Rode the new Buell 1125

[Big Sky]

Was coming through Missoula Sunday and needed some chain lube so stopped at the Harley shop which is the only dealer open on a Sunday. I'd seen an ad on Friday that they were demo-ing HDs, Buells and Ducatis on Friday and Saturday. They tell me I could still take out the Buell 1125 - the one with the new water cooled "Rincon" engine built by Rotax.

Hell yes! Wife rolled her eyes and waited patiently.

Of course, did the ride with a salesman in front, so couldn't (and wouldn't have anyway) really wring it out. Okay, some impressions:

The ergos are very sporty - low bars, high foot pegs and controls, but I've seen worse. Seat would kill within 30 minutes.

The steering is surprisingly heavy but feels stable. The bike feels significantly heavier than my GSXR 750.

Still some driveline lash even with belt drive, but a pretty slick shifting tranny. At idle the thing rattles like it has a dry clutch, but I don't think that's the case.

The engine is... just goddamned awesome. I've never ridden anything that pulls quite like it, in any gear at just about any rpm. And it has a wonderful bellow. Not sure what kind of music it would make at redline. The shop guys said 165 hp at the wheel. I snickered and scoffed. But It sure felt like at least 145, maybe more. That thing has so much grunt and accelerates like a top-fueler. Very, very impressive, but...

I read an early review and the writer complained about fuel injection mapping issues. Well, they're not sorted yet. Maybe it needed (with 135 miles on the odometer?) a throttle-body sync, but surging was noticeable and annoying.

But here's the real kicker, a very serious problem: cruising along in third gear, about 4,000 RPMs, steady throttle setting...then whack it and... the power is gone! The bike just almost dies! I am able to replicate this condition about every four or fifth attempt. It felt like a rev limiter was kicking in or something. It would continue to run but produced no power; like it dropped a cylinder and a half. Just very weird and disconcerting.

However, I think Buel has got the engine architecture here to power a state-of-the-art American-made full-on sportbike that will run with Ducatis...hell, even Hyabusas. The power is like nothing I've felt before, and I rode a Blackbird for four years. Since I never really got a chance to sample it's handling prowess, that jury is still out.

They have got to get the EFI gremlins sorted soon, or they may screw up the potential for a huge success.

 

[Froggy]

Hello, glad you enjoyed the ride, I am a Buell enthusiast, so let me clear up some stuff for you

They tell me I could still take out the Buell 1125 - the one with the new water cooled "Rincon" engine built by Rotax.

Helicon

The ergos are very sporty - low bars, high foot pegs and controls, but I've seen worse. Seat would kill within 30 minutes.

Buell built the bike from the rider down, to make comfort a priority. Individual egros will vary, but its a good fit for most people. I do agree, the stock seat sucks, but there is a nice selection of replacement seats from Buell and aftermarket.

Still some driveline lash even with belt drive, but a pretty slick shifting tranny.

The belt isn't perfect, but it does eliminate most drivetrain lash. The nice thing about belts is they last longer than chains, and don't require any adjustment, lubrication, or other maintenance. The bike uses a wet clutch.

The engine is... just goddamned awesome. I've never ridden anything that pulls quite like it, in any gear at just about any rpm. And it has a wonderful bellow. Not sure what kind of music it would make at redline. The shop guys said 165 hp at the wheel. I snickered and scoffed. But It sure felt like at least 145, maybe more. That thing has so much grunt and accelerates like a top-fueler. Very, very impressive, but...

146hp crank, 125ish on the dyno.

I read an early review and the writer complained about fuel injection mapping issues. Well, they're not sorted yet. Maybe it needed (with 135 miles on the odometer?) a throttle-body sync, but surging was noticeable and annoying.

The 08's had some issues with the mapping, this was mostly with trying to get the bike to pass emissions standards. Buell has released updated maps that can be re flashed onto the bike by the dealer. They are coming out with maps every few months, and each time the bikes get better and better. The 09's had slight tweaks regarding things like the O2 sensors to improve drivability even more.

But here's the real kicker, a very serious problem: cruising along in third gear, about 4,000 RPMs, steady throttle setting...then whack it and... the power is gone!

You can thank the government for that, it is to help the bike pass EPA testing. There is a solenoid attached to the throttle bodies. In the conditions you described, it starves the engine of all power. It can be defeated with a $7 resistor right from Buell.

Again I am glad you really liked it, it shows that even a company of only about 200 employees can still compete with other companies that have more than that many people in a single department. By any chance did you get the free gear lock giveaway when you test rode the bike? Its a nice freebie and will let you secure stuff to your bike

 

[Fred W]

So I take it you have a direct interest in Buell, Froggy?

 

[Froggy]

So I take it you have a direct interest in Buell, Froggy?

Yep, I am on my second one, and should be getting another one soon. I love mine, they are the best bikes I have ever owned. Another great thing about the Buell's is the community and the involvment from the motorcompany. I have met Erik Buell, and he has signed my Ulysses before it got totalled.

The Buell homecoming is this weekend in East Troy, WI, if you happen to be in the area and would like to meet him.

The Buells aren't for everyone, they aren't perfect, but no bike is. Different strokes for different folks. After my wreck, I was looking at an 08 FJR with the paddle shifts, it looked cool, but unfortuantly the insurance company screwed me over and I couldn't afford it. Ended up getting a killer deal on a used Buell I currently own.

