Lean Mixtures And Ticking

[Tom of VA]

I recently read an article connecting reduced exhaust-valve/valve-guide life in small aviation engines to utilizing ultra lean fuel mixtures. As I read around this forum looking ways to richen up my FJR and get rid of the lean surge (tried the BJM, will prob now try PCIII) I was wondering if anyone has connected the ticking caused by valve guide wear to the higher exhaust temps caused by the leanness of the factory fuel delivery. Has anyone had a ticking isssue with a FJR that a PCIII installed early in it's life? "Surge now, tick later"? I guess I'm trying to sell myself on spending the $270 for the PCIII.

 

[Warchild]

Has anyone had a ticking isssue with a FJR that a PCIII installed early in it's life?

Yes, some have. A good number have, in fact.

Including myself, on my first FJR.

 

[BobbyBlue]

Dale are ALL these bikes destined to tick, some much later than others. Is this just a design flaw or more like manufacturing issues. As a former process engineer for TI, we would have changed whatever to make it work. Is this platform doomed? I love my bike, but I need reliability as I'm racking up 12-15K of city miles. Just curious about your learned opinion now that we are approaching its 4th year in the US. Thanks in advance.

Bobby

 

[BobbyBlue]

PS, I followed your excellent documentation of Timex last year, Is it still 1 of 7?

 

[Tom of VA]

Ok,

Maybe it was wishful thinking. I thought if the richer fuel may extend valve life I'd be happier about having to spend more cash on new bike just to get it to run right. I tried the BJM (it was worked just as stated on FJRtech.com), but I think I'm gona need to go the PCIII route. Engine just doesn't feel right at low Rs. Does anyone know if the CO should be returned to stock setting before adding the PCIII?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Bounce]

As has been reported in the past, it seems random. Those that tick do so. Those that don't don't. Not all tick.

Perhaps it's a result of a design that left little margin for assembly tollerances. Over engineering a design costs money. Perhaps the push to design "no more than needed" was shaved too thin? At this point the data that is available doesn't support that or any other conclusion as it's too random.

There appear to be enough failures for Yamaha to take notice. According to many they have. According to some others, they haven't. This may really be a case where the Internet is getting the word out, so that it can't be ignored. But in total numbers is may be a "cusp" issue that is right at the point where it's not a design flaw, but some combination of assembly tollerances that push those specific engines outside of that range.

So, in conclusion, a very definite maybe. :boss:

It may be that someone gets fed up but likes the model so much that they spec out custom valve guides that survivie the environment and then publish their process.

 

[Toolman]

I don't post alot but I do followed these forums all the time. I don't think using a PCIII has caused more or less Tickers. I also think if you add a PCIII it still depends on how rich/lean you personaly set it. Another words you could still have it very lean depending on the map you use. I have a PCIII on my '03 and I think it was worth the money because it elimanated my off idle stumble. YMMV. Ron

 

[BobbyBlue]

Thanks Bounce, I'll just ride the sucka !

Bobby

 

[Ramblin Man]

I spec'd the new guides from Kaiten, but they were going to be very expensive and require a group buy to have them made so I didn't bother to post up about them at the time but I'll take that opportunity now, if I can hijack the thread for a moment.

The cost was going to be somewhere around 400 dollars a set, with a minimum 25 set run if I recall correctly. I just tried to find the email from Todd Ishimaru at Kaiten but I must have deleted them because I can't find any from him. But I'm sure that number is close because I remember saying to myslef "hell thats ten thousand dollars!".

Everyone was still reeling from the wilbers and spiegeler group buys so then was not the time.

Anyway there were other questions that sort of went unanswered. The thing that makes Kaiten (Black Diamond) guides so great, according to their web site, is their finnishing process of the inside of the guide surface. Their process gets it extra extra extra smooth for better lubricity, but an FJR's guides are pressed in and then reamed to tollerence. How to preserve the guides surface finish after a post installation reaming was a question that went unanswered. What I was advised to do was to have a shop that specialized in Yamaha heads do the work.

Where's the fun in that?

Anyway, sorry for the hold up. I still have three more sets of valve/guide pairs to send out. I haven't been in any hurry because, after all, only 40 bikes in the whole world have had this problem and they have already been fixed. Right?

OK, back tou your regulary scheduled topic.

 

[Warchild]

Dale are ALL these bikes destined to tick, some much later than others. Is this just a design flaw or more like manufacturing issues......  Is this platform doomed?

No, not all are destined to develop the Tick, nor do I think the platform is doomed. However, for those that have had/are having to deal with a ticking FJR, the emotional rollercoaster is as bad as you'll ever experience. Particularly for those that are extremely passionate about this platform.... this time last year, I was ready to start killing someone. Anyone. :angry:

We have researched and researched and researched this subject to death over the past two years (even longer for some), and the only consistant trend is that there are no real discernable trends. It's almost like it's an issue of Karma.... either you get a ticker, or you don't. No amount of preventative measures, break-in procedures, oil use, riding environment, riding style, etc, etc, etc, seems to make any difference. Tickers are all over the map with different answers to all the above.

There is some amount of vague statistical (yet still anecdotal) evidence that may suggest heat as a prominate contributing factor, yet the fact remains, only a small percentage of FJRs develop ticking, while the vast majority do not. Of course, if you are in that "small percentage", this is very little comfort.

I would say that of the two options, I would lean more toward manufacturing issues, vice a outright design flaw (per say). If it was wholly a design issue, I think we'd see a lot more tickers than we have to date.

PS, I followed your excellent documentation of Timex last year, Is it still 1 of 7?

It's been a year since that guessimate; nowadays, I believe I would knock it back down to something on the order of 7%, more or less. (mind you, 7% is still a helleva lot of tickers). There doesn't seem to be quite as many tickers in the class of '05, but it's possible that this class just hasn't accumulated enough mileage yet to have developed the Tick. That having been said, there are indeed a number of threads about '05 Tickers; Yamaha obviously doesn't quite have a complete handle on this unfortunate situation yet.

 

[wyowags]

I'm jumpin' in,

I've been keeping up on the ticking issue for about two and a half years or so. I debated hard on whether or not to go with the FJR because of this. I love this bike and my '05' came in at the end of May. I figured with my luck, I'd end up with a ticker anyway and it seemed Yamaha was fixing them. Albeit, with some push. Thanks Warchild. Well, I've got a little over 2100 miles and I swear I'm hearing a cycling ticking noise from the left side between 2800 and 3200 rpm's. So I guess it may be here. I live at an altitude of 6200' and rarely get more than a thousand ft. below that. Everything runs rich up here unless you do something about it. So I don't know if that would have anything to do with the tick or not. I'm not that saavy in that department. I would like to know if there is anyone in the area that has heard a ticker before, listen to mine and see what they think though. I'm in Cheyenne, WY. I know my dealer has never dealt with this before also.

 

[BobbyBlue]

Thanks Warchild. Your continued interest and support of this issue and the platform in general is so appreciated ! We are absolutely blessed to have you in our corner. I love my FJR and one of the reasons is these boards but especially your passion. Thank you again for sharing this with us all.

Bobby