Ignition Switch or Something else?

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HotRodZilla

HotRodZilla

GOD BLESS AMERICA
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Ok...So, I know we have a pinned thead about ignition failures higher up in this forum sub-section, but the last post there is from September 2010, and is referencing Barking Spiders. That can't be good.

So here is the problem.

I have a buddy, who is not on either of the forums, that has a 2003 with about 40k on it. He took it for a ride around the city the other day running errands and says it was lots of stop and go and extremely hot. I bet it was easily over 100 on the pavement.

The next morning he went to start the bike, and it wouldn't go. He says if he cycles the key all the way to "on" nothing happens. If he slowly turns the key to kind of half-way in between "on" and "off" and holds it there, the guages will sweep, the fuel pump will come on and the lights will come on...But the bike will not fire. If he moves the key all the way to "on" fast or slow, nothing happens. Dead bike.

Before Travis had given me all these symptoms, I told him to look at his neutral safety switch, and make sure his battery is not toast, but given the fact that he's having to play games with key placement, I think he's on the right track, and his switch has died.

I DO NOT know how to test the switch to try to isolate it. I'm just not good at that stuff, but could probably figure it out with decent instructions. I also have no idea how to bypass the switch like so many did when the GenII switches were failing.

If it is the ignition switch, Travis will be happy with a bypass; even if it is only semi-permanant but reliable. He priced new switches at Yamaha and nearly fell down.

I PM'd Brodi since he seems to be the expert on this stuff, but if it's not the switch, we'll need ideas of what to look for before we tear into anything.

Anyone have an issue like this in the past? If you did, what did it turn out to be, and how did you fix it??

 
HRZ, call SkooterG-GregM; I believe he had this same exact problem on the Dirty Old Whore a number of years ago. If you need his number, just call me: 480-440-4666.

 
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FJRay also had that problem on his '03. IIRC, he was able to remove the switch asembly, disassemble and clean it up.

He's usually on the forum now and again so he will probably answer.

 
Yes, it sounds like the ignition switch. First off, it may just be a dirty switch. Have him cycle the switch on/off a hundred times or so and see if that clears it up. If not, I would try dis-assembly for cleaning/inspection, and then replacement or a bypass.

And tell him to get his ass on the forum!

And for crying out loud, never buy parts directly from Yamaha. You get them from a discount vendor. Though it will still be pricey. When Gen IIs had their ignition switch recall, Yamaha came out with a ignition switch 'recall kit' that is MUCH less than just buying an ignition switch. Problem is, I don't think the Gen II switch will work on a Gen I. I believe some of the wiring is different, though perhaps one COULD get it to work.

 
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For sure the switch. Mine did it on the way to Park City. Was able to limp it in but I used the kill switch at fuel stops and didn't touch the key switch.

Take the switch all the way out and take it apart. You have to drill out some screws but they are soft. Clean all the contacts real good and put it together and then get a relay harness from Brodie or make your own like I did. Been trouble free ever since.

The problem is caused by the switch contacts being way to small for the load the have to carry. Using a relay takes the load off the switch.

 
There are differences between Gen II and Gen I ignition switches. Brodie's harness will help prevent a problem but won't solve a bad ignition switch. Hot wiring the ignition presents some problems, if this is the only option open I have some details and suggestions that will cost <$15.

The Gen I ignition switch seems to be more prone to dirt than melting so there is some hope of fixing the switch but it'll be some work.

There are two connectors associated with the ignition switch, IIRC, one of the connectors is red and the other connector is a substantial square shape. You will have to lift the gas tank to to access the connectors. Basically, when the ignition switch is on all 4 wires should be at battery voltage and not 0.5 volts or less than battery voltage. Wire colors are solid red, brown/blue, white/blue, blue/yellow. If any one wire is low or zero the problem is the switch.

The ignition switch is in two halves. The top half is the mechanical part with the key tumblers. The sealed off bottom half contains the electrical contacts. Remove the top of the triple tree. Unplug the two connectors. Drill out the security screws (qty 2) and remove the switch. Drill out the two security screws that hold the switch together. Take the security screws to a hardware store and purchase standard hardware screws to replace them or buy new security screws from Yamaha. A drill press and a center punch are highly recommended tools for drillilng.

There will be a heavy plastic 'circuit board' with the 4 wires soldered to it. The top side of the board will have copper studs that the spring loaded contacts will short together when the ignition switch is ON. The top part of the switch is a white plastic block that retains the spring loaded contacts. Sometimes the copper contacts get so hot the solder will reflow and let the wire pop off.

The electrical switch half should be clean inside, use electrical contact cleaner or automotive electrical cleaner if necessary. The copper studs should not be recessed and should be shiny. The spring loaded contacts should not be heat discolored, but this is not a failure if they are discolored. Examine the plastic retainer and the contacts to ensure that the contacts move smoothly and exactly vertical with no rocking. If the plastic carrier is melted or distorted you *may* be able to rotate it 180º and reuse it since the switch uses only two of the 4 contacts that are available.

