This Will Be Very Helpful to All Riders
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HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Spike strips do not "blow out the tires" of vehicles they are deployed on. Yet another TV myth perpetuated by ignorant people who actually have no idea what they're talking about.
Here's what all you "Oh cops are mean" people fail to understand. The contempt those guys show for that cop is the exact same contempt those guys show for your wife or mom, or kids at a red light. It's the same contempt they show teachers, business people, their parents, and anyone who dares to not recognize they are the center of the universe. They don't give a shit if they lose control of their bike and it flies into the windshield of a school bus. There's no accountability anyway because all you bleeding heart cry babies think they should get a break because poor junior's mom couldn't get him a cell phone when he was 8.
What you don't know is that the percentage of stolen motorcycles in that group is much higher than normal. Probably 10-15% of them. Of those stolen bikes, a larger than normal percentage were taken during violent encounters like armed robberies, or home invasions. A larger than normal percentage of those guys have robbed a business with a weapon within the last 5 days. A larger than normal percentage have recently violently raped a woman, and they just loooooove kicking their girlfriends'/wives' asses.
You really think the contempt they showed there stops when they step off their motorcycles? Those are the guys that will tell you and your kid to get fucked when you ask them to quiet down in a movie. Have any idea how many of them are armed, and how many are probably armed with stolen guns? I do.
Yeah, cops are big and mean. Who are we to dare try to stop those poor misunderstood youth from having a little fun? It was smart of that cop to just ride away, because if one of those dummies had died, no matter what, it would have been the cops fault...Thanks to people just like you. You're all very forgiving until one of them kills or hurts a member of your family. Then all of a sudden, it's, "Well, why didn't those cops to something to predict the future and put a stop to this? By God I pay their salary!!"
Here's what all you "Oh cops are mean" people fail to understand. The contempt those guys show for that cop is the exact same contempt those guys show for your wife or mom, or kids at a red light. It's the same contempt they show teachers, business people, their parents, and anyone who dares to not recognize they are the center of the universe. They don't give a shit if they lose control of their bike and it flies into the windshield of a school bus. There's no accountability anyway because all you bleeding heart cry babies think they should get a break because poor junior's mom couldn't get him a cell phone when he was 8.
What you don't know is that the percentage of stolen motorcycles in that group is much higher than normal. Probably 10-15% of them. Of those stolen bikes, a larger than normal percentage were taken during violent encounters like armed robberies, or home invasions. A larger than normal percentage of those guys have robbed a business with a weapon within the last 5 days. A larger than normal percentage have recently violently raped a woman, and they just loooooove kicking their girlfriends'/wives' asses.
You really think the contempt they showed there stops when they step off their motorcycles? Those are the guys that will tell you and your kid to get fucked when you ask them to quiet down in a movie. Have any idea how many of them are armed, and how many are probably armed with stolen guns? I do.
Yeah, cops are big and mean. Who are we to dare try to stop those poor misunderstood youth from having a little fun? It was smart of that cop to just ride away, because if one of those dummies had died, no matter what, it would have been the cops fault...Thanks to people just like you. You're all very forgiving until one of them kills or hurts a member of your family. Then all of a sudden, it's, "Well, why didn't those cops to something to predict the future and put a stop to this? By God I pay their salary!!"
supertankerm60a3
Well-known member
Well, I do not think the riding a motorcycle should invoke special protections. Not using a spike strip or pit maneuver because an individual chooses to use a mode of transportation that is inherently riskier than the median mode of transportation should NOT make this individual immune from risky and or dangerous methods of apprehension that are standard operating procedures like spike strips of pit maneuvers.
It boils down to a very simple fact: Bikes are more likely to escape from police, they are also more likely to injure or kill their riders. You know the risk when you crank the throttle.
After watching this video, AND THREE FOLLOW UP VIDEOS POSTED BY THE GUY ( I will not post his name here because 1,I don't remember it 2,I know I can't spell it 3,I don't want to reopen the follow-up link and cut and paste it), he deserves several years in prison, so do everyone appearing in more than one of his videos. THEN, if (and only if) it turns out he is not a us citizen, as I suspect, he should be deported. Banished I say! Never to return!
Motorcyclists have developed the out for blood attitude and start screaming every time there is an accident involving a bike no matter the actual fault. Several years ago, an idiot passed a large group of Harley riders, he ran an oncoming car off the road, that car, in turn loosing control spun out on the shoulder, crossed both lanes and ran into quite a few bikes, killing (I think) seven. People, some here (again, I think) were screaming for prison for that hapless driver. It wasn't their fault.
I know the risks, If someone has a slight lapse in awareness that increases the risk I chose to take, that is just part of life. We all have lapses in awareness, admitted or not.
If, on the other hand, I am performing a LEGAL maneuver, (lane sharing) and they go out of their way to block my path (an ILLEGAL maneuver though hard to prove) I really want to take out a windshield or take off a mirror (yes, i know, illegal) same goes for the car two cars up that decides he is being tailgated so he keeps stepping on the brakes and slowing down, on purpose, to 15 MPH (a passive-aggressive form of road rage that is also ILLEGAL) until I go around BOTH OF THEM on the shoulder, on the horn and on the rev-limiter and out of my mind! If he had jumped out on the shoulder while I was on it I would have no legal grounds to gripe, we would both be in the wrong.
Frankly, I think that gang should be charged under RICO statutes, for ... something and as many of them as possible locked up.
AFAIC, if someone runs from the police, they NEED to be stopped for no other reason than to find out who they are and if they are wanted for anything. If the cops don't chase people who run, It encourages people to run in the first place. The members of that gang ran because they thought they would get away with it, and MOST of them will have.
It boils down to a very simple fact: Bikes are more likely to escape from police, they are also more likely to injure or kill their riders. You know the risk when you crank the throttle.
After watching this video, AND THREE FOLLOW UP VIDEOS POSTED BY THE GUY ( I will not post his name here because 1,I don't remember it 2,I know I can't spell it 3,I don't want to reopen the follow-up link and cut and paste it), he deserves several years in prison, so do everyone appearing in more than one of his videos. THEN, if (and only if) it turns out he is not a us citizen, as I suspect, he should be deported. Banished I say! Never to return!
Motorcyclists have developed the out for blood attitude and start screaming every time there is an accident involving a bike no matter the actual fault. Several years ago, an idiot passed a large group of Harley riders, he ran an oncoming car off the road, that car, in turn loosing control spun out on the shoulder, crossed both lanes and ran into quite a few bikes, killing (I think) seven. People, some here (again, I think) were screaming for prison for that hapless driver. It wasn't their fault.
I know the risks, If someone has a slight lapse in awareness that increases the risk I chose to take, that is just part of life. We all have lapses in awareness, admitted or not.
If, on the other hand, I am performing a LEGAL maneuver, (lane sharing) and they go out of their way to block my path (an ILLEGAL maneuver though hard to prove) I really want to take out a windshield or take off a mirror (yes, i know, illegal) same goes for the car two cars up that decides he is being tailgated so he keeps stepping on the brakes and slowing down, on purpose, to 15 MPH (a passive-aggressive form of road rage that is also ILLEGAL) until I go around BOTH OF THEM on the shoulder, on the horn and on the rev-limiter and out of my mind! If he had jumped out on the shoulder while I was on it I would have no legal grounds to gripe, we would both be in the wrong.
Frankly, I think that gang should be charged under RICO statutes, for ... something and as many of them as possible locked up.
AFAIC, if someone runs from the police, they NEED to be stopped for no other reason than to find out who they are and if they are wanted for anything. If the cops don't chase people who run, It encourages people to run in the first place. The members of that gang ran because they thought they would get away with it, and MOST of them will have.
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mcatrophy
Privileged to ride a 2018 FJR1300AS
I think we are seeing a cultural difference in attitudes.
Police chases occur in the UK, but are aborted if they are considered too dangerous for innocent members of the public or for the criminal. It's up to a central controlling officer to decide when the point of "too dangerous" occurs, not the chasing officer(s).
Using spikes on a motorcycle is, in my opinion, immediately "too dangerous".
Looks like some of us are going to have to agree to disagree.
Maybe a lengthy discussion over a beer
is called for.
Police chases occur in the UK, but are aborted if they are considered too dangerous for innocent members of the public or for the criminal. It's up to a central controlling officer to decide when the point of "too dangerous" occurs, not the chasing officer(s).
Using spikes on a motorcycle is, in my opinion, immediately "too dangerous".
Looks like some of us are going to have to agree to disagree.
Maybe a lengthy discussion over a beer
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FWIW, the asshats in that video did not actually flee from the motor cop. They just did not comply by pulling over, and then waved to the cop telling him to go away (which he then did). There is a small but significant difference, IMO.
I think the cop in that video did exactly the right thing. He was able to collect enough information to pursue these miscreants at a later time when it would not endanger any lives, either of the perpetrators, the LEO himself or the surrounding public.
Throwing down spike strips on motorcyclists would not be warranted for this. While spike strips do not cause explosive tire blowouts, they do cause rapid deflation, and a rapidly deflating front tire is pretty likely to cause a crash. The crashing motorcycle could then actually end up harming some of the nearby public in addition to the suspect. Escalation of a bad situation is seldom in the public's best interest.
My main concern is still where you would draw the line. Use of potentially lethal force is, and should always be, reserved for situations where public (or the LEO) is in direct and imminent danger of being harmed, or the suspect is known (for certain) to be fleeing from engaging in such a crime. You can't just assume them to be fleeing for that reason. I don't care how much of a slime ball you think they may be, simply failing to comply to a police traffic stop should not qualify for the use of potentially lethal force.
I think the cop in that video did exactly the right thing. He was able to collect enough information to pursue these miscreants at a later time when it would not endanger any lives, either of the perpetrators, the LEO himself or the surrounding public.
Throwing down spike strips on motorcyclists would not be warranted for this. While spike strips do not cause explosive tire blowouts, they do cause rapid deflation, and a rapidly deflating front tire is pretty likely to cause a crash. The crashing motorcycle could then actually end up harming some of the nearby public in addition to the suspect. Escalation of a bad situation is seldom in the public's best interest.
My main concern is still where you would draw the line. Use of potentially lethal force is, and should always be, reserved for situations where public (or the LEO) is in direct and imminent danger of being harmed, or the suspect is known (for certain) to be fleeing from engaging in such a crime. You can't just assume them to be fleeing for that reason. I don't care how much of a slime ball you think they may be, simply failing to comply to a police traffic stop should not qualify for the use of potentially lethal force.
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BigOgre
Well-known member
Same here and for some time now, that is at least in the jurisdictions I'm familiar with. Supervising officer has to assume control of the pursuit and assess why and how it's occurring e.g. what's he wanted for, speed, traffic conditions, etc. There's been enough situations where there have been attempts to hold the police accountable for the outcome of these things (read lawsuits) that those types of SOPs developed. "Well if they didn't chase him this all wouldn't have happened!" How you and your neighbors feel about such a view looms large and is the stuff that shapes societies.
Geezer
Parsimonious Curmudgeon
I have to agree with Zilla's perspective. These idiots are the new outlaw motorcycle gangs and they don't care who they hurt as long as they impress their friends.
TomInPA
Well-known member
Turns out the perpetrator posted his video on his Facebook page and Youtube. If you want to see what an asshat is, this 32 year old juvenile delinquent is the definition of it. He was arrested two days ago and is out on $45000 bail. From his page, you can see this is a routine pattern of behavior for him. Apparently Fridays are "wheels up" day.
This guy has 300,000 social media followers. The GoPro Hero 4 he was using was given to him by GoPro, a sponsor. His bike and gear are all provided by sponsors, and his stunts are advertizing. In other words, he is paid to do this crap. I don't know if the legal system can send a strong enough message to deter this kind of social outlaw/ social media star; but it is not like your miscreant behavior as a kid. This guy makes his living through social media as a stunter, "athlete" and outlaw. This is a social disease, and it may be contagious.
This guy has 300,000 social media followers. The GoPro Hero 4 he was using was given to him by GoPro, a sponsor. His bike and gear are all provided by sponsors, and his stunts are advertizing. In other words, he is paid to do this crap. I don't know if the legal system can send a strong enough message to deter this kind of social outlaw/ social media star; but it is not like your miscreant behavior as a kid. This guy makes his living through social media as a stunter, "athlete" and outlaw. This is a social disease, and it may be contagious.
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Pterodactyl
Well-known member
Not any of that warm a$$ beer, tho.I think we are seeing a cultural difference in attitudes.
Police chases occur in the UK, but are aborted if they are considered too dangerous for innocent members of the public or for the criminal. It's up to a central controlling officer to decide when the point of "too dangerous" occurs, not the chasing officer(s).
Using spikes on a motorcycle is, in my opinion, immediately "too dangerous".
Looks like some of us are going to have to agree to disagree.
Maybe a lengthy discussion over a beeris called for.
mcatrophy
Privileged to ride a 2018 FJR1300AS
.
One troubling aspect of this whole thing is that the CHiP cop was wearing Fox MX gloves.
That seems kind of odd, doesn't it? Is it possible these YouTube morons had someone impersonating a CHiP so they could tape it and become infamous? They sure seem awfully proud that they told the cop to go away and he did.
That seems kind of odd, doesn't it? Is it possible these YouTube morons had someone impersonating a CHiP so they could tape it and become infamous? They sure seem awfully proud that they told the cop to go away and he did.
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TomInPA
Well-known member
Wheatie, you picked that image from the FB page, didn't you? I did notice that is old-issue BMW rather than the current CHP Kawasaki. I see at least one article they may be adding Harley Davidson Electra Glides to the fleet, in which case, they won't be hanging with the Stuntas anyway. Can anyone verify they are buying Harley?
