Autopsy of my ignition switch (incl pictures)

[Constant Mesh]

If it's made similar to my '04 switch I don't believe there's any additional tension on the wires after the switch and wire bundle are installed on the bike. The cable tie holding the wire bundle at the switch was likely installed by the switch assembly vendor before the switch was installed on the bike.

Don't really understand why they route so much current through that switch. Run the ignition power through the switch and route all the remaining power through an auxiliary relay controlled by the switch.

 

[SockMonkey]

If the current through the switch is actually softening the tin lead solder, wicking off the old solder and re-soldering with lead free solder would buy you a little more margin temperature wise, as it melts at a higher temp.

It's extremely unlikely that Yamaha's sub-contractor that manufactured those switches used solder with lead content. That's been considered an absolute no-no for decades (mostly owing to toxic lead vapors). Lead-free, resin core solder is and has been the standard for modern electrical and electronics work - particularly assembly line work, for quite some time.

As an aside, I'm far from convinced that it's excess heat resulting from high current draw causing these solder joint failures. I know what that looks like from years spent building electrical panels for a wide variety of high- and low-voltage applications. I've seen heat-related failures and this doesn't look anything like that. To my eye, this looks like a simple manufacturing defect caused by (most likely) an ill-trained assembly worker. (Ionbeam: The solder that's "reflowed into a smooth dome" was most likely because of pre-tinning of the copper contact area. Once tinned, my guess is that the contact area was never heated correctly when it came time to solder the wires to the switch base and the wire was only attached by a very, very small amount of solder right along the rim of that contact area. The solder flowed correctly on the wires, but "cupped" over the cooler, pre-tinned contact area. The reason you see the wires on the bottom of the joint is because the solder wanted to draw up towards the heat source - which was likely from above, during the soldering process leaving the wires exposed. For solder to flow correctly, the surfaces of the components to be joined must be of equal temperature or the solder will pool towards the hotter of the 2 surfaces.) Vibration is what most likely caused this mis-soldered joint to ultimately fail. Not heat. Nonetheless, it is indeed a manufacturing defect.

In my opinion, the fix until a recall is issued is to remove the switch, dis-assemble it, and re-solder each of the joints. A 25-30 watt iron and a quality, electronics-grade lead-free, resin core solder will do the job. If you're not confident in your soldering abilities, take the assembly to an old-school TV or radiorepairman (ah, tubes...).

 

[ELP_JC]

Hey Ponyfool, now that you have your switch apart, it wouldn't be difficult at all to swap cylinders so you could keep your key. I had to take apart the cylinder on my GTO due to a shitty system of locking the steering column that lead to being unable to remove the key. I took it completely apart, and was surprised how simple it was. Just watch the little springs holding the 'blades, and note how it should go in.

I refuse to pay for an extended warranty just to cover a defect, and won't do that myself. Hope you can fix it yourself with your cylinder key. Keep us posted man.

JC

 

[sparked]

hey ponyfool [scott ?]

given that none of us [or very few] want to ride around with spanners and soldering irons so that at the end of a 6 or 8 hundred mile day [or, worse, in the middle of one] we can fix the ignition system.

you're right yamaha needs to respond.

if you ever figure it out post it:

red wire does ?what; what system

brown wire ?

blue and yellow ?

blue and white ?

it might be helpful, when "reverse engineering" a problem to have a simple guide [is it time to break out the "soldering iron" at the next gas station or rest area ??? or ... what]

ride safe

sparked

 

[Barabus]

Scott,

This thread has been linked in the pinned thread entitled "FJRF003: Ignition Failures on FJRs". Thanks and great report.

Barry

 

[ponyfool]

now that you have your switch apart, it wouldn't be difficult at all to swap cylinders so you could keep your key.

I refuse to order a new switch for now. I have successfully completed the soldering and all is good for now. If it breaks again, only then will I consider ordering a new "defective" switch. If they finally issue a recall, I'll get it replaced then.

given that none of us [or very few] want to ride around with spanners and soldering irons so that at the end of a 6 or 8 hundred mile day [or, worse, in the middle of one] we can fix the ignition system.

If you have a failure on the street like I did, simply carrying a pair of angle cutters and two wire nuts (or a 30+ amp switch with screw terminals and a single wire nut) will get you going again. Cutting the wire loom as close to the switch as possible to access the red and brown wires is what you want to do. If you have access, cut only the red and brown wires and either connect them with a wire nut or hook them up to the switch. If you end up cutting the two blue wires, just connect them with a wire nut. Oh, it's also a good idea to disconnect the battery before attempting such feats in case the hot lead accidentally touches metal.

red wire does ?brown wire ?

blue and yellow ?

blue and white ?

I'm still learning how to read the wiring diagram from the owner's manual, and I didn't test anything while I had it apart, but it appears the red wire is the hot wire connected to the battery through the main fuse. It appears the brown wire is the load line that supplies the switched power to the bike. One of the blue wires appears to go to the ECU. No idea where the other wire comes from or goes to.

