Cruisers/Sport Touring in Europe

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trvler48

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A friend of mine and I were having a debate. We are getting ready tour parts of Europe on our motorcycles (mostly Italy and Germany), and we know that sport tourers are a much more common bike there than here in the good ol' US. He is taking his cruiser.

Has anyone toured Europe? How popular are cruisers over there vs. Sport Tourers. I have some guys here saying they all love Harleys. Of course, they are Harley owners so I am not sure how objective they are. But, in general, are cruisers becoming more popular in Europe? Or, is it still primarily an American phenomenon?

I think his interest is more than just curiosity. I think he may be looking at going toward a sport tourer before the trip. We can't seem to really find what generally are the popular motorcycles in Europe in comparison to the US.

Any feedback is appreciated.

 
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I'm afraid I can't speak to your inquiry, but one consideration might be whether the model of bike you choose to take is one that's commonly sold/serviced in the European market, ...not big chance you'll need a dealers assistance if your bike is 'well sorted', but then....

I'd be interested to know what shipper you've chosen to use, and what the cost factor of this endeavor is proposed to be [round trip?], if you've researched/arranged things to that extent yet?

 
trvler48: I'm with Mooseonagoose! Unless you're residing in United Kingdom and will be putting your bikes on the ferry at Dover bound for Calais, I'm baffled as to how it can be cost effective for shipping your bikes to Europe from North America!!

I have been returning to Europe to ride motorcycles every few years since I was stationed in Augsburg, Germany 1969/70.

Last rode the Pyrenees in May of 2008 with FJR Forum Member teerex51- Stef and his Italian FJR Forum. Rode the Alps in May of 2007 leading my own BMW Motorcycle Club https://www.azbeemers.org/forum My recommendation would be to use my friend Stefan Knopf owner of https://www.knopftours.com in Heidelberg for your motorcycle rental needs in Europe.

teerex has friends that own a rental outfit in Milan and I found their rates to be extremely fair also. I'm sure that our freund Alfredo-bikesniffer has rental contacts near his Haus! Were you planning on shipping your bikes from United States or Canada and keeping them there for future use? That makes sense. Mein freund Herr Knopf stores bike reasonably.

https://www.azbeemers.org/forum/index.php?t...21.msg10733#new If you are going this summer this is of no interest to you, but I have been pressured to lead another Alps Trip for AZ Beemers and this one is scheduled for 9/2-9/12 of 2011.

I intend to fly into Frankfurt on August 1, 2011 and rent a cherry red K75RT that Stef has in his rental fleet. Smoking deal: Six weeks with all insurance paid for $2,995. Will ride rental K75 North to Denmark taking the ferry to Goteborg, Sweden.

From Bergen, Norway I'll take the ferry to Aberdeen, Scotland. From Stranraer I will take the ferry to Belfast in Ulster, UK.

At least two weeks in Eire, then the ferry from Rosslare Harbour/Calafort in Irish Republic to Cherbourg-Octeville in France.

Cross Southern France to Milan, Italy to have bottle of grappa with teerex51; bringing him back a bottle of poteen from IRL!

On September First I will be back in Heidelberg to lead my AZ Beemers through the Alps. You are certainly invited with us!!!

https://www.azbeemers.org/forum/index.php?topic=536.0 Here's a link to Alps trip. Within this article are other Alps tour links.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=105188 Here is our Pyrenees Ride Report from teerex51 and Orestes.

Another great source of information: David "Orestes" Clarke from Chatham, England; he does a ton of FJR Continent touring.

I monitor the Italian FJR Forum regularly! It's link is on every one of Stef's posts and they do some incredibly exciting rides!

 
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trvler48: Since I have led over a dozen European motorcycle adventures for my friends since March of 1969 I was asked by fellow Phoenix motorcyclists and BMWRA/BMWMOA members to write about the process of riding the Alps. This article appeared in https://www.bmwmoa.org/forum and other BMW and Sport Touring publications. I certainly did not invent the Euro Touring wheel and one of my mentors is my friend from San Diego: John Hermann. Herr Hermann has written "The Bible" on touring Europe with his fine book "Alps and Beyond". You can order this book for $29.95, plus shipping, from https://www.whitehorsegear.com You may also feel free to contact me at [email protected] for any Euro planning help!