 

[Spook]

So I take it you have a direct interest in Buell, Froggy?

Probably a PR guy who spends his time googling on key words to put in his pitch.

 

[Froggy]

So I take it you have a direct interest in Buell, Froggy?

Probably a PR guy who spends his time googling on key words to put in his pitch.

I am not associated with Buell in any way, shape or form, but I did find this thread from Google while trying to lookup some part numbers.

 

[Fred W]

So I take it you have a direct interest in Buell, Froggy?

Probably a PR guy who spends his time googling on key words to put in his pitch.

I am not associated with Buell in any way, shape or form, but I did find this thread from Google while trying to lookup some part numbers.

That was my question, Froggy. "Direct interest" meaning some kind of an association.

Glad you like them.

I'm not convinced.

 

[Big Sky]

Thanks for the corrections and additions, Froggy ("Helicon" etc.) I was working from my 53-year-old and apparently impaired memory. I really had no serious complaints with the bike other than almost total loss of power during the described conditions. How a bike can be released to the public with this flaw is beyond me, though. There is no good excuse. I'd even contend the condition is potentially dangerous. As you roll off after finding the dead spot, the power spurts back in. Not cool at all. This is not the government's fault.

Overall, I am delighted Buell may be on track to build a competitive sport bike; even the price is competitive. Further, this engine platform has the potential to power a whole range of derivative products including sport touring machines. I'm sure additional refinement will yield the power plant they need and want. It's a shame it was released a little before it was actually ready for prime time.

I've always wondered why HD didn't allow Eric & Co. to use and really develop the V-Rod engine.

 

[Froggy]

It is not a total loss of power, the solenoid restricts the throttle to only 80%. It is done to get the bike to pass EPA regulations regarding the engine noise. It does suck that its there, but it can be bypassed in 5 minutes using a special resistor right from Buell.

As for the V-Rod engine, its a long story, but to make it short, Erik started the project to develop the Revolution engine for use in both Buell and Harley bikes, but due to different needs for the cruisers, they couldn't build the motor to Erik's specifications. Erik backed out from the project and Porche took over. Flash forward about 10 years, Buell gets the motor of his specifications from Rotax. Funny thing is, the prototype for the 1125R was built about 25 years ago including the side mounted radiators. There is a book you can read called "25 Years of Buell" (you can get it on Amazon), its written by two of Erik's close friends who are former Buell employees. Its a great read for all motorcyclists and it talks about Erik's dreams and how he started out in a barn struggling to get going to where he is today.

 

[SouthernCruizer]

It is not a total loss of power, the solenoid restricts the throttle to only 80%. It is done to get the bike to pass EPA regulations regarding the engine noise. It does suck that its there, but it can be bypassed in 5 minutes using a special resistor right from Buell.

As for the V-Rod engine, its a long story, but to make it short, Erik started the project to develop the Revolution engine for use in both Buell and Harley bikes, but due to different needs for the cruisers, they couldn't build the motor to Erik's specifications. Erik backed out from the project and Porche took over. Flash forward about 10 years, Buell gets the motor of his specifications from Rotax. Funny thing is, the prototype for the 1125R was built about 25 years ago including the side mounted radiators. There is a book you can read called "25 Years of Buell" (you can get it on Amazon), its written by two of Erik's close friends who are former Buell employees. Its a great read for all motorcyclists and it talks about Erik's dreams and how he started out in a barn struggling to get going to where he is today.

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I've never heard of restricting a throttle for EPA purposes on a motorcycle. Any other bikes have this , or is it a Buell thing?

 

[Froggy]

That is a good question, I am looking into it. Japanese market versions of the air cooled Buells have it too, while the rest of the world bikes did not. I have seen other crazy things to comply with EPA testing including the how the Corvette under some conditions will make you shift from 1st to 4th, but thats more to boost the fuel economy numbers.

 

[Big Sky]

"It is not a total loss of power, the solenoid restricts the throttle to only 80%. It is done to get the bike to pass EPA regulations regarding the engine noise. It does suck that its there, but it can be bypassed in 5 minutes using a special resistor right from Buell."

"... restrict to 80 percent..."? or do you mean 80 percent restriction? The latter is what I experienced. When you hit the "dead spot" the engine would continue to run but there was ZERO forward movement, no power at all.

Further, Buell is dealing with the same government regs as everyone else. I have heard of no other stock motorcycle so equipped or with such flawed fueling, if that is what it is. Evidently, all other manufacturers have found the engineering solutions to EPA specs...except Buell (though, granted, some maps could use improvement and are continuously being improved). I'd be more inclined to suspect perhaps a TPS problem where somehow the ECU is getting a signal to kick in the rev limiter. That's what it felt like.

 

[Geezer]

It is not a total loss of power, the solenoid restricts the throttle to only 80%. It is done to get the bike to pass EPA regulations regarding the engine noise. It does suck that its there, but it can be bypassed in 5 minutes using a special resistor right from Buell.(snip)

So, how loud is this engine? Are we talking about the level of sound from the exhaust or general noise from the engine besides the exhaust?

 

[Big Sky]

It is a pretty loud platform, but evidently does get past EPA. There is plenty of intake honk and bellowing from the exhaust, and there seems to be significant mechanical noise emanating from it, too. Essentially, a very deep, low frequency growl. Picture an African cape buffalo. Or tubas and baritone sax.