If the problem is the switch and the electrical half is determined to be beyond repair, keep the top tumbler part so no matter what the final solution it will retain the OEM key.

Have a lookie-see and let us know what you find.

Edit: I see that FJRay and I have similar posts.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
FJRay said:
The problem is caused by the switch contacts being way to small for the load the have to carry. Using a relay takes the load off the switch.
Click to expand...
While this was definitely the case with Gen II FJRS, I don't think it was the same problem with Gen Is, hence why they don't fail as often and are were not part of the recall.

 
I have to disagree with Alan's point that if any wire is less than battery then the switch is bad.

Red is battery. Brown/blue is battery with key on. That's the wire that feeds the fuse box and all switched circuits, and is probably the one not connecting right.

The other two wires are a separate circuit entirely.

The second pole of the switch is not a hot circuit, it carries a ground signal from the starter cutoff relay to the ECU. The starter cutoff relay grounds the Blue/Yellow wire with either the sidestand or neutral switch, and that ground signal is carried to the ECU by the white/blue wire after passing through the second pole of the ignition switch.

Whether the ECU applies 12 volts to these wires if they're not grounded I couldn't tell you, but if either the sidestand is down or the bike's in neutral the Blue/Yellow will be grounded, and when you turn the key on, so will the White/Blue.

I've had issues with mine, but not bad connections, simply hard to turn the key, especially after riding in nasty weather. Some contact cleaner down the keyhole usually straightens it out for me.

 
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Rest assured I had the diagram out and checked before I posted . . . . 2003 diagram at that! :lol:

I can't tell you how many times I've posted in a thread words like, "Hey, Ionbeam said this, so take it to the bank!"

 
beemerdons said:
wfooshee said:
I have to disagree with Alan's point...
Click to expand...
Oh Boy, a fight between ionbeam and Walt; two of our "wicked smarts". Damn, I sure hope Fred W jumps in. Please give me 5 minutes to run to Circle K for more beer.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't have said you were going for beer. Scooter will be waiting in your favorite chair when you get back. :rolleyes:

 
Cool...Thanks guys. This is what I was looking for. I forgot the switch separated into two pieces. Travis already has the triple clamp off but stopped when he saw the security screws.

We'll tackle this next weekend and hope its just a dirty switch. I had forgotten about that too.

FWIW Skooter, I have invited him to join twice. He left a law enforcement job in Utah to become a professional MMA fighter. He spends his time with gis family or training, so I donno how much time he has to jump in here too. I'll keep working on him.

 
Did this thread move understanding forward? Is the OP more educated with our response ? Does it matter that one contributor is "Always right"?, Even when they sometimes aren't? Is the OP in a better state than the original question?

So, the sum of the differences is move forward.... And we wus all better 4 it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
ionbeam said:
There are differences between Gen II and Gen I ignition switches. Brodie's harness will help prevent a problem but won't solve a bad ignition switch. Hot wiring the ignition presents some problems, if this is the only option open I have some details and suggestions that will cost <$15.

The Gen I ignition switch seems to be more prone to dirt than melting so there is some hope of fixing the switch but it'll be some work.

There are two connectors associated with the ignition switch, IIRC, one of the connectors is red and the other connector is a substantial square shape. You will have to lift the gas tank to to access the connectors. Basically, when the ignition switch is on all 4 wires should be at battery voltage and not 0.5 volts or less than battery voltage. Wire colors are solid red, brown/blue, white/blue, blue/yellow. If any one wire is low or zero the problem is the switch.

The ignition switch is in two halves. The top half is the mechanical part with the key tumblers. The sealed off bottom half contains the electrical contacts. Remove the top of the triple tree. Unplug the two connectors. Drill out the security screws (qty 2) and remove the switch. Drill out the two security screws that hold the switch together. Take the security screws to a hardware store and purchase standard hardware screws to replace them or buy new security screws from Yamaha. A drill press and a center punch are highly recommended tools for drillilng.

There will be a heavy plastic 'circuit board' with the 4 wires soldered to it. The top side of the board will have copper studs that the spring loaded contacts will short together when the ignition switch is ON. The top part of the switch is a white plastic block that retains the spring loaded contacts. Sometimes the copper contacts get so hot the solder will reflow and let the wire pop off.

The electrical switch half should be clean inside, use electrical contact cleaner or automotive electrical cleaner if necessary. The copper studs should not be recessed and should be shiny. The spring loaded contacts should not be heat discolored, but this is not a failure if they are discolored. Examine the plastic retainer and the contacts to ensure that the contacts move smoothly and exactly vertical with no rocking. If the plastic carrier is melted or distorted you *may* be able to rotate it 180º and reuse it since the switch uses only two of the 4 contacts that are available.

If the problem is the switch and the electrical half is determined to be beyond repair, keep the top tumbler part so no matter what the final solution it will retain the OEM key.

Have a lookie-see and let us know what you find.

Edit: I see that FJRay and I have similar posts.
Click to expand...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ3R4CfasMw

 

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