Frustrated Scala Rider G4 user considering moving to Sena 20S.

[manglegrat]

Has anyone with a Sena 20S previously used Cardo Scala Rider G4s with either a passenger or companion rider and can provide a comparison?

I'm wondering if the upgrade would be worthwhile for us.

The issue I have with our G4 powerset - worse now that my wife has her own bike - is that we always ride with (foam) earplugs and it almost always activates way too quiet, even in always-on mode (VOX is off) at maximum volume, when she is talking to me.

I can talk normally and she always hears me OK, but I keep having to ask her to repeat and speak louder to get the thing to be audible for me, and she's getting plenty fed-up with that... When she starts with a shout it's usually OK, but often still a bit fuzzy/distorted - another thing we're getting fed up with.

I think that means it's not the speakers (my helmet) or microphone location (hers) - we both have Shoei Neotecs. It doesn't seem to be an output problem but an input/activation or processing one - it just doesn't seem to pick up on her voice.

We've swapped the units around but it persists, so it's not unit-specific. I haven't tried swapping the wife for one with a foghorn for a voice, as that might be a bit more expensive than trying another intercom and is likely to cause other issues off the bike.

This is annoying enough for both of us that I'm considering selling them on and trying the 20S. We're going on a 3wk bike tour of NZ next February (she's a passenger) and I want to get this sorted out before then.

The extra range might also be helpful, if it's really any longer than the G4 - so far it seems pretty short (like 500m) but we didn't have the antenna up. Must try that tomorrow and see if it helps...

Any input, anyone? Thanks in advance!

 

[Bust-A-Cap]

Has anyone with a Sena 20S previously used Cardo Scala Rider G4s with either a passenger or companion rider and can provide a comparison?
I'm wondering if the upgrade would be worthwhile for us.

The issue I have with our G4 powerset - worse now that my wife has her own bike - is that we always ride with (foam) earplugs and it almost always activates way too quiet, even in always-on mode (VOX is off) at maximum volume, when she is talking to me.

I can talk normally and she always hears me OK, but I keep having to ask her to repeat and speak louder to get the thing to be audible for me, and she's getting plenty fed-up with that... When she starts with a shout it's usually OK, but often still a bit fuzzy/distorted - another thing we're getting fed up with.

I think that means it's not the speakers (my helmet) or microphone location (hers) - we both have Shoei Neotecs. It doesn't seem to be an output problem but an input/activation or processing one - it just doesn't seem to pick up on her voice.

We've swapped the units around but it persists, so it's not unit-specific. I haven't tried swapping the wife for one with a foghorn for a voice, as that might be a bit more expensive than trying another intercom and is likely to cause other issues off the bike.

This is annoying enough for both of us that I'm considering selling them on and trying the 20S. We're going on a 3wk bike tour of NZ next February (she's a passenger) and I want to get this sorted out before then.

The extra range might also be helpful, if it's really any longer than the G4 - so far it seems pretty short (like 500m) but we didn't have the antenna up. Must try that tomorrow and see if it helps...

Any input, anyone? Thanks in advance!

My friends and I use the Sena 20S and SMH10; I have both. The newly released 20S has a few issues that Sena needs to correct ( too lengthy to list but you can get a good idea by going to the Sena forum and seeing for yourself). For my purposes which include using the intercom to communicate with my friends, listening to music, gps voice commands and using my phone; it fills the bill. Some other users may not be too thrilled with the 20S for various reasons but I'm keeping mine! I have a friend that has a similar helmet to the one that you and your wife use and he seems to transmit a bit more noise than my friends that have full face helmets. The Senas come with different mic options and you will have to experiment a bit to see which one is just right for you. Good luck and have a safe ride.

 

[sath182]

Use your G4s with the antenna up. Its primarily for the intercom and is essential to get the max range out of it. One of my buddies and I did a tour of the scottish highlands and found the range to be really good even when separated by many mountain curves.

As far as the vox is concerned, have you tried getting a different person to wear it out for a ride? With it set to low activation volume, my buddies set would activate and continuously transmit when he hit a certain rpm range ('09 R6-S). Other than that qi can only suggest making sure that the firmware is up to date.

Best of luck, and enjoy NZ!

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Pop and I use the G4 teamset and like it a lot. We set them to "always on" mostly because I never stop talking. The antenna up seems to help a bit, the sound is more clear if there is a bit of a gap between the bikes. Usually at least once per day I have to cycle the power and reconnect because the sound starts getting distorted. After that, it will usually be fine the rest of the day.

Perhaps your wife's voice is a tone or frequency that is confusing the sound canceling technology.

We have used our G4s for many thousands of miles now in rain, hail, sleet, intense summer heat, and winter's cold. They are not perfect but so far they have worked pretty well. I am actually surprised that they do still work as much rain as they have been through.

If you do try something different and it works better please let us know about it. I am all about improving things.

 

[08FJR4ME]

My wife's unit has died twice both on long trips 2 years apart. Both times going to EOM. So it really sucked big time. The first time I sent it back and it was fixed. Now out of warranty. Now I am down to one headset.

