I am hoping she misheard.

[danh600]

Wife and I were out for a ride this weekend. We stop at a little country diner to have a late breakfast. We are wearing our mesh gear and carrying helmets.

The table next to us spoke and I guess seeing our gear get's them talking among themselves about motorcycling. I get the impression one of them has a bike. The other are infrequent riders or beginners. They start discussing the MSF class.

Then one of the ladies tells everyone that if you are coming up to a cross road watch the wheels of the cars. If the wheels are rolling the car is moving. I do remember the MSF guy saying the same thing in my class. Then she says she was taught to point at them if they keep rolling!

Really? Take your hand away from covering the brake to point at a driver that doesn't see you? He didn't see a motorcycle with a headlight or a person coming at him but he is going to see you point?

I cringed but didn't say anything. I have learned that people really don't like unasked for advice. I also got the impression she didn't actually ride so I didn't think there was any real danger.

Hopefully she misheard and there is not some rogue MSF instructor actually teaching this.

 

[BakerBoy]

Would have to agree... pointing at the apparently-unaware driver provides nothing for the rider. Worse, it is distraction and delays reaction time when you need to brake or maneuver.

The "watch the wheels" trick is really helpful. You can get a sense of the driver's intent by watching the change in wheel rotation speed--but always be prepared and have a way out.

 

[danh600]

Yea, watching the wheels is definitely a good tool.

She made a pointing motion with her finger and hand. So she was actually talking about pointing.

I wonder if what was actually being taught was to point THE BIKE at a car momentarily so the headlight hits them straight one?

 

[Pterodactyl]

She neglected the part about having an M1911A1 in her hand while pointing. That may not solve the problem, but it will make the outcome much more exciting for all involved,

 

[steveoreno]

She neglected the part about having an M1911A1 in her hand while pointing. That may not solve the problem, but it will make the outcome much more exciting for all involved,

That's where having cruise control is handy!

 

[Old Guy]

She could point with her left hand thereby leaving both brakes covered.

OK. Just kidding.

I taught MSF classes for several years, and sometimes I'd get paired with another instructor that'd impart bits of personal wisdom not in the curriculum, and some of those bits were incredibly wrong. One guy said one day "We're required to teach you how safe helmets are, but if you want my personal opinion get with me after class."

I suspect danh600 guessed right. I've heard it suggested to go straight toward the vehicle then steer away. The light may get their attention, or the lateral motion as you steer away may.

I've also had graduates of the beginner's class tell me that they were taught in class to cover the clutch at all times and never cover the front brake. And they insist this is what they were taught. That's either a failure on the student's part to listen or a failure on the instructor's part to make himself perfectly clear.

 

[rushes]

Don't believe everything you overhear at little country diners.

My words of wisdom for the day...

 

[Old Guy]

Don't believe everything you overhear at little country diners.
My words of wisdom for the day...

Well darn -- who'd a knew?

 

[BakerBoy]

...
I've also had graduates of the beginner's class tell me that they were taught in class to cover the clutch at all times and never cover the front brake. And they insist this is what they were taught. That's either a failure on the student's part to listen or a failure on the instructor's part to make himself perfectly clear.

Sadly... In the 80's, I was required to take a course on an Air Force base in order to be allowed to ride my motersickle on and off the base, where my employer was stationed.

In that course, the instructor (a member of the base MP; well armed, and in his 20's) got all commando if he didn't see my hand over the clutch and all my fingers gripping the throttle tube. His rationale was something to the effect that 'that gives you stability, avoids the delay when you need to downshift and quickly get out of the way', and 'don't lose grip on the throttle with your fingers to cover a brake--you have a foot already covering a brake'.

I had to comply [during the course] as he was an Air Force official motersickle trainer, I was a civilian who was not allowed to debate his sovereignty, and I needed his sign-off to ride on the base. I have no idea his qualifications or training.

 

[Old Guy]

...

I've also had graduates of the beginner's class tell me that they were taught in class to cover the clutch at all times and never cover the front brake. And they insist this is what they were taught. That's either a failure on the student's part to listen or a failure on the instructor's part to make himself perfectly clear.