Alpine Pass Bagging 101 or Riding Les Alpes

Do-It-Yourself Style, by Don Stanley

June 2, 2007

The purpose of my report is providing you, an AZ Beemers and Fast Tour Riders Group member, basic information to plan your own Alps Adventure.

Accompanying my report is another report from my good friend Uri Schumm detailing the cultural, historical and social interactions that our trip encountered. Think of my narrative as a Clymer’s Shop Manual for the Alps

There are many tour companies providing escorted Motorcycle Tours of the Alps, Beach’s and Edelweiss are two premier companies serving the motorcyclist riding the Alps. You can go to www.bmca.com and www.edelweissbike.com to see their rates; at a price twice our expenditures.

Our trip consisted of eleven days total, with three of the days being flying days and eight days were aboard the motorcycles. We used www.expedia.com to purchase our American Airlines budget tickets, but www.cheaptickets.com or www.orbitz.com works fine also. Buying nine months ahead resulted in flights of $600; you pay more nearer to flying time.

First hand experience is everything and I heartily recommend Knopf Motorradreisen operated by Stefan Knopf in Heidelberg. His homepage is https://www.knopftours.com and e-Mail is [email protected] and my use of a 2004 BMW R1150 RT with top case, tank bag, and cell phone-travel service assistance resulted in a fee of $150 a day. If you like the K75 series, he has a fleet of these and they rent out for $100 a day; they are very well suited to the Alps. When you arrive at Frankfurt Rhein Main International Airport collect your baggage and walk down stairs to the train terminal. At the Service Desk are English speaking staff, purchase a ticket for 30 Euros to Kircheim/Rohrbach and Stefan’s shop is 300 yards west of the train station.

We tried to not spend over 100 Euros a night on average for lodging for two people and we easily met our goals. Here’s our easily obtainable routing from Heidelberg that provides a rider with 300 kilometers a day and up to 400 kilometers if you bag extra passes. Augsburg, 2 nights each in Merano and Lake Como, Landeck and Titisee-Neustadt for last night. Here’s some great M/C links for your use: https://www.alpineroads.com and https://www.bmwmoa.org

Day One: From Heidelberg to Ausgburg was a nice blend of high speed autobahn running and cruising the famous two lane Romantische Strasse, the old post road of Rome’s Legionnaires in their far flung colony of Germania.

Autobahn M/C Notes: Never stay in the far left lane except to pass! You’ll either by cited by the Polizei or you’ll wind up as a hood ornament on a Maserati going 250 kilometers an hour. There are speed limits on the Autobahn, but only at intersections of multiple routes or where there’s successive on/off ramps where you are reduced to 100 kph. Construction zones on the autobahn can be reduced to even 50 kph, but typically they are posted for 80. Other than these examples, run that BMW flat freaking out.

Secondary Roads: Euro authorities are lenient on your speed in rural areas, but they will cite you in a second and fine you 100 Euro on the spot if you speed through their towns and villages. Save the blast for the countryside.

Day Two: We rode the Romantische Strasse south to Merano, Italy today and start bagging our first passes. On the way we stopped to check out Bavaria’s Mad King Ludwig’s twin castles of Neuschwanstein and Hohen Schwangau. Here are the passes we nailed on our way to Sunny Italia.

1. Fern Pass, 1209 meters. 3. Piller Hohe, 1558 meters; Note: Piller Hohe is a nice pass because it has hundreds of very tight turns and the road is only 2 meters wide, you have to let another moto squeeze past when you encounter one. 4. Reschen Pass, 1504 meters. We got to ride them in the rain!

Day Three: Using Merano as our base Camp we did some serious Big Boy pass bagging: 1. Timmels Joch, 2509 meters. Note: This is one of the Disneyland E-Ticket pass rides in the Alps and the only one better is Passo di Stelvio, but unfortunately Stilfser Joch was still covered in snow. 2. Jaufen Pass, 2094 meters. 3. Penser Joch, 2214 meters. Last two hours of this day trip were on the Jenesian trail that runs from Bozen to Merano along a track just like Piller running through the villages of Moltina and Avelengo.