F-em, Done with the G4's

Dave

 

[Warpdrv]

Just got the Sena 20s pair for the woman and I, she just rides pillion..... Getting a problematic unit out of the box was sad, but after a phone call with a technician, we had the issue quickly resolved with a "Factory Reset"

The software on the 20s has a setting where you can adjust the "Vox" (microphone) sensitivity - but it seemed for us to be pretty good out of the box...

Comms, sharing music, GPS directions, and phone calls are all I wanted it for really.... For that it works really well...
One thing I noticed when we first got them up and running was that music sharing without that antennas up was very choppy, even with us on top of each other on the bike - weird... Yesterday I put the foam speaker spacers in the helmet to get the speakers closer to the ears and it was a great improvement - I have to say I might not need to get custom ear plugs just yet.....

I'm very happy with the Sena 20s's

 

[manglegrat]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Bust-a-cap - I've browsed some threads on ADVRider and here and read about some bugs, but I've read plenty of bitching about Cardo sets as well (not just 08FJR4ME's comment).

All I really need them for is the intercom function - never bothered pairing with the GPS or phone, or listening to music. I just really need to be able to hear her voice!

sath182 - We'll be riding with the antennas up today for sure, which should help with range. The volume issue is definitely my biggest bugbear.

Refdish Hunter - I hated the VOX option on the G4s. It never switched on no matter the sensitivity setting until I shouted, then it took a just-too-long period to reconnect, then always seemed to disconnect halfway through a sentence. What a PITA. When I went always-on that spared some of the frustration but just seems like another workaround for something that should just work.

08FJR4ME - Sorry to hear you've had a much worse time of it than us! We've had connection problems, but never had them actually die on us - unlike the BlueAnt ones we had before, which both expired in the middle of a road-trip and left us buying the G4s in Vancouver...

Warpdrv - Thanks for the feedback on your 20S's. Custom moulded earplugs are something we were going to look into over the winter, but won't really be able to test until the NZ trip (they might be helpful on the 14hr flight as well!). I hear they don't always block as much outright sound as good foam ones, but if they are ones that come with filters it can be better as it lets through the frequencies you want.

The riding season is getting short here in Calgary, so testing opportunities are running out. I'm going to keep reading up on the Sena 20S's as the firmware evolves over the next few months and see where it goes. The cheapest I can see them going for in Canada right now is about $500 on sale at baysideperformance.ca - seems like a decent price for Canuckistan, but it's a bit high for an experiment that might not make any difference at all...

 

[jeallenjr]

I sent mine to a very nice lady named JetGrl from another forum that did a mod to mine. Now I can either use the speakers or unplug them and plug in my earphones which I also use as earplugs. They work great. You can contact her at [email protected] to find out what she is charging now to do them or if she still is. She did a great job on both of mine. I can't figure out how to put the link in here for the site. Google Cardo Scala G-4 Ear Bud modification. You might even do it yourself without sending to her. I didn't want to mess with it.

 

[jeallenjr]

Looking further into this you can purchase new Audio and Microphone kits from Scala (59.95). if you don't want to do the mod.

 

[manglegrat]

Looking further into this you can purchase new Audio and Microphone kits from Scala (59.95). if you don't want to do the mod.

Yeah, I read those threads, too. I bought the G9 cradles and we tried the units with our in-ear earbuds but they wouldn't stay in our ears when we put the helmets on, either by being knocked directly out by the liner, or being pulled out by the liner dragging on the cord. Even when I got the helmet on OK, the slightest pressure on the cord would knock them out of alignment and render them useless.

We didn't want to have to tape up our ears or stick a bandaid over them every ride to keep the earbuds in, so we gave up on that - a failed $120+ experiment. But hey, we have spare cradles for our spare full-face helmets if we ever need 'em.

I even bought some Shure SE215K earbuds that are supposed to stay inside the cup of your ear and the cord wraps round the top of your ear out the way of the helmet, but those didn't fit my ears at all and the cord interfered with my glasses, so I returned them. Shame, as I know I can get custom moulded sleeves for them locally, so they would've been great if they hadn't been so big & awkward in my ear. At least I got my money back for those...

I know the 20S units also have an earbud out, but unless I can find *super* low-profile in-ear earbuds that don't move inside the helmet when putting it on or during normal head movement, our experience with the G9 cradle experiment would just be repeated.

In our case, I don't think the issue is the output volume level, it seems to be the input volume level.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I have to ask this, don't take it as an insult. Please.

1. Do you still have that annoying foam rubber cover over the microphone? We made the mistake of removing ours and the sound quality went to shit.

2. Is the microphone RIGHT IN FRONT OF her mouth? I know the Shoei Neotec has lots of room in the chinbar area and it is natural to get the mic where it does not touch/rub/irritate. Get it too far away and things go South.

I will be honest, I have gotten my money's worth out of the Cardo G4 but it is not perfect. I must have told Pop a thousand times, "Move the microphone around, you sound like an adult on a Charlie Brown TV show..."

 

[manglegrat]

I have to ask this, don't take it as an insult. Please.
1. Do you still have that annoying foam rubber cover over the microphone? We made the mistake of removing ours and the sound quality went to shit.

