Bike fires and starts then immediately dies.

[TAZ]

I have a 2001 FJR, I have no car licence and so ride all year round which is not that good for preventing rust or helping the heart rate when it is snowing and the roads are covered in ice.

My problem is that when I start the machine it fires without any problem and no unusual running sounds but then dies after 3-4 seconds.

Lead up to the problem- Occasional issue with pushing the start switch and nothing happening, the lights dim but the starter motor does not turn, no solenoid clicks (battery kept at full charge with optimate every night). On pushing the button again, engine will fire. The bike was running less than 24 hours ago and is used daily. Normally fires and runs first time.

Lights- all on and OK.

Dashboard lights- Self test OK, only neutral light is on when start button is pressed.

Dials- Self test completes OK.

Battery- Fully charged and checked with Optimate. Three months old.

Fuel Pump- Runs up OK.

Switches- Checked with side stand up and down, in gear and out of gear, clutch in and out and kill switch confirmed to be OK.

Fault Codes- I have just found this forum and have searched the posts. I had no idea that the FJR has a diagnostic system. It is dark now but first thing tomorrow I will be using it!! (Thanks already guys)

Other Symptoms- Smell of fuel with no leakage, is it flooded? I have found one of the posts suggesting switching off the fuel pump and turning the engine over. Again I will try that tomorrow. I have tried starting the bike with the throttle fully open, it starts, revs its head off and dies.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[madmike2]

Usually, when the FJR floods, it won't start and shut off. It just turns over and doesn't start so we hold the throttle wide-open and start the bike. Mine sumbled a bit then cleared itself.

This issue is strange to me but hopefully one of the "gurus" among us can offer insight.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Usually, when the FJR floods, it won't start and shut off. It just turns over and doesn't start so we hold the throttle wide-open and start the bike. Mine sumbled a bit then cleared itself.THis issue is strange to me but hopefully one of the "gurus" among us can offer insight.

I'm certainly no "guru", but I think it's been covered? -- maybe by 'radman' some time back. IIRC, I think he said that holding the throttle wide-open on start-up automatically defeats something else -- like, fuel-pump pressure?

IOW, there's more to WFO (at cranking speed) than just clearing the cylinders/combustion chambers...

 

[TAZ]

Thanks for the quick replies, unfortunately I have tried the throttle wide open start option. The bike starts revs high and then dies in the same time period as just a normal start. I have no idea why as the machine has been faultless for years.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[ionbeam]

Just a quick reply to get the ball rolling.

I believe you have two separate problems. The failure of the starter motor to spin is different than the failure to continue to run. As MM2 says, flooding is not your starting problem. Probably the first place to start is to simply get the little bugger running well again and then look into the starter occasionally not spinning afterward.

Does it die both hot and cold? Will it continue to run if you hold the throttle open a bit more than idle speed? Does the cold enrichment bring the revs up over 1,500 rpm? Does your gas tank make wooshing or sucking noises when you open the gas cap? Does it die like you switched off the red run/stop switch on the handlebars, or does it just seem to lack the will to keep running? Have you noticed black exhaust on startup? Ahem, have you done anything to your bike recently such as maintenance? I also have to ask if the exhaust pipes, right at the exit are dry and free of oil when you stick a finger in and give it a wipe... Have you looked into your gas tank to see if there is any rust?

Vacuum leaks can cause your exact symptoms. So can a weak fuel pump, or bad fuel pressure regulator. An improperly venting gas tank can cause the engine to peter out. Certainly low idle speed and failure to get cold idle rpms up over 1,500 rpm will cause the engine to die. If this problem is new, could it simply be bad gas? There is no fuel filter. There is an outside chance that the sidestand switch is vibrating and killing the engine. A dirty air filter would affect higher rpm operation but would cause no problem at idle speed unless something is really wrong. These are just suggestions and not a troubleshooting plan. Your answers to the previous questions will help us offer a logical troubleshooting sequence.

 

[TAZ]

I agree completely, the intermittent start issue seems to be down to a completely different fault

The start and then stop issue has me stumped.

Does it die both hot and cold? - Yes

Will it continue to run if you hold the throttle open a bit more than idle speed?- No it dies in the same time period 3-4 seconds.

Does the cold enrichment bring the revs up over 1,500 rpm?- Yes, the bike revs up like normal and sounds healthy until it dies.