They seem to make a habit of cavorting with cops.
They seem to make a habit of cavorting with cops.
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ionbeam
2 FUN
^^^^^ Why does everything in the above picture have a shadow directly under the vehicle except for the bike? Not that anybody would PhotoChop a picture....
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
I'm with Allan. Why would 4 cars be blocking the freeway?? Something's up with that picture...but that guy's definately a douche bag.
supertankerm60a3
Well-known member
There is a shadow under the bike in that picture. The bike is too tall and narrow for the shadow to be pronounced with the overcast. if you look at the 'outside' of the cars the shadow is just as pronounced as it is around the bike. Sorry Ionbeam, not photoshopped.
bluesdog
Well-known member
I'd like to know who all the sponsors are so I may boycott them. As a matter of fact, maybe we should ALL boycott them
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Silver Spirit has an awesome idea. It'd be good to email them and let them know we won't buy their crap if they continue to 'sponser' dumbass behavior like this.
However, boycott or not, when one of these dummies hurts or kills someone, the victim or the victim's family is gonna take a large piece out of the sponsers' asses. They'll pay a fortune for encouraging the behavior.
However, boycott or not, when one of these dummies hurts or kills someone, the victim or the victim's family is gonna take a large piece out of the sponsers' asses. They'll pay a fortune for encouraging the behavior.
SkySoldier
Well-known member
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Twigg" data-cid="1187754" data-time="1414251237"><p>
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Pterodactyl" data-cid="1187629" data-time="1414189920"><p><br />
The willful contempt for the police officer makes this far more egregious than a mere traffic violation IMHO.</p></blockquote>
<br />
One of the problems we are facing, and not merely in the sphere of motorcycling, is that many cops think that "contempt of cop" is a license to raise the seriousness of an offense to the point where they feel justified in taking any action they deem appropriate. Sometimes the safest course is simply to let them go, or call a helicopter and follow them at a safe distance. They will be caught eventually, even if not today. However fast a motorcycle is, very few can evade a helicopter pursuit.<br />
<br />
Mis-behaving on a highway, where a clear danger to others is not an immediate threat, is simply a ticket. Cops over-reacting simply because someone was foolish enough to disobey them should not be an excuse to take actions that could lead to a loss of life.<br />
<br />
I am getting a little tired of hearing stories where the cop later says "He was reaching for his waistband".</p></blockquote>
The officer used a tremendous amount of restraint here. The dash cam is a powerful tool however. Contrary to what you believe, a majority of police actually do use restraint. These things are just not reported on. Many agencies have specific policies on how a pursuit should be conducted. An officer who disobeys these procedures wil likely throw their career in the toilet and open themselves up to liability should someone get injured when the pursuit should have been terminated or was ordered to be terminated. You can't get them all the time but that dashcam is a great tool for later. Also, an aircraft or helo is not always available and the cost of employing them is not always beneficial. Spike strips or a PIT would most likely be a bad idea IMO...
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Pterodactyl" data-cid="1187629" data-time="1414189920"><p><br />
The willful contempt for the police officer makes this far more egregious than a mere traffic violation IMHO.</p></blockquote>
<br />
One of the problems we are facing, and not merely in the sphere of motorcycling, is that many cops think that "contempt of cop" is a license to raise the seriousness of an offense to the point where they feel justified in taking any action they deem appropriate. Sometimes the safest course is simply to let them go, or call a helicopter and follow them at a safe distance. They will be caught eventually, even if not today. However fast a motorcycle is, very few can evade a helicopter pursuit.<br />
<br />
Mis-behaving on a highway, where a clear danger to others is not an immediate threat, is simply a ticket. Cops over-reacting simply because someone was foolish enough to disobey them should not be an excuse to take actions that could lead to a loss of life.<br />
<br />
I am getting a little tired of hearing stories where the cop later says "He was reaching for his waistband".</p></blockquote>
The officer used a tremendous amount of restraint here. The dash cam is a powerful tool however. Contrary to what you believe, a majority of police actually do use restraint. These things are just not reported on. Many agencies have specific policies on how a pursuit should be conducted. An officer who disobeys these procedures wil likely throw their career in the toilet and open themselves up to liability should someone get injured when the pursuit should have been terminated or was ordered to be terminated. You can't get them all the time but that dashcam is a great tool for later. Also, an aircraft or helo is not always available and the cost of employing them is not always beneficial. Spike strips or a PIT would most likely be a bad idea IMO...
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SkySoldier
Well-known member
So damn true!!!!
Bill Lumberg
Merica
It was a perfect opportunity to drift some sabre red behind him.