2. Is the microphone RIGHT IN FRONT OF her mouth? I know the Shoei Neotec has lots of room in the chinbar area and it is natural to get the mic where it does not touch/rub/irritate. Get it too far away and things go South.

I will be honest, I have gotten my money's worth out of the Cardo G4 but it is not perfect. I must have told Pop a thousand times, "Move the microphone around, you sound like an adult on a Charlie Brown TV show..."

No insult taken!

Yes, the foam covers are still on both the original G4 boom mics and the newer G9 ones. The G4 ones are a bit rubbed-up from the years of use.

We usually have the booms positioned so they're just touching our lips. She's told me on a number of occasions when I've asked her where the mic is that it's damn near inside her mouth!

In normal circumstances I can't say I've ever thought her voice was particularly quiet, so why the G4 is being so picky is beyond me.

We bought them on our trip to Tofino in 2010, so we've had a few years out of them, and I guess you could say they've fully paid off the investment by now...

 

[Redfish Hunter]

When the G4 is working, it is great. But, this is the only bike to bike comm system we ever had. I won't get into how much the comm system has improved my rides with Dear Old Dad, you probably understand all that already.

I disabled the Bluetooth to phone and Bluetooth to GPS functions early in the game. That just interfered with the primary purpose, which was to be able to communicate with Pop. I have often considered an upgrade but the darn things just keep working. I know there has to be better stuff out there.

Good luck.

 

[TomInPA]

Just thought I'd throw uClear HBC220 into the mix. I'm really happy with mine. I have synced passengers as well as bike to bike. It's good clarity and pretty easy setup, and if you get the ear buds, the fidelity is just amazing. I just got back from EOM today, and was able to setup other riders with a second unit I have, and on the trip back was in touch with phone calls, great music on MP3, Pandora and the iPhone through a Zumo GPS. I was able to sync with another rider with a Sena headset, but failed to sync with a Bilt unit.

The passenger can share your music and hear GPS directions with uClear, or sync to their own phone in addition to intercom function.

 

[fleetfoot]

Do you have the latest software update from Cardo?

 

[manglegrat]

Do you have the latest software update from Cardo?

Yeah, I check every few months. I checked before our Portland trip in July, then again recently when I went back in to them on my PC to check the settings. I don't think there's been a new firmware update for a while.

 

[manglegrat]

Just thought I'd throw uClear HBC220 into the mix. I'm really happy with mine. I have synced passengers as well as bike to bike. It's good clarity and pretty easy setup, and if you get the ear buds, the fidelity is just amazing. I just got back from EOM today, and was able to setup other riders with a second unit I have, and on the trip back was in touch with phone calls, great music on MP3, Pandora and the iPhone through a Zumo GPS. I was able to sync with another rider with a Sena headset, but failed to sync with a Bilt unit.
The passenger can share your music and hear GPS directions with uClear, or sync to their own phone in addition to intercom function.

I've looked into the uClear kits briefly, but the boomless mic thing kinda puts me off - especially as we've had so many issues with ones with booms! If I can get over that kneejerk reaction thery might be worth considering. More research required... Thanks!

No matter what units we have, I think the earbud situation I described earlier will be the same. It's an input volume level problem, not an output one.

 

[08FJR4ME]

GPS, Phone, Music all work fine for me, FM radio is useless. I bought these units to be able to talk back and forth. On both major trips to EOM my wifes unit failed both times. That totaly sucks. The service was good on repair but why does her unit keep failing? For the money you would think these things would last longer. Her unit gets a lot less use than mine has.

Go figure?

Dave

 

[Warpdrv]

The boomless mic on the Sena's is just fine - no issues what so ever, being able to adjust the mic sensitivity is a great thing but the VOX on the Sena's works as it should.... Both the woman and I run the Shoei GT-Air's and the mic is by no means right in front of our mouths but there has not been one issue with them working properly at all.... Plus the noise suppression is fantastic - a buddy called me and we talked for about 20 mins before I asked him how the sound clarity was, he didn't have any clue why i would ask that question, then I told him I was riding the whole time we were talking, he said BS, until I revved my engine up and honked my horn - he was blown away by the sound quality, clear as a bell..... that made me very happy...

In fact, they are plenty to sensitive that when were sharing music if she or I start to sing to our favorite songs - it will cut out the music every time for COMMS - so we have started to grow a bit more accustomed to not singing rather then adjusting the sensitivity of the VOX. That doesn't stop us from dancing though....

Perhaps it was just the Scala units that had the issues with the mic, since I'm certainly not seeing it as an issue at all FWIW...

I held off for a long time before purchasing any comms units as i didn't have anyone really to talk to, so it was no big, plus the features of sharing music if I did have someone on the back was pretty important to me and since they finally got that working right it was for me a game changer..... With the success of the Sena 10's but small nit piks from people I chose to hold off, but after reports came in on the 20s's mostly good I figured I'd give it a shot.... Both my woman and I are very happy I did get comms... its nice to be able to chat on things from time to time....