Does your gas tank make wooshing or sucking noises when you open the gas cap?- No

Does it die like you switched off the red run/stop switch on the handlebars, or does it just seem to lack the will to keep running?- It dies like you have switched it off. I have tried starting it without moving anything, having the bike upright and moving the handle bars and the result is the same. It stops like clockwork after running up like normal. The kill switch is good.

Is there a point at which the start system / auto choke hands over to the normal running system? (this may be a really stupid question)

Have you noticed black exhaust on startup?- No

Ahem, have you done anything to your bike like maintenance recently?- No

I also have to ask if the exhaust pipes, right at the exit are dry and free of oil. - Yes

Have you looked into your gas tank to see if there is any rust?- No rust and the fuel filter is clean.

There is an outside chance that the sidestand switch is vibrating and killing the engine.- I will look at the switch, but if it is not in gear, would that kill the engine? I have tried to start the bike with the side stand down and in first gear and it does what you would expect (nothing).

Thanks again,

Taz

 

[madmike2]

Until you run through the diagnostics via the onboard computer, everything is on hold.

Sorry....we're all psotulating until you get those results/error code.

 

[TAZ]

Thanks again madMike2, I will let you know as soon as I have them.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Until you run through the diagnostics via the onboard computer, everything is on hold.Sorry....we're all psotulating until you get those results/error code.

Will there be trouble codes set without the engine trouble warning light coming on?

OP says only neutral light is coming on -- but, he says he must press the start button for that to happen...??

 

[Bustanut joker]

I know this may be obvious and might be construed as me being an ass as usual..But.

I had the same problem a few years back... Turns out the fuel was so low it wouldn't run on the sidestand. Just fire and run maybe a second then stall.. Proped her up on the centerstand and she ran like a freshly shaved sheep.. How's the fuel level?

 

[TAZ]

Sorry, I did not explain the dashboard light status correctly. When I turn the key the dash lights go through the start up checks correctly, after the fuel pump has run up the only light showing is the neutral light. Then I press the start switch and the bike fires and runs, after 3-4 seconds the bike dies, no spluttering just as though you have switched it off.

Sorry for my poor explanation.

Cheers,

Taz

 

[TAZ]

Thanks again but unfortunately I have just over a 1/2 tank of fuel.

Cheers

Taz

 

[madmike2]

Until you run through the diagnostics via the onboard computer, everything is on hold.Sorry....we're all psotulating until you get those results/error code.

Will there be trouble codes set without the engine trouble warning light coming on?

OP says only neutral light is coming on -- but, he says he must press the start button for that to happen...??

Uhm.....

Lights- all on and OK.
Dashboard lights- Self test OK, only neutral light is on when start button is pressed.

...just like mine after the initial diagnostic sweep.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Uhm.....

Lights- all on and OK.Dashboard lights- Self test OK, only neutral light is on when start button is pressed.

...just like mine after the initial diagnostic sweep.

Isn't the neutral light 'lit' just by turning the key to 'on' ?

 

[TAZ]

Yes all is normal, neutral light on as you would expect. The fault only occurs once the bike has started, before that all other indications / sounds / lights are normal.

Cheers

Taz

 

[madmike2]

Uhm.....

Lights- all on and OK.Dashboard lights- Self test OK, only neutral light is on when start button is pressed.

...just like mine after the initial diagnostic sweep.

Isn't the neutral light 'lit' just by turning the key to 'on' ?

Yes, after the gauge sweep and other (oil level, ABS, engine trouble) lights that illuminate during the initialization process, the green neutral light stays illuminated.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

OK, I was mis-reading it "only neutral light is on when start button is pressed" -- Mr. Literal here...

 

[wfooshee]

Four things will prevent the bike from starting, and four things will shut off a running bike.

Things that prevent the starter from running:

Ignition off

Kill switch

Sidestand down and not in neutral

Sidestand up, not in neutral, clutch not pulled.

Things that shut off a running bike:

Ignition off

Kill switch

Sidestand down and not in neutral

Tipover switch

You'll notice that except for one item, those lists are identical. We know none of the three common items are a problem because the starter works.

Lucky for you I dropped my bike in the driveway a couple of weeks ago when my foot slipped in the wet, and the bike didn't shut off. Just as I was thinking, "Why is the bike still running?" it stopped. About 2 seconds.

I think you've got a faulty tipover switch (or associated wiring.) Especially with the 2-3 second delay.

 

[TAZ]

Ok it would appear I was wrong! I have run the diagnostics and have no voltage to the fuel pump. I have checked the fuel injection system relay and it is operating correctly. The fuel pump resistance is in spec. The injection system fuse is good and the lean angle cut off switch is good.