Sadly... In the 80's, I was required to take a course on an Air Force base in order to be allowed to ride my motersickle on and off the base, where my employer was stationed.

In that course, the instructor (a member of the base MP; well armed, and in his 20's) got all commando if he didn't see my hand over the clutch and all my fingers gripping the throttle tube. His rationale was something to the effect that 'that gives you stability, avoids the delay when you need to downshift and quickly get out of the way', and 'don't lose grip on the throttle with your fingers to cover a brake--you have a foot already covering a brake'.

I had to comply [during the course] as he was an Air Force official motersickle trainer, I was a civilian who was not allowed to debate his sovereignty, and I needed his sign-off to ride on the base. I have no idea his qualifications or training.

We required it for the first few hours of range practice for beginners because if they panicked and grabbed hold tight, they'd likely pull the clutch if it was already covered. And they wouldn't grab the brake locking it at 10 mph while toodling around in low gear if it wasn't covered. As the students progressed, I back off of it. Your instructor seems to have completely missed the point.

I explained this in class and emphasized that covering the brakes as necessary in traffic was a very good thing and sometimes covering the clutch was nice.

I sent the following to the MSF a few months back.

I taught MSF courses from 1980 through 1995, when I retired for health reasons. I’m obviously out of date, but I feel many instructors are missing a key point in brake use.
Google “MSF covering the front brake”, and you’ll find page after page of forum posts where the people insist they were taught by the MSF never to cover the front brake. I’ve talked to many beginners who insist they were taught that in class. I’ve downloaded a “BRC Handbook” and find the request not to cover it the first day of class, and I understand that. I find it hard to believe that instructors interpret this to mean the front brake should never be covered, but the students sure seem to think they do.

I know it’s covered and suggested in the ERC Rider Classroom cards , yet I’ve talked to people who took the ERC and insist the instructors told them they shouldn't.

When I taught, I explained to the students why I didn’t want them to cover it the first day of range exercises, but I emphasized in class that it was an important safety technique on the street to reduce reaction times.

I’d like to suggest that the BRC materials make this clear for future editions. And I’d like to suggest that chief instructors make doubly sure that their instructors don’t teach that brakes should never be covered.

I received the following reply.

You bring up a good point. In fact, we're preparing the BRC 2014 update now, and the new materials make clear that while the front brake shouldn't be covered during training, it is a useful technique for riders with some experience, to reduce brake application time in certain situations.

 

[bluesdog]

That right hand index finger pointing technique only works on deer. It's magic, I tell ya!

 

[HotRodZilla]

No matter what anyone hears in a diner, never forget that people are idiots!

 

[rbentnail]

No matter what anyone hears in a diner, never forget that people are idiots!

Not everyone is an idiot. Some people are morons. Some people are simpletons. And there's engineers, in a world all their own, unencumbered by the realities of real life. Then there's the sheriff's department where SWMBO works,

"The Randolph County Sheriff’s Office confirmed Wednesday morning that Lt. Sandra Reid has officially resigned from the department. She is the wife of Sheriff Maynard Reid.

Sandra Reid, 57, 1820 Rocky Lane, Asheboro, was cited on Dec. 11 for misdemeanor larceny by substitution of price at Belk at Four Seasons Town Centre in Greensboro. Officials in Greensboro said she was also banned from all Belk stores by the company."

- See more at: https://courier-tribune.com/news/local/sandra-reid-resigns-sheriff-s-office#sthash.5RAPH5wI.dpuf

 

[beemerdons]

That right hand index finger pointing technique only works on deer. It's magic, I tell ya!

silver spirit that magic index finger pointing technique also works on elk, I saw Greg "SkooterG" Marbach stop this bull elk in his tracks from charging his FJR! JSNS, es Verdad ese!

 

[beemerdons]

No matter what anyone hears in a diner, never forget that people are idiots!

Truer words were never spoken, last time that Papa Chuy Viejo ate in a diner I was with AJ! jes' sayin' and nuff said, BS!