Crush washer

[mdisher]

Part 2: The bike is on a conveyor belt, which moves at the same speed that the wheels turn......

Depends...

1: What tires are mounted on the bike and at what pressure?

2: Which oil is used? Dyno or Synthetic?

3: Does it have power bands installed?

 

[Fred W]

31 ft/lbs is 31 ft/lbs. It doesn't matter one iota to the threads in the pan if the washer has been crushed yet or not.

Either way, it's too much torque for a threaded aluminum drain pan.

 

[LAGO RUNNER]

Try fjrgoodies .com

 

[Karmak]

I, too, have never replaced an oil drain crush washer. Nor have I ever had a leak from the drain plug.
Now, a pressurized system, like a fuel rail, that would be a different story. New washers every time it has to be opened.

I never used a crush washer either, until the last 2 years. Reason? I'm the original "Stripper," that is, the "one turn too many" guy. When I use a crush washer, I saw that I don't tend to overtighten, it gives me a bit of margin for error. In all the years/bikes I never used any and never had any problems. However, I can understand the aggravation from "it's the principle of it" perspective.

 

[Karmak]

Well duh, the washer on the right has already been crushed, therefor attempting to torque to 31 ft/lbs won't serve much purpose. Once the drain plug is tight, that washer on the right isn't going to deform much more until bad things happen. :blink:
Technically, while the washer is being crushed, (left one being used), the torque is actually being applied to the drain plug, not the washer.

#2 Yep, that bike won't fly. The real question is how hard to balance would it be? :yahoo:

You are correct, but only to an extent. Your specs may or may not be correct at any given point depending on the amount of relative humidity, your height above sea level and the exchange rate relative to the US dollar and the Euro at the time of oil change.

 

[MrTwisty]

31 ft/lbs? Sounds like too much torque to me.

I just use a 3/8" ratchet and choke up on it a little so I don't overtighten.

Never had a leak. Never had a drain plug fall out.

As for the FJR on the conveyor belt:

If one attached a small pair of wings to the saddle bags, it may be able to get airborn if the conveyor is long enough and fast enough.

I that doesn't work, you could always attach a bunch of helium baloons to the handlebars for a little extra lift.

 

[user 213]

Well duh, the washer on the right has already been crushed, therefor attempting to torque to 31 ft/lbs won't serve much purpose. Once the drain plug is tight, that washer on the right isn't going to deform much more until bad things happen. :blink:
Technically, while the washer is being crushed, (left one being used), the torque is actually being applied to the drain plug, not the washer.

#2 Yep, that bike won't fly. The real question is how hard to balance would it be? :yahoo:

You are correct, but only to an extent. Your specs may or may not be correct at any given point depending on the amount of relative humidity, your height above sea level and the exchange rate relative to the US dollar and the Euro at the time of oil change.

Thank you for pointing out those important variables. I also forgot to mention the number of appropriate beer lifts prior to torqing the drain plug.

 

[Timbo2015]

I've never replaced a sealing washer on a car I've owned, and never had a leak. I've driven every car to at least 130,000 miles with oil changes every 3000 to 6000 miles. But I am sure the sealing device on a 2005 FJR is much inferior to that on, say, a 1984 Mercury Lynx. (Did I just admit I drove one of those pieces of S?)

Having said that, I ordered 10 washers at once two years ago. I think I have used one of them, not because I thought I needed to, just because I had a bunch. I have reused the same washer at least four times with not a drop of leakage.

As you might guess, I am firmly in the camp of those who say replacing the crush washer every time is not required. If it doesn't leak, you don't need to replace it. Also, if you use a torque wrench on a drain plug (a torque wrench on a drain plug!?) you are seriously over thinking things.

 

[wfooshee]

Also, if you use a torque wrench on a drain plug (a torque wrench on a drain plug!?) you are seriously over thinking things.

Agreed. Bearing bolts, cylinder head bolts, maybe axle nuts, I'll torque. I also torque the lug nuts on my cars. Other than that, you know when something is tight enough.

Best torque spec I ever saw: Something on my '95 Probe, I think valve cover bolts (soft rubber gasket) was 7 or 8 inch-ounces. I guess that's about finger-tight plus a quarter-turn?

 

[FJRay]

Gotta be winter. We sure are getting a lot of distance out of the washer thread. I like copper and I heat it and quench it once in awhile to soften it.

 

[Bearly Flying]

Ya but Ray, Your a Parking Lot Nazi Stormtrooper, Your probably just trying to torture the poor thing....

 

[Bugnatr]

Just use Guntur's method of torque- goodn'tight

 

[C&C]

I've got a suspicion that the 31 lb/ft is the factory torque (on a dry assembly). For those that have done their own first oil change, you'll remember that it seemed a gorilla tigthened the drain plug from the factory. After the first oil change though, the pan threads are going to have oil on them and 31 lb/ft is going to be too much, so be warned not to use this value. As far as the crush washer, it is important to know the correct orientation in installing a new one. There is a flat (or more flat side) and a rounder side; the flat side orients toward the oil pan (as this is a machined flat surface) and the rounder side of the washer, which is the crushable side, goes toward the drainplug (crushable to conform to the irregularity of the bolts flat). Once flattened, a very good mating surface is created between the drain plug and the oil pan, and as per the Service Manual, it is only needed to be replaced if damaged.

 

[Fred W]

I've got a suspicion that the 31 lb/ft is the factory torque (on a dry assembly). For those that have done their own first oil change, you'll remember that it seemed a gorilla tigthened the drain plug from the factory. After the first oil change though, the pan threads are going to have oil on them and 31 lb/ft is going to be too much, so be warned not to use this value. As far as the crush washer, it is important to know the correct orientation in installing a new one. There is a flat (or more flat side) and a rounder side; the flat side orients toward the oil pan (as this is a machined flat surface) and the rounder side of the washer, which is the crushable side, goes toward the drainplug (crushable to conform to the irregularity of the bolts flat). Once flattened, a very good mating surface is created between the drain plug and the oil pan, and as per the Service Manual, it is only needed to be replaced if damaged.

That would be the same service manual that specifies 31 ft-lbs torque for said fastener?

Being a cynical type, I think Yamaha just wants to sell more oil pans and helicoils...

Here is what I use in lieu of the Yamaha part. Linky

I did not go out of my way to find this. I already had a few in the garage, having used them successfully on my SAABs, and happened to notice they fit the Yammer plug perfectly. One should last as long as the bike.

As to torque for the plug, 12-14 ft-lbs would be more than enough. 31 ft-lbs on a drain plug is ridiculous. It ain't going anywhere...

 

[squeezer]

You are correct, but only to an extent. Your specs may or may not be correct at any given point depending on the amount of relative humidity, your height above sea level and the exchange rate relative to the US dollar and the Euro at the time of oil change.

I can't believe the stupid stuff posted here. It's a Japanese bike. You have to look at the exchange rate relative to the Yen.

Back on topic -- last time I needed to order a Genuine Yamaha Part, I just had 'em toss in a bunch of crush washers. I'm cheap too, but they're cheaper. No, I don't think you need to change it every time. I do it because feeling that thing crush is really how I judge the torque.

 

[AStar]

I'm just going to submit my procedure here. I purchase several oil filters and plug washers from FJRGoodies.com and change the oil filter and washer at every oil change. The washers are dirt cheap. No Right or Wrong that is just what I do.

 

[v65]

I've got a suspicion that the 31 lb/ft is the factory torque (on a dry assembly). For those that have done their own first oil change, you'll remember that it seemed a gorilla tigthened the drain plug from the factory. After the first oil change though, the pan threads are going to have oil on them and 31 lb/ft is going to be too much, so be warned not to use this value. As far as the crush washer, it is important to know the correct orientation in installing a new one. There is a flat (or more flat side) and a rounder side; the flat side orients toward the oil pan (as this is a machined flat surface) and the rounder side of the washer, which is the crushable side, goes toward the drainplug (crushable to conform to the irregularity of the bolts flat). Once flattened, a very good mating surface is created between the drain plug and the oil pan, and as per the Service Manual, it is only needed to be replaced if damaged.

That would be the same service manual that specifies 31 ft-lbs torque for said fastener?

Being a cynical type, I think Yamaha just wants to sell more oil pans and helicoils...

Here is what I use in lieu of the Yamaha part. Linky

I did not go out of my way to find this. I already had a few in the garage, having used them successfully on my SAABs, and happened to notice they fit the Yammer plug perfectly. One should last as long as the bike.

As to torque for the plug, 12-14 ft-lbs would be more than enough. 31 ft-lbs on a drain plug is ridiculous. It ain't going anywhere...

Wow it must be winter if I'm chiming in on this. I'm with C&C, my understanding is that torque values are dry torque values unless it says otherwise. Putting a dry torque value on an oil pan bolt has obvious issues, but that's the way I read it.

 

[Lake Powell]

I've always used/replaced the crush washer and never had a leak. I'll keep doing it - hope y'all don't mind.
And, W/C, the bike won't take off.

Of course it will fly, you just have to get it up to 119.267 mph! Duh, everybody knows that!

Wait, what are we talking about again?

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

31 ft/lbs is 31 ft/lbs. It doesn't matter one iota to the threads in the pan if the washer has been crushed yet or not. Either way, it's too much torque for a threaded aluminum drain pan.

31 lbs/ft of torque on a 14mm fastener is about 1/2 the generally recommended (proper) torque value for that size fastener installed in a non-ferrous medium.

The torque on threaded fasteners is a measure of the 'stretch' applied to the threads -- for proper holding force.

Agreed about the washer -- doesn't matter one-whit whether it was previously crushed, or not. There are places for crush washers that are set to torque values (automotive rear-ends) -- but, this isn't one of them.

I do tend to orient the 'flat' side toward the 'non-moving' part -- but, I really don't know why....

The correct torque is: about 1/2 turn before it strips.... :huh:

Shop mechanics learn all this stuff the hard way (maybe home 'tech-tyros', too?) :blink:

An old mechanic once told me: "They were building motorcycles long before they were building torque-wrenches!"

 

[Fred W]

31 lbs/ft of torque on a 14mm fastener is about 1/2 the generally recommended (proper) torque value for that size fastener installed in a non-ferrous medium.

You can't be serious. You're saying that because it's a 14mm plug you think the "generally recommended" torque value for it in an aluminum drainpan should be 62 ft-lbs? Maybe I am misunderstanding you, or maybe this more of that sarcastic humor going over my head.

The torque spec is not solely derived from the diameter of the threads. It also matters how many threads are engaged and the thickness and composition of the threaded material. I can see if we were talking about a solid aluminum block of some kind and a 14mm bolt that had an inch and a half of threaded engagement, but I guaran-damn-tee you'll be stripping those threads in our wimpy drain pan LONG before 62 ft-lbs. Guys are stripping them at 32 ft-lbs now.

AS to prior notes that the 32 ft-lbs is probably a "dry thread" spec. THat sure would be stupid since we are talking about a service manual (not an assembly manual) and an oil drain plug that will never have dry threads for the rest of its life.