch of a button, heated hand grips, shaft drive (no chains for me) - you know, just the basic stuff that people expect from a cycle!

That narrowed it down a lot. Then I looked for dependable, which narrowed it down some more, and after reading and watching hundreds of review and comparisons, it came down to FJR1300.

At that point - which trim level, which year? I decided it was worth the extra $$ for the ES model rather than the A version, so it has adjustable Electronic Suspension. The FJR have been great for a couple decades now, but the changes in 2016, including 6 speed transmission made that the year cut-off. Finally, the beautiful Cobalt Blue of the 2016 works better for me than the civilized 3-piece suit gray of some of the other years.

When I found The Bike in Dec 2021 that meets all the requirements - AND - had 1801 miles on it - it was the time to pick it up near Ashville, NC and drive 300 miles back to Nashville, TN in some chilly weather. Totally worth it.

The story of my choosing the cycle tells a lot about why it is the Perfect Motorcycle!

I have the same bike & YES they are beautiful !!!!!

 

[saread]

Geez, this is really turning out to be a lot harder deal than I wanted it to be. The decision itself us tough enough, but throw in douchebag salespeople and it gets maddening. I'm in Oregon visiting family and for some fun and giggles I decide to visit the local Bavarian outlet to sit on an RS. Ergonomics may, or may not, make the decision for me. So, we saunter into said teutonic palace and are immediately accosted by sales. That's a plus as most of the asian oriented shops don't look sideways at you on the floor. Very friendly fellow, which is also nice compared to some of the lesser accomplished sales force I've encountered, and we have a really pleasant conversation on what the floor is carrying. There're several RT's and lots of other variations across the shop. Actually a decent selection. But I don't see an RS and I inquire about being able to sit on one if he's got one. Nope, no RS in stock. Apparently, he says, BMW isn't going to produce RS's in 2022, and they didn't make any in 2021 either. Now, I have to ask myself, "How fucking dumb do I actually look?". Maybe a few of you who know me can help me out with this. Because I truly don't know at this point. This is where I have to express my disappointment in German manufacturing and marketing and extract myself.

Now, this conversation took place standing over a pair of RT's. Perhaps I should have expected a little shade given the state of the floor stock. But damn, that's as good a whopper as I've heard in a dealership. Or maybe it's just that I look so incredibly feckless, that he just couldn't hold it in. I don't know. What I do know is that if you're going to extract cash from my wallet, I will need to be appreciated a little bit. Don't just expect to hose me and slip away in the dark, I'm going to need a kiss or two before we do the nasty. And maybe a little love after depending on how you did me. Lot's of fun to be had picking a new bike.

 

[BlakeCG]

Geez, this is really turning out to be a lot harder deal than I wanted it to be. The decision itself us tough enough, but throw in douchebag salespeople and it gets maddening. I'm in Oregon visiting family and for some fun and giggles I decide to visit the local Bavarian outlet to sit on an RS. Ergonomics may, or may not, make the decision for me. So, we saunter into said teutonic palace and are immediately accosted by sales. That's a plus as most of the asian oriented shops don't look sideways at you on the floor. Very friendly fellow, which is also nice compared to some of the lesser accomplished sales force I've encountered, and we have a really pleasant conversation on what the floor is carrying. There're several RT's and lots of other variations across the shop. Actually a decent selection. But I don't see an RS and I inquire about being able to sit on one if he's got one. Nope, no RS in stock. Apparently, he says, BMW isn't going to produce RS's in 2022, and they didn't make any in 2021 either. Now, I have to ask myself, "How fucking dumb do I actually look?". Maybe a few of you who know me can help me out with this. Because I truly don't know at this point. This is where I have to express my disappointment in German manufacturing and marketing and extract myself.

Now, this conversation took place standing over a pair of RT's. Perhaps I should have expected a little shade given the state of the floor stock. But damn, that's as good a whopper as I've heard in a dealership. Or maybe it's just that I look so incredibly feckless, that he just couldn't hold it in. I don't know. What I do know is that if you're going to extract cash from my wallet, I will need to be appreciated a little bit. Don't just expect to hose me and slip away in the dark, I'm going to need a kiss or two before we do the nasty. And maybe a little love after depending on how you did me. Lot's of fun to be had picking a new bike.

that's the main reason I buy from the owner. The second reason is we both get a much better deal. The only downside is that I've never owned a new motorcycle and only one new vehicle, and I'm OK with that.

 

[RBEmerson]

[BMW model near rant omitted]

BMW can really be weird about production. I doubt very much the sales person was telling a fairy tale. Sometimes it's "we had (however many) and sold out". The dealer may have guessed wrong on orders, be limited in how much they can spend on floorplanning spendy items, or BMW said "you get (however many) and no more". In short, I doubt you heard a fairy tale.

I've talked about BMW supplies with an acquaintance at Hermy's BMW (Port Clinton, PA). I already had a bike ('03 K1200RS from Hermy's), and Bob knew I wasn't about to change any time soon. In short, no cause to nudge me into whatever with "buy it now, before they're all gone".

That said, particularly after riding, the '16 RT in my avatar (on an Alps tour), I just couldn't get up for buying one, and paying for parts mostly made out of unobtainium. Which is why I have my '17 FJR (bought in '18, after serious searching, because no way in hell would/will I have a matte paint job).

 

[RBEmerson]

that's the main reason I buy from the owner. The second reason is we both get a much better deal. The only downside is that I've never owned a new motorcycle and only one new vehicle, and I'm OK with that.

We go with new cars. My FJR was new. The '03 K1200RS was used, bought from Hermy's (see above). Teething problems, etc. went to a dealer. Easy-peasy. The Concors C10 before the K, and the Honda C900 before that were used. The C10 had no surprises I can recall. The C900 was a semi-restoration, but I knew that when I bought it.

All of that said, IMHO, if you were sold something complete with built-in surprises, not a lot of options for dealing with them. Yes, it might have been a bargain, but where's the bargain when you find out the tranny was filled with bananas or 100 weight lube to hide a very expensive chatter, etc. For me, thank you, no.

Yes, there's an inherent "tax" for driving your shiny new Belchfire 5000 off the floor, and hearing the valuation drop off the back bumper. Either you accept it for knowing there's support if the motor falls out on the way home, or roll the dice on a private sale. Your choice.

 

[saread]

An old acquaintance of mine owned a lot of very fast, very expensive race cars. He was fond of saying that owning race cars is all about ego. Knowing that there is no return on your money, you still get your ego massaged by having things that go fast and win occasionally. That's kind of like buying new. Everyone with more than an amoeba's brain knows that used is a better deal. But, I like new cars, I like new bikes. My money, my ego. It makes me feel good to rock new machinery. You can rationalize why buying new is smart over buying used all you want the bottom line is riding a new bike with your mates is pretty effing cool.