Day Four: We had many miles ahead of us to get to Lake Como and some amazing passes to Conquer! 1. Gampen Joch, 1518 meters. 2. Passo dello Tonale, 1884 meters. 3. Passo dello Aprica, 1176 meters. Technical riding!

Day Five: Using Abbadio del Lario as our base we explored Lake Como and the mountains above. We put our bikes on the car ferry at Varenna and were transported to Menaggio. At Carlazzo, next to Lago di Plano, we saw on our maps a twisty little road up to the Village of Cavargna. This road made the Piller and Jenesian tracks look like the Autobahn. Our arms were tired for the rest of the trip after negotiating this incredibly twisty route. We turned back when it turned into a GS track at Saint Nazzaro and returned via ferry to Mandello del Lario to tour the now historical Moto-Guzzi M/C factory.

Notes on Vignettes: To ride the Autobahns in Switzerland and Austria you will need to pre purchase a sticker that you display on your windshield. We avoided the autobahns because Austria charges 7.5 Euros for a ten-day vignette and Switzerland makes you buy a pro rated vignette at four Euros a month per year. Since we were in the fifth month we’d have had to pay 32E.

Day Six: Lake Como and through San Moritz to our day’s nightly destination of Landeck, Austria. Only significant pass today was Maloja at 1815 meters, the road followed the Inn River and it was beautiful; and rainy!

Day Seven: Pass City on our ride back into Germany to spend the night at Titisee-Neustadt. 1. St. Anton Pass, 1284 meters. 2. Arlbergpass, 1793 meters. Flexenpass, 1773 meters. 3. Hochtannberg Pass, 1679 meters. We then rode along the Northern Shore of Lake Constance through Switzerland.

Day Eight: We rode through the Schwarzwald-Black Forest today. Took the secondary passes through Munstertal to the A5 Autobahn, our route back to Heidelberg. Took everyone into France to show them the Rhine River and the river barges going through the canal locks. Afternoon rained like crazy!

We had a fantastic trip with great friends and great scenery to enjoy throughout. The roads are incredible and every turn brought a smile to our faces. Stefan Knopf provided us with motorraden that performed flawlessly.

We did hit a little bit of rain, but all in all we were very fortunate that the longest duration was two hours and mostly it rained at night while sleeping.

Only thing I’d do differently next time is to make use of renting one of Knopf Motorrad Reisen’s K75’s. Solo that’s all you’d need for Alps riding.

If you’ve any questions about Alps Riding, please call Don at 480-917-3863.

 
A friend of mine and I were having a debate. We are getting ready tour parts of Europe on our motorcycles (mostly Italy and Germany), and we know that sport tourers are a much more common bike there than here in the good ol' US. He is taking his cruiser. ...How popular are cruisers over there vs. Sport Tourers. I have some guys here saying they all love Harleys. ... But, in general, are cruisers becoming more popular in Europe? Or, is it still primarily an American phenomenon?

Any feedback is appreciated.
Consider this: the FJR was, initially, 'For Europe 0nly' (and a few other markets) -- not destined for the U.S. There are general differences between markets.

Having said that: European motorcyclists (and the importers) have noticed the American cruiser popularity phenomenon and have followed suit (to a some extent). European street-toughs saw the back-ends off the mufflers of their old-ratty BMW twins and ride around town (dressed the part) making noise. Well-heeled German/Austrian 'Burgers' show off their new Harleys -- 'because they can'. BMW even built/sold a cruiser model (for awhile).

But..., the "for the sake of style, only" type motorcycle may not fare well in an envionment where 'function' is a prime requisite. For instance: hard chassis parts 'grounding' -- an often low-slung cruiser issue -- on mountain road turns (repeatedly) can be more than a nuisance -- it can be deadly!

So, if you plan on touring the Alps (if that's your intention?), the choice of bike can be important -- and it need not be a Big Bike, either.

just my $.02 -- good luck :)

 
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Beemerdons and Mooseonagoose,

My friend and I are getting stationed in Italy so the shipping occurs with all our other household goods. I could not afford to do this otherwise. Both he and I will deploy shortly after we get there, so that is why we are planning to take some time for a ride. We know we will miss our motorcycles (and our families, of course) so we want to ride before we lock them in a dark basement. This is not our first deployment, so we already know that this will be our only window to ride for a long while.

I thought being stationed here at a naval post (one of the few army guys here), there would be a lot of folks who have ridden in Europe, but no one has done any touring. A few guys here are Harley owners who didn't take any long trips far from their naval bases, so their impressions were from the one or two towns they traveled to on weekends near the ports. I only have one army friend here who owned an 883 in Italy and says his lower back couldn't take the long trips.

My friend was worried that if we get on long trips and something happens to his cruiser, it is that much harder to find parts. He has a Yamaha. We know that there are enough Yamaha dealers in Europe, but if there aren't many cruisers on the road then they probably don't keep too many parts nearby and so a one day repair could turn into 3 days of waiting for parts. A reasonable concern.

Thanks for the article and book recommendations. I will check them out. Most of all, thanks for taking the time with the detail of your trip. That is similar to what I am looking to do. I will start near Vicenza, to Stuttgart, Heidleberg, and end near Bremen. That is, if that fits in the time line of my leave period. I will shorten it accordingly if I don't get the time.

 
trvler48

If there's any help you might need in Italy, drop me a line.

one day repair could turn into 3 days of waiting for parts. A reasonable concern.
Indeed. There ain't no such thing as a one-day repair, not for FJR1300s or even for Yamaha R-6s :eek:

Stef

 
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trvlr48: I fully see your situation now! I was on active duty myself for six years in the United States Army; stationed at Reise Kaserne in Augsburg for two of those years; and naturally because of Vietnam, I too got sent to hell and gone.

Hearing what the lay of the land is, I would just ride whatever you and your military buddy have available to you. Even though I bought a used 1966 BMW R60/2 from my off base German landlord, a lot of my fellow Artillerymen in 5/32nd ordered and bought Harley-Davidson XLCH Sportsters and FLH's from the Post Exchange and rode them all over Europe.

You've received a gold plated offer from teerex51 - Stef! He, Hook, Mek and the others of the Italian FJR Forum are some of the nicest guys you would ever want to meet; and, certainly the best riders I have ever had the pleasure of touring with!

 
How popular are cruisers over there vs. Sport Tourers.
Extrapolating from my experience all over Italy and just in Paris, I'd say it's at least a 10 to 1 difference, ST to cruisers. You see *very* few cruisers.

I think he may be looking at going toward a sport tourer before the trip. We can't seem to really find what generally are the popular motorcycles in Europe in comparison to the US.
I'd bet part of the discrepancy is simply the roads in Europe - they lend themselves more to the sport/sport touring rider.

 
Europe's most popular rides are sportbikes, mainly under 1,000cc.

In Italy, the best sellers are Kawa's 750 (nekkid :) ) and Honda's Hornet (also naked). Then you've got your FZ6s and FZ1s. But the truth is, 65% of new sales are maxiscooters (people leaving their cars behind and resorting to a cheaper form of transportation).

Sport-tourers and cruisers are a niche market. I reckon a total of no more than 300-400 STs were sold in Italy in 2008. That includes FJRs, C-14s, K-GTs etc.

Cruisers, including HD, Star, Kawa etc. , were sold in even smaller numbers.

As ShawnKing pointed out, part of the reason is the twisty roads, but other factors are the crowded city streets (in which a Fat Boy would be stuck in line behing cages) and of course the "Valentino Rossi effect". Big fat (and comfy) rides are considered uncool by the younger folks, apart from the higher sticker price they can't begin to afford.

Stef

 
trvler48: I'm with Mooseonagoose! Unless you're residing in United Kingdom and will be putting your bikes on the ferry at Dover bound for Calais, I'm baffled as to how it can be cost effective for shipping your bikes to Europe from North America!!regularly!
Oddly enough, it can be cost effective. While I was living in London, I had a Triumph I kept in the States shipped over (yea, pretty ironic). I had it shipped by Interconnex, the company that originally moved us the first time, on an "as available" basis. Basicly put on the back of somebody else's shipment. There were enough shippments at the time it only took a few weeks and cost less than $1000. Don't know about now though. So it just might be cheaper to ship your own bike if you are going to stay for several weks, instead of renting. Obviously better to have "the Firm" pay for the shipping but if anybody out there is thinking about touring Europe, renting is not the only affordable option. It is more complex as you have to do the insurance thing (no big deal really) and have someplace to drop the bike off on the way over and back. The big advantage is having your own bike with you, really cool to remember in later years that it was there too!

Also, from what I've seen when I was there, renting in the U.K. is a LOT more expensive than on the Continent. We called it "dollars for pounds", i.e., if it cost $25 here, it was 25 pounds there, or 25 euros across the channel. Same numeric value, they didn't do the conversion. One reason why it's so damn expensive to travel in England

 
This is why I love this forum. You can't get this good of advice from a travel brochure.

teerex51, thank you for the offer and the info. It does help a lot. I am off to do some training before I arrive in Italy around Dec time frame. I will keep you in mind.

I was stationed in Germany in the 90's and spent most of my time deployed in the Balkans. Then, I get stationed again in Europe only to spend most of it in the desert. So, I never got the chance to really experience Europe. I WILL NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE AGAIN. I will travel Europe on two wheels if it is the last thing I do. Having spent my tourist time is the major cities, it makes sense about the smaller bikes. Since I spent most of my summers in the field, I never saw many bikes at all except for the occasional mopeds. I do remember my German neighbors having a love-hate relationship with the Harleys that the Americans rode. They liked the image, but couldn't understand why the pipes had to be so obnoxious. Also, the sticker price on a Harley in Germany makes BMW's on this side of the pond look cheap - or at least that was true in the late 90s.

So, I will tell my friend he can stick with the cruiser. Still, I see he is looking for rational to move to a ST. Maybe I will nudge him along.

Beemerdons, thank you for your service! If you went back to Augsberg, you won't find much there. I was 4/67 Armor at Friedberg Barracks (the post of Elvis Presley) and that post was shut down. Very few bases are left compared with 10 years ago.

 
I trade rides, borrow, or rent in various countries and doing so in Europe's a breeze. You've gotten years of experience above. A few extra thoughts:

Rentals are easy and available from almost any dealer - dealers can be found on the web, then call and ask. It may be cheaper to take your bikes if there for more than a few weeks, but there are longer term discounts if you ask. Harley's got dealer in most major & somewhat major cities now, so parts are not as bleak as they were.

I still have the old International driver's license from AAA, but haven't been asked for it in years. Driver's license, passport, and a credit card are enough for almost anywhere. Speed cameras seem to be everywhere anymore & to rent in much of the EU now, you'll need a local address for the dealer to send speed citations to. Simply have the actual street address of your hotel with you. Insurance is normally part of the rental price but ask about how much you'll have to pay if there is damage. I've had "fully covered, don't worry about it" to more commonly "your deposit" (300 Euros for the Wee a few weeks ago), to "you must pay to have it repaired" even after they charged for insurance (moped in China).

Dress for weather riding & ATGATT. You just can't avoid riding rain on cobblestones, with lots of traffic, on congested streets. It's normal to be in the wet and you don't wnat a simple slip/fall to ruin the rest of your time, so be ready for it. Take your own helmet unless you want whatever is still living in the helmet from the last dozen wearers.

With the cobblestones, tight roads, cross traffic, lane threading, etc, cruisers and wide saddle bags will get through. Same with anything off the Italian autostrada, where the roads are constant left/right/up/down, interupted by passing through endless little villages. But it's much easier and more fun to ride a standard like a plain-Jane R-Beemer or even a WeeStrom. If you have your sport tourer, plan to leave the bags in a hotel room for day rides.

There are more & more cruisers and Yamaha/Star is well represented in the EU. Plenty of Harleys in the cities. Still, virtually no repairs anywhere happen as quick as in the US. The up-side to the Yam cruiser is that it's less likely to break in the first place.

As a soldier, you know about cameras and ziplocks to send buddies your photos like this:

SalutewindmillVstrom.jpg


Have fun!

 
Checkswrecks: Outstanding summation of the ins and outs of European bike rental and operation of motorcycles in Europe!

BwanaDik: You're right about bikes being more expensive to rent in UK. They are even more expensive to rent in Republic of Ireland! I just left Dublin on 3/15 and had previously inquired about renting a BMW F650GS Twin in Bray/Wicklow area.

Killer on the rental was they had a three-day minimum policy and their rates were a third higher than London/Manchester.

And the United Kingdom Ad-Mo rental rates are even a third higher again than I can get BMW's for at www.knopftours.com

 
Well,

Just got my orders. It looks like I am not going to get the chance to tour Europe after all. I will deploy right when I get there, then I will be assigned to North Africa.

I could put the FJR in storage, but I don't know how long until I can pull it out. I am probably going to try to sell it and maybe get a new one when this whole thing is over 2 or 3 years from now.

Thanks again for all the advice and feedback guys.

 
Well,
Just got my orders. It looks like I am not going to get the chance to tour Europe after all. I will deploy right when I get there, then I will be assigned to North Africa.

I could put the FJR in storage, but I don't know how long until I can pull it out. I am probably going to try to sell it and maybe get a new one when this whole thing is over 2 or 3 years from now.

Thanks again for all the advice and feedback guys.
CRAP.

Sorry to hear your dream trip has gone awry. I hope you get a chance to do it eventually...and I'm right there with ya. :clapping:

BTW, thank-you for your service and sacrifice.

...if it was up to me...you'd be touring.

 
Beemerdons - I may be in your neck of the woods in a month or so, & maybe can hook up to buy a beer for you. Priority for off-work time of more than an evening will be riding down to Fort Huachuca, where my brother is TDY. Ever have a problem on dirt roads with the white & green pickups?

trvlr - Sorry to hear the plans changed, but this may be an opportunity. Selling the Feej sounds reasonalbe, as there'll be something sparklier when you come back. But you ought to be able to buy a dual sport when you're over there. Maybe something solid & not too flashy or expensive to have fun on, like a used Honda African twin or Yam TDM?

Bob

 
Well,
Just got my orders. It looks like I am not going to get the chance to tour Europe after all. I will deploy right when I get there, then I will be assigned to North Africa.

I could put the FJR in storage, but I don't know how long until I can pull it out. I am probably going to try to sell it and maybe get a new one when this whole thing is over 2 or 3 years from now.

Thanks again for all the advice and feedback guys.
trvler48: When I was in US Army from 1968-1974 we Dogfaces had a saying: "THE BIG GREEN MACHINE COULD FUCK UP A WET DREAM!" I am sure that you Squids have a very similar saying. But when life hands you lemons, make up lemonade!

I have never ridden in Africa, even though I have twice, once in 1970 and once in 2007, stood astride my BMW motorcycles at Gibraltar looking across to the Atlas Mountains and the Great Sahara beyond. Riding Africa is on "Bucket List" big time!

If you wanted to call me at 480-917-3863 or post me at [email protected] for your mailing address, I would like to make you a short term loan of a video I own: Best of Morocco: A motorcycle trip through the Atlas Mountains and the Sahara. The film is put out by https://www.tourenfahrer.de and the text is in German. It covers the adventures of a dozen Germans, so all of their dialogue in this flick is auf Deutsch naturally. If you have the means to copy this disk that would be great; otherwise just mail it back to me in sixty days time. They are mounted on BMW's and Suzuki's; and an FJR or metric cruiser would run their route just fine; roads of Morocco connecting their major cities are really in very good surface shape.

They put their bikes on the ferry at Malaga, Spain and landed in Tangiers. Then south through Fez, Gorges du Ziz of the High Atlas to Erg Chebbi on the Algerian border. From there, west through Gorges du Todra, Gorges du Dades, Ait-Benhaddod to Marrakech in the Sahara Wastelands. North again through Cascades d' Ouzod, E-Hajeb, Ouazzane and finally back to the Mediterranean Sea in Ceuta. From there they took the ferry to Gibraltar and rode back home to Deutschland.

You and your bud know your situation best. Buy my two cents would be to get your bikes to North Africa: RIDE MOROCCO!!

 
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