 

[SkooterG]

My guess is that the smaller wires are part of the 'park' position - lights only?

 

[dcarver]

now that you have your switch apart, it wouldn't be difficult at all to swap cylinders so you could keep your key.

I refuse to order a new switch for now. I have successfully completed the soldering and all is good for now. If it breaks again, only then will I consider ordering a new "defective" switch. If they finally issue a recall, I'll get it replaced then.

given that none of us [or very few] want to ride around with spanners and soldering irons so that at the end of a 6 or 8 hundred mile day [or, worse, in the middle of one] we can fix the ignition system.

If you have a failure on the street like I did, simply carrying a pair of angle cutters and two wire nuts (or a 30+ amp switch with screw terminals and a single wire nut) will get you going again. Cutting the wire loom as close to the switch as possible to access the red and brown wires is what you want to do. If you have access, cut only the red and brown wires and either connect them with a wire nut or hook them up to the switch. If you end up cutting the two blue wires, just connect them with a wire nut. Oh, it's also a good idea to disconnect the battery before attempting such feats in case the hot lead accidentally touches metal.

red wire does ?brown wire ?

blue and yellow ?

blue and white ?

I'm still learning how to read the wiring diagram from the owner's manual, and I didn't test anything while I had it apart, but it appears the red wire is the hot wire connected to the battery through the main fuse. It appears the brown wire is the load line that supplies the switched power to the bike. One of the blue wires appears to go to the ECU. No idea where the other wire comes from or goes to.

Correct on the red and brown. Not sure of the smaller wires - I only phooked with the big wires,as mine too had the red wire break at the solder connection. If you only jump the big wires, the key switch is still needed to start and run the bike.

 

[Constant Mesh]

The two smaller wires connect between the sidestand and neutral switches and the ECU. This circuit automatically stops the engine when the transmission is in gear and the sidestand is lowered.

 

[artistonFJR]

So, in layman's terms, the simple-get-my-ass-home-fix is to nut the RED and BROWN wires together, avoid the blue wires if possible, use the key as normal, and remove the wire nut when I stop the bike at the barn?! If this is correct nod once, if wrong please correct and give a wink.

I don't want to be in BFE with the wife and find the mistress won't start!

Thanks

C

 

[ponyfool]

So, in layman's terms, the simple-get-my-ass-home-fix is to nut the RED and BROWN wires together, avoid the blue wires if possible, use the key as normal, and remove the wire nut when I stop the bike at the barn?! If this is correct nod once, if wrong please correct and give a wink.

:yes: That's correct.

You can also just connect the two wires to a simple 50amp switch like this

 

[Canes]

So, in layman's terms, the simple-get-my-ass-home-fix is to nut the RED and BROWN wires together, avoid the blue wires if possible, use the key as normal, and remove the wire nut when I stop the bike at the barn?! If this is correct nod once, if wrong please correct and give a wink.

:yes: That's correct.

You can also just connect the two wires to a simple 50amp switch like this

How much current are we talking about? Will a 20 amp switch work?

 

[ponyfool]

How much current are we talking about? Will a 20 amp switch work?

I was told 30amps, but the main fuse is a 50amp, and this triggers the entire bike's switched power, so I'd go with a 50amp just to be on the safe side. When I first did the hot wire, I used wire nuts. I went to a hardware store and bought a 10amp switch not thinking about power and when I got to Las Vegas, it melted through the switch. That's when I went to Pep Boys or Autozone (can't remember which one as they were right next to one another) and bought a 50amp switch for $5. It is now stored in my tool tray with a pair of side cutters and electrical tape in case my solder job repair fails.

 

[Canes]

How much current are we talking about? Will a 20 amp switch work?

I was told 30amps, but the main fuse is a 50amp, and this triggers the entire bike's switched power, so I'd go with a 50amp just to be on the safe side. When I first did the hot wire, I used wire nuts. I went to a hardware store and bought a 10amp switch not thinking about power and when I got to Las Vegas, it melted through the switch. That's when I went to Pep Boys or Autozone (can't remember which one as they were right next to one another) and bought a 50amp switch for $5. It is now stored in my tool tray with a pair of side cutters and electrical tape in case my solder job repair fails.

Thanks!

 

[gypsyrocket]

Solder job complete. There was just enough slack in the wires under the tank to allow me to use the stock wires. If/when it happens again, I'll have to replace the switch. By then, hopefully Yamaha will have stepped up to the plate!

I rode my 04 FJR about 50 miles today, stopped to go inside to the bathroom - when I came out - Nothing. No clock, no odometer, no movement of the tack or speedometer. I removed the fairing & ck'd the battery connections - all was fine. Saw nothing bent or broken (about as technical as I can get. :blink: Whilst enjoying the humidity and heat of Florida, I called a friend and waited two hours for the truck, loaded up the bike and went home. Ck'd a couple of more times - still nothing. Battery was showing 12 volts. Then as I walked by it on the way out the door, I flipped the switch - nothing. Tried again immediately & the sucker started, with no hesitation. And it's cranked 4 - 5 more times since then. I have 45K miles on the bike, the battery is less than 6 months old.

You can guess how frustrated I am. But glad to be able to find out more from you guys. Obviously, I'm out of warranty. Would the pinched/pulled wires so many of you have had create an intermittent problem? If the dealer is clueless, should I tell him to replace the ignition switch? I don't want to just throw $$ and parts at it, but I generally ride alone, am NOT mechanical, and need the assurance the puppy won't leave me stranded with no restaurant within hoofing distance.

The good news is - I was only 50 miles from home & it died near a decent restaurant. I recently returned from a 3,500 mile solo trip thru the Rockies, and other parts west. Getting stranded in the deserts of New Mexico wouldn't be as much fun as today.

Thanks!

 

[SkooterG]

I rode my 04 FJR about 50 miles today, stopped to go inside to the bathroom - when I came out - Nothing. No clock, no odometer, no movement of the tack or speedometer. I removed the fairing & ck'd the battery connections - all was fine. Saw nothing bent or broken (about as technical as I can get. :blink: Whilst enjoying the humidity and heat of Florida, I called a friend and waited two hours for the truck, loaded up the bike and went home. Ck'd a couple of more times - still nothing. Battery was showing 12 volts. Then as I walked by it on the way out the door, I flipped the switch - nothing. Tried again immediately & the sucker started, with no hesitation. And it's cranked 4 - 5 more times since then. I have 45K miles on the bike, the battery is less than 6 months old.

While this could be a bad ignition switch, from what you describe you simply had a dirty switch. What happened to you has happend to me on three seperate occasions: For no reason, nothing when turning the switch. Then, after cycling the switch on and off approximately 50 times, all of sudden everything is O.K. again. Like I said, I have had this happen three times with lots (thousands) of miles inbetween the different episodes. My FJR is an 04 with 152,000 miles and I still have the original ignition switch.

Since you have had no problems since it started working again, I think you simply had a dirty switch. Barabus did a post on his dirty switch where he disassembled it. Good info in that post. You should be able to find it around here.

 

[gypsyrocket]

Thanks ! Just the kind of info I hoped for. The forum is great because of you guys. I've read Barabus' post - I don't see me pulling the ignition, but maybe I won't sell it after all :glare: Amazing what a shower, glass of wine, & a night's sleep will do. I'll stuff some dry graphite or silicone spray in my bag, blow a puff of air down and around, and keep going. My biggest problem was I only cycled it a few dozen times - didn't know a million was the magic number

Do you commute on your bike - or live a life that lets you play that often and hard? Either way, I look forward to 152K on my FJR.

Thanks again!

I rode my 04 FJR about 50 miles today, stopped to go inside to the bathroom - when I came out - Nothing. No clock, no odometer, no movement of the tack or speedometer. I removed the fairing & ck'd the battery connections - all was fine. Saw nothing bent or broken (about as technical as I can get. :blink: Whilst enjoying the humidity and heat of Florida, I called a friend and waited two hours for the truck, loaded up the bike and went home. Ck'd a couple of more times - still nothing. Battery was showing 12 volts. Then as I walked by it on the way out the door, I flipped the switch - nothing. Tried again immediately & the sucker started, with no hesitation. And it's cranked 4 - 5 more times since then. I have 45K miles on the bike, the battery is less than 6 months old.

While this could be a bad ignition switch, from what you describe you simply had a dirty switch. What happened to you has happend to me on three seperate occasions: For no reason, nothing when turning the switch. Then, after cycling the switch on and off approximately 50 times, all of sudden everything is O.K. again. Like I said, I have had this happen three times with lots (thousands) of miles inbetween the different episodes. My FJR is an 04 with 152,000 miles and I still have the original ignition switch.

Since you have had no problems since it started working again, I think you simply had a dirty switch. Barabus did a post on his dirty switch where he disassembled it. Good info in that post. You should be able to find it around here.

 

[OlyFJR]

As noted in a previous thread, I feel that the root cause is heat. You can see heat discoloration in the copper contacts and on the sleeve of the red wire. The solder left in the cup on the black plastic part has reflowed into a smooth dome, whereas the wire itself lets you see the wire strands through the solder surface. Pulling forces on the wire bundle would ensure that the wires would be tugged out of place if the solder were to melt.
In some other failed switches the white block that the main contacts are attached to has gotten so hot that it has distorted enough to prevent the switch contact(s) from making electrical connection with the mating half of the switch in the black plastic part.

Good job Pony!!!

I agree. After taking mine apart I noticed that one of the contacts on the white block didn't move freely due to that part of the block melting and holding it in place. I also noticed that my red wire moved a bit which leads me to believe it has gotten hot enough to soften the solder to the main board.

I've logged a complaint with NHTSC and will be waiting/hoping like everyone else for a recall.

 

[Zorlac]

"dry graphite"

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...phite&st=29

I agree with post #30, careful with that Axe Eugene. :derisive: