Letter of appreciation to Yamaha

[Medium Al]

I happen to believe this problem never would have been addressed let alone fixed if it weren't for memebrs of this forum giving them hell AND debugging the problem for them.

This does a lot to characterize your views. Do you really think this would not have been addressed? Based on what? You feel like giving someone hell is a good thing? Is that how you respond to everything that is less than ideal in your life? I'd hate to see what your blood pressure numbers are. You honestly feel like you're in part responsible for de-bugging this? What information did you provide in terms of the fix? Did you suggest that a particular circuit or logic be applied to the software? Are you a qualified mechanic AND software engineer?

Wow. My point is that you shouldn't be patting yourself on the back so much. I'm with you on not writing a letter, but man, I'd sure be curious to see how you handle other problems and inconveniences in your life.

If they're like any other CR staff, they probably are like mushrooms (kept in the dark, and fed $hit all day). The're probably hired through some agency and wouldn't know any more about a specific model / year / problem than any other schmoe on the street. I'd guess that they're trained to some extent, but come on, who could afford a full staff of highly trained techs to answer calls on ALL product lines every day? What tech would do it?

All that off my chest, I go back to my earlier comment that the best way to show any appreciation would be to back off the heat a little and let them do their jobs. I'm sure the Forum is a great source of info at some level, but a bunch of riders speculating on what they think is wrong, and ranting to everyone that will listen that their toy is broken, well, that doesn't carry much weight with me, and I'm sure that a big company like Yamaha would rather listen to good sense as opposed to maniacle ravings, too.

No one NEEDS to ride a motorcycle. It's a convenient, economical, and fun way to get around, but in reality, it's a toy. Keep that in mind when prioritizing your hate.

Wow, TruWrecks, I respect your contribution to resolving this issue but what's up with the personal attacks? You don't know me and apparently never will. Is this how you respond to everyone you disagree with? Am I pissed off about this problem and how it was handled? Yes. Am I attacking anyone here? No, not even you. As to my contribution this issue, see the following for an example:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...c=23107&hl=

Maybe not a big deal but at the time no one, including Yamaha, could duplicate the problem reliably. Oh, and I spent close to 20 years in the digital controls industry, mostly mlitary research for DARPA. So yeah I've programmed more than a few controllers.

Edit: Sorry, I thought this was TruWrecks, apologies to him. Huck Fonda on the other hand, can go Yuck Forself.

 

[Medium Al]

It is not the customer's responsibility to parse statements made on behalf of Yamaha into categories of tech support banter, customer relations fabrications, dealer blow-offs, service managers posting on this board, and so forth. If there is a Yamaha sign hanging from the building, or Yamaha pays their salary directly or indirectly, it is official as far as I am concerned.

So, if you posted something on this forum would be the official word of the forum? Of course not. Specious analogy.

And your standard for "official" seems extremely loose. I thought as much, but just wanted to point it out.

And so it's only official if it shows up on Yamaha's special double secret registered TSB stationary? I thought so.

Do you work for Yamaha? Sounds like it. It was not a specious analogy, if I go to a dealer and the dealer contacts Yamaha and he tells me Yamaha's position is so and so, that is Yamaha's official position as far as I am concerned. If I call customer relations and customer relations tells me such and such is Yamaha's official position, that is Yamaha's official position as far as I am concerned. If a Yamaha service manager posts on this board and says Yamaha's postion is so and so, then that is Yamaha's official position as far as I am concerned. What else am I supposed to infer? Any manner of deniable nonsense can be spun out by a company if its representatives aren't held accountable for what they say.

 

[twowheelnut]

Jebus H. Crispies! Don't write the fuckin' letter, then! Just STFU and hate Yamaha for making the bike, dickin' up the ECU and then fixing the thing. Gawd, this whole issue has turned into a turgid bucket of fuck.

 

[Ignacio]

And so it's only official if it shows up on Yamaha's special double secret registered TSB stationary? I thought so.
Do you work for Yamaha? Sounds like it. It was not a specious analogy, if I go to a dealer and the dealer contacts Yamaha and he tells me Yamaha's position is so and so, that is Yamaha's official position as far as I am concerned. If I call customer relations and customer relations tells me such and such is Yamaha's official position, that is Yamaha's official position as far as I am concerned. If a Yamaha service manager posts on this board and says Yamaha's postion is so and so, then that is Yamaha's official position as far as I am concerned. What else am I supposed to infer? Any manner of deniable nonsense can be spun out by a company if its representatives aren't held accountable for what they say.

Yes, it's official when something is verifiable and not third hand heresay. Your comparison that TSB stationary is double-secret when it's actually just copyrighted is yet another one of your specious claims.

And, no I don't work for Yamaha.

Feel free to share names, dates, and specific quotes so we all can evaluate the veracity of your claims. Otherwise it just seems libelous rant to me.

C'mon, let the sunshine in!

 

[Medium Al]

Gawd, this whole issue has turned into a turgid bucket of fuck.

I'm with you on that sentiment.

And so it's only official if it shows up on Yamaha's special double secret registered TSB stationary? I thought so.Do you work for Yamaha? Sounds like it. It was not a specious analogy, if I go to a dealer and the dealer contacts Yamaha and he tells me Yamaha's position is so and so, that is Yamaha's official position as far as I am concerned. If I call customer relations and customer relations tells me such and such is Yamaha's official position, that is Yamaha's official position as far as I am concerned. If a Yamaha service manager posts on this board and says Yamaha's postion is so and so, then that is Yamaha's official position as far as I am concerned. What else am I supposed to infer? Any manner of deniable nonsense can be spun out by a company if its representatives aren't held accountable for what they say.

Yes, it's official when something is verifiable and not third hand heresay. Your comparison that TSB stationary is double-secret when it's actually just copyrighted is yet another one of your specious claims.And, no I don't work for Yamaha.Feel free to share names, dates, and specific quotes so we all can evaluate the veracity of your claims. Otherwise it just seems libelous rant to me.C'mon, let the sunshine in!

Dude, what is your problem? You want to write a letter, write one. I don't want to and I said so. Get over it.

 

[Huck Fonda]

No one NEEDS to ride a motorcycle. It's a convenient, economical, and fun way to get around, but in reality, it's a toy.

I was with you all the way until these last two sentences, Huck.

There are indeed some folks that NEED to ride. I am one of them.

It may be a toy to some folks, but definitely not a toy to others. For example, I haven't owned a car for over a decade now.... the bike is a necessity.

I was just rying to put in perspective. I'm like you really. If I couldn't ride, you'd find me in a padded room probably playing handball with my own shit.

The road is my church...

 

[Huck Fonda]

Wow, TruWrecks, I respect your contribution to resolving this issue but what's up with the personal attacks? You don't know me and apparently never will. Is this how you respond to everyone you disagree with? Am I pissed off about this problem and how it was handled? Yes. Am I attacking anyone here? No, not even you. As to my contribution this issue, see the following for an example:
https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...c=23107&hl=

Maybe not a big deal but at the time no one, including Yamaha, could duplicate the problem reliably. Oh, and I spent close to 20 years in the digital controls industry, mostly mlitary research for DARPA. So yeah I've programmed more than a few controllers.

Edit: Sorry, I thought this was TruWrecks, apologies to him. Huck Fonda on the other hand, can go Yuck Forself.

First off, I guess I should apologize for knot knowing about your background, but SO WHAT! My point was that unless you provided a suggested resolution, all you did was raise heat. Anyone can do that.

As far as personal attacks, I'm just amazed that anyone that has a bike as good as an FJR can be so hot under the collar. Sure, the communication system at brand Y could use some improvement, but again, how do you deal with the (stereotypical) clowns at DMV? Stand up on your chair and demand that they get smarter and more pleasant? If you hate the bike / brand / dealer so much, get something else. It's called a free market brother.

I remember the feeling of throwing someone out of a shop I worked at once. This prick was such an asshat that I just didn't want his business. Sounds like you'd be better off on another bike, and the staff at Yamaha would be better off without you on their phones raging like you apparently can.

Best of luck to you on finding a better machine and brand to work with. I hope you end up with the bike that you deserve.

Ride safe.

 

[murf]

For a little perspective, it took Honda about 3 years to address their EFI/ECU changes on the GL1800 Wing and the whole time they refused to talk to anyone about what was going on.
Kudos to Yamaha!

It also took Honda way too long to acknowledge the problem with the cracking of the welds in the frame cross member on the 1800. If it hadn't been for one certain person to collect all the data and contact the NHTSA, Honda would still be in denial.

 

[Windjammer]

LET THE SUN SHINE IN

MAKE IT WITH A GRIN

OPEN UP YOUR HEART

AND LET THE SUN SHINE IN

Since that last post about the sun shining in, I can't get this fucking song out of my head. Now it's in yours too!! :clapping:

 

[Medium Al]

First off, I guess I should apologize for knot knowing about your background, but SO WHAT! My point was that unless you provided a suggested resolution, all you did was raise heat. Anyone can do that.
As far as personal attacks, I'm just amazed that anyone that has a bike as good as an FJR can be so hot under the collar. Sure, the communication system at brand Y could use some improvement, but again, how do you deal with the (stereotypical) clowns at DMV? Stand up on your chair and demand that they get smarter and more pleasant? If you hate the bike / brand / dealer so much, get something else. It's called a free market brother.

I remember the feeling of throwing someone out of a shop I worked at once. This prick was such an asshat that I just didn't want his business. Sounds like you'd be better off on another bike, and the staff at Yamaha would be better off without you on their phones raging like you apparently can.

Best of luck to you on finding a better machine and brand to work with. I hope you end up with the bike that you deserve.

Ride safe.

No harm no foul, Huck. By the way, I was the guy who turned us loose on Steve Hamilton at Yamaha Customer Relations (I published his name and number here and urged others to call him), I have thanked him profusely for his help to me and to all of us, and apologized to him for the 100+ calls he got as a result. I have no problem thanking people who deserve it. I don't yell at people. I do point out when people are being idiots or irresponsible. Or perhaps a little irrational, as in the case of this letter thing. Stockholm Syndrome comes to mind.

And I don't necessarily want a new bike, I want the bike I paid 12.6K cash for to work right. And finally, I do ALL of my riding between 5000 and 12000 ft. elevation This problem showed up literally on my first ride, and is a problem on every single ride I take. I rode it again today, same problems. I live in the mountains, obvisouly.

 

[Huck Fonda]

LET THE SUN SHINE INMAKE IT WITH A GRIN

OPEN UP YOUR HEART

AND LET THE SUN SHINE IN

Since that last post about the sun shining in, I can't get this fucking song out of my head. Now it's in yours too!! :clapping:

DOH!! That's just plain mean!

 

[Huck Fonda]

I was the guy who turned us loose on Steve Hamilton at Yamaha Customer Relations (I published his name and number here and urged others to call him...

I guess that's the part I still don't get. I get that you had a driveability problem, and I get that the dealer's staff is maybe under qualified or unmotivated to find your problem, but 100 calls?

Now calls from 100 different people would surely have a much more profound effect than one guy calling all the time. There's only so many bikes out there. If one guy complains a hundred times, that's still only 1. And while an apology to Steve is nice, do you really think that erases hours and hours of negativity?

I posted somewhere else that the staff in Cypress is probably up against quite a hurdle. They can have all the best itentions in the world, but at the end of the day it isn't their company. They're just here to help sell and support the Japanese product. It's probably their procedures and processes that end up taking up most of the time in getting things fixed.

You know how engineers can be, imagine Japanese engineers

I don't know how they run thing, and that's yet another reason I'm willing to cut them a little more slack than you will. What I do know first hand is how Yamaha was to work with from a dealer tech viewpoint.

Call Honda - they don't know, check the blatantly obvious

Call Suzuki - talk to a guy about 35% of the time and hope someone calls back before you fix iton your own

Sea-Doo - leave a mesage and get back to work, they're not calling

Call Yamaha - you better have already checked it all and have your numbers handy, and they'd spend some time working with you

That's been my experience...

 

[Medium Al]

I was the guy who turned us loose on Steve Hamilton at Yamaha Customer Relations (I published his name and number here and urged others to call him...

I guess that's the part I still don't get. I get that you had a driveability problem, and I get that the dealer's staff is maybe under qualified or unmotivated to find your problem, but 100 calls?

You know Huck you really have to stop making assