Triumph Explorer.......

Triumph Explorer



Yamaha Tenare



Which one has the ugly exhaust?

Not that it matters... As soon as you put some bags on it they are completely hidden anyway.

beemerdons said:

FJRay said:

I think the Rider test had them at the same weight.

Click to expand...

I saw that on Page 38 Ray of the January 2012 issue, but that has to be a typographic error; it looks to me like they just copied it mistakenly (how can it be exactly the same!), also they tested the 2011 R1200GS Adventure with the 8.7 gallon tank.

As you know I worked for many years for Metro Mechanical, Inc. in Phoenix, I headed up the Pipefitting Division and my Buddy Dave Cooley headed up the Plumbing Division. When Dave got his new 2005 BMW R1200GS we put it on our certified scales at MMI and it weighed 515 lbs. and my 1996 BMW R1100GS weighed 540 lbs.

We were trying to figure out the weight difference between the two motos, since BMW was claiming that the new R12GS was 50 lbs. lighter than the older R11GS models. BMW Bavarian Bullshit: Only a 25 lb. difference between the two GS Beemer Boxers.

Click to expand...

So, just looking at the three bikes' wet weight specs on their own web sites:

BMW R1200GSA 564 lbs

Yamaha Super Tenare - 575 lbs

Triumph Explorer 1200 - 570 lbs.

They are all within 11 lbs of each other.

Fred W said:

beemerdons said:

FJRay said:

I think the Rider test had them at the same weight.

Click to expand...

I saw that on Page 38 Ray of the January 2012 issue, but that has to be a typographic error; it looks to me like they just copied it mistakenly (how can it be exactly the same!), also they tested the 2011 R1200GS Adventure with the 8.7 gallon tank.

As you know I worked for many years for Metro Mechanical, Inc. in Phoenix, I headed up the Pipefitting Division and my Buddy Dave Cooley headed up the Plumbing Division. When Dave got his new 2005 BMW R1200GS we put it on our certified scales at MMI and it weighed 515 lbs. and my 1996 BMW R1100GS weighed 540 lbs.

We were trying to figure out the weight difference between the two motos, since BMW was claiming that the new R12GS was 50 lbs. lighter than the older R11GS models. BMW Bavarian Bullshit: Only a 25 lb. difference between the two GS Beemer Boxers.

Click to expand...

So, just looking at the three bikes' wet weight specs on their own web sites:

BMW R1200GSA 564 lbs

Yamaha Super Tenare - 575 lbs

Triumph Explorer 1200 - 570 lbs.

They are all within 11 lbs of each other.

Click to expand...

That's only a healthy shit for some around here.

Fred W said:

So, just looking at the three bikes' wet weight specs on their own web sites:

BMW R1200GSA 564 lbs

Yamaha Super Tenare - 575 lbs

Triumph Explorer 1200 - 570 lbs.

They are all within 11 lbs of each other.

Click to expand...

You are comparing Apples to Oranges imho. You should be using the plain old GS. Not the GSA.

Fred W said:

beemerdons said:

FJRay said:

I think the Rider test had them at the same weight.

Click to expand...

I saw that on Page 38 Ray of the January 2012 issue, but that has to be a typographic error; it looks to me like they just copied it mistakenly (how can it be exactly the same!), also they tested the 2011 R1200GS Adventure with the 8.7 gallon tank.

As you know I worked for many years for Metro Mechanical, Inc. in Phoenix, I headed up the Pipefitting Division and my Buddy Dave Cooley headed up the Plumbing Division. When Dave got his new 2005 BMW R1200GS we put it on our certified scales at MMI and it weighed 515 lbs. and my 1996 BMW R1100GS weighed 540 lbs.

We were trying to figure out the weight difference between the two motos, since BMW was claiming that the new R12GS was 50 lbs. lighter than the older R11GS models. BMW Bavarian Bullshit: Only a 25 lb. difference between the two GS Beemer Boxers.

Click to expand...

So, just looking at the three bikes' wet weight specs on their own web sites:

BMW R1200GSA 564 lbs

Yamaha Super Tenare - 575 lbs

Triumph Explorer 1200 - 570 lbs.

They are all within 11 lbs of each other.

Click to expand...

Wet weight: ......................532.0 lbs. Freddie Bear, that 532 lbs. is taken directly from page 15 of the July 2010 Issue of Motorcycle Consumer News for a 2010 BMW R1200GS; I am staring right at it, MCN uses certified scales for all of their wet weight measurements.

The BMW R1200GS Adventure is a different animal than the Super Tenere, with the GSA's much larger fuel tank and upgraded suspension components. They really should have compared a Super Tenere to a standard BMW R1200GS.

Dave's GS was a non-ABS, which would account for 17 lbs. difference from 532 to 515 lbs., 17 lbs. for ABS Hardware would be about right; and on top of that since Metro Mechanical had to certify helicopter lifts with Arizona Department of Weights and Measures for picks on to high rises with our mechanical equipment, Dave still has the 515 lb. printout!

SkooterG said:

Fred W said:

So, just looking at the three bikes' wet weight specs on their own web sites:

BMW R1200GSA 564 lbs

Yamaha Super Tenare - 575 lbs

Triumph Explorer 1200 - 570 lbs.

They are all within 11 lbs of each other.

Click to expand...

You are comparing Apples to Oranges imho. You should be using the plain old GS. Not the GSA.

Click to expand...

+1, Gunny; thanks for slapping Fred, SkooterG. Why they're comparing an ADV to a GS is beyond me, their brains must be frozen!

FJRay said:

Fred W said:

beemerdons said:

FJRay said:

I think the Rider test had them at the same weight.

Click to expand...

I saw that on Page 38 Ray of the January 2012 issue, but that has to be a typographic error; it looks to me like they just copied it mistakenly (how can it be exactly the same!), also they tested the 2011 R1200GS Adventure with the 8.7 gallon tank.

As you know I worked for many years for Metro Mechanical, Inc. in Phoenix, I headed up the Pipefitting Division and my Buddy Dave Cooley headed up the Plumbing Division. When Dave got his new 2005 BMW R1200GS we put it on our certified scales at MMI and it weighed 515 lbs. and my 1996 BMW R1100GS weighed 540 lbs.

We were trying to figure out the weight difference between the two motos, since BMW was claiming that the new R12GS was 50 lbs. lighter than the older R11GS models. BMW Bavarian Bullshit: Only a 25 lb. difference between the two GS Beemer Boxers.

Click to expand...

So, just looking at the three bikes' wet weight specs on their own web sites:

BMW R1200GSA 564 lbs

Yamaha Super Tenare - 575 lbs

Triumph Explorer 1200 - 570 lbs.

They are all within 11 lbs of each other.

Click to expand...

That's only a healthy shit for some around here.

Click to expand...

With menudo or without menudo? It makes a big difference!

Triumph data sheet here you'll need to scroll to the bottom for wet weight etc.

Don

Fred W said:

Triumph Explorer

Yamaha Tenare

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I'm tall @ 6'2" on a good day, so either of these bikes would do it for me. I'm having some neck and wrist issues riding my '05 FJR lately, so I've been riding my experimental Suzuki DL 1000. Me likes how the experiment is going so far, and I have purty much split my riding mileage this year between the 2. I'd love to find a way to keep the FJR but unless I lose 80 lbs. and take more anti-inflammatories than I think I should(?), then a more up right, Adventure bike to upgrade both the FJR and the Zook (with their aluminum frames), will be my next ride.

In a choice between these 2 above, I do like the steel spoke wheels on the Super Tenere, but I'm not sure that a steel frame is necessary for "forgiveness" on a large trailey? The steel frame, aluminum spoke wheels on the Explorer seem to be more like the BMW GS packages. There must be a reason why these bikes are built (including the GS) with a steel frame, even though they are heavier than aluminum No?

I did find this reading interesting in regard to the Tenere.

"The frame is steel rather than aluminium - a lost opportunity to reduce some of that weight, perhaps, but then steel is tougher in high-shock situations, so it makes the Super Ten a better bike to lay on its side."

If I dropped any of the three in the woods I would definitely be shit out of luck getting it upright.

Monty said:

If I dropped any of the three in the woods I would definitely be shit out of luck getting it upright.

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+1, Gunny; I hear you loud and clear Monty, those 575# weights are a real handful for this Certified Old Fart!

SkooterG said:

Fred W said:

So, just looking at the three bikes' wet weight specs on their own web sites:

BMW R1200GSA 564 lbs

Yamaha Super Tenare - 575 lbs

Triumph Explorer 1200 - 570 lbs.

They are all within 11 lbs of each other.

Click to expand...

You are comparing Apples to Oranges imho. You should be using the plain old GS. Not the GSA.

Click to expand...

Why is it apples to oranges? It's the same market, isn't it? Sure the GS is a bit lighter, that was already documented by Big DonS. And I already explained that having liquid cooling is going to cost you some weight, all other things being equal.

I'm just pointing out that if 564 lbs is OK for the supposed epitome of big trailes (the GSA) then why is it such a BFD on these other two?

Personally, I prefer the idea of the mid-size trailies like the current crop of 800's, or even a new (old school) Man-strom DL1000, all of which are equipped with chain drive! Yep, I prefer chain drive because it's lighter, is easily re-geared, can be worked on sitting trailside, and are pretty much bulletproof anyway. And I also prefer the cylinder heads to not be sticking out the sides of the bike where they can get cranked against a boulder or act as a slider on the street. But that's just me...

Fred, the only reason I feel that the weight factor of the Yamaha Super Tenere and Triumph Explorer is such a big issue to me as a motorcycle enthusiast is that I was expecting so much more from Yamaha Engineering Dept. and Triumph Engineering Dept.

As you remember from the Super Tenere thread here on our FJR Forum, I was #2 on the D & H Super Tenere waiter's list with Jerold and Renaa down in Alabama. I still think the Super Tenere is an incredible machine and I have had the opportunity to ride along with AV Geek a hundred miles offroad here in Arizona, observing Brian riding his S10 over our Bradshaw Mountain Forest Roads. But knowing full well after 43 years of BMW Ownership how glacially slow BMW is to react in their own Engineering Department: I was fully expecting both Yamaha and Triumph to beat Yamaha at this dual sport game. I would be proud to own either a S10 or an Explorer.

I do recognize water cooling adds weight, however the Type 259 Boxer has oil cooling and those components are hefty also. I rode 110,000 miles to observe this on my R1100GS and 45,000 miles to observe this on my R1150RT, that hardware for the BMW oil cooling radiators and pumping components are not light by any means. The Type 247 "Airhead" Boxer did not have that heavy hardware and that is why a R100GS weighs in around the 465 lb. mark.

I'm not following your logic, Don. Bayrische Moter Worken has an extensive engineering department. I would say the weight of a finished bike is strictly in the control of the product design cycle. If anyone was able to design a lighter Big Trailie, it should be THEM!

Yes, the Japanese company's have certain advantages in production efficiency, quality control and manufacturing costs (eventually realized in the final product cost) not enjoyed by those crafty krauts. But when it comes to design, BMW can hold their own with anyone. It's the whole implementation thing that generally causes them problems. Well that and the cost thing. Well, actually it's also product support thing. And their marketing is offensive. But that's all, really (except for a few other issues).

So... if I was looking for a superbly designed motorcycle that might have some mechanical problems, will definitely cost too much, will be relatively unsupported (at least here in the US), and I felt like drinking the BMW superiority Kool-Aid, well, I know where I'd turn straight away.

PS - Isn't it too early to be engaging in this kind of PMS banter? I took a ride today (although it was a chilly one) and you don't have PMS in AZ.

https://weather.aol.com/forecast/todays//usa/arizona/chandler/id/usaz0034;jsessionid=942364E9581A5546FA57CDF435E98794 Fred W, are you kidding me My Brother? It only got to 57F here today with a forecasted 60F that it never reached! It got down to 28F last night and it is dropping down to 32F tonight.

I'm a long term Zonie Desert Rat, I cannot ride in those brutal conditions. Like my Fellow Sonoran Desert companions: Gila Monsters, Chuckawallas, Sidewinders, Scorpions, Tarantulas, Pup Fish, Armadillos and Diamondback Rattlesnakes - We just don't start moving until it's above 60F degrees. I braved my way to take Seth to School at 0830, walked to the mailbox at Noon and then ventured out to get Seth out of School at 1600 hours. Praise The Lord, it will return to 60F High and 40F Low on Saturday; Amen!

Fred W said:

So... if I was looking for a superbly designed motorcycle that might have some mechanical problems, will definitely cost too much, will be relatively unsupported (at least here in the US), and I felt like drinking the BMW superiority Kool-Aid, well, I know where I'd turn straight away.

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Yeah...Like the Triumph is going to have any better product support. Actually, BMW has very good support and will go to great lengths to ensure their customers are taken care of. Besides...The Beemers are VERY easy to work on. The engine is nearly hitting the rider in the leg for God's sake...

Yamaha has built yet another GS wannabe and not even done an admirable job doing it. Just ask AVGeek who dropped his S10 at a near stop on a trail and had to have it towed home because it punched the radiator. Not good...

I have seen you GS-A go down hard, bend hard parts, and nearly flip over...Then the rider got back on it and rode it home.

Don is right. Comparing the Explorer or S10 to a GSA is like comparing a 4x2 truck to a tricked out 4x4the Trail truck. The differences in protection, suspension and build are so different that attempting to turn a standard GS into a GS-A isn't even a good idea.

People can talk smack about the GS-A all they want, but most of it is just talk. Most people who have complaints about them have never ridden one. They're drinking their own form of Koolaid just cuz they think it sounds cool.

Koolaid propaganda.. (f800gs)

Throw in a dry weight of just 392 lbs, six-speed gear box, switchable ABS, wide foot rests and a 4.2 gallon tank located under the seat for a low center of gravity, and you get a enduro light enough for amazing handling no matter where you're headed.

Click to expand...

dcarver said:

Koolaid propaganda.. (f800gs)

Throw in a dry weight of just 392 lbs, six-speed gear box, switchable ABS, wide foot rests and a 4.2 gallon tank located under the seat for a low center of gravity, and you get a enduro light enough for amazing handling no matter where you're headed.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

And our Amigo Don Carver is once again 100% correct in his motorcycling assessments, dcarver is truly uncanny in his unerring analysis of the legendary Motorraden von Deutschland. Just take a look at this hard charging, tough as nails, Exquisite Lover of Beautiful Senoritas, Tequila Swigging, Ass Kicking and Muy Guapo Son of a Bitch riding dirt way down in Mexico's Copper Canyon ese:

I've had the itch for an Adventure Bike ever since I rode that 990 KTM in New Zealand back in '09. My problem though is storage and either the FJR or the WR would have to go. If I was really forced to choose it would be the FJR and I would replace it with a Super Tenere but that is not going to happen since I still enjoy the FJR way too much. I just can't justify tripping over three motorcycles in a garage that is no bigger than a small closet. Now if I won the lottery...

GS drive shaft, so much for the bullet proof theory.

Panman and I talked to GS fellow from San Francisco up on White Pass, WA this summer. He was coming up from San Francisco to do that Sasquatch Run. Drive shaft died in OR with under 13,000 of the bike. He had it towed to Portland. Flew home and then flew back to Portland when it was fixed. The shaft got so hot that it destroyed more than just the shaft. He was very angry about the shaft but still was drinking the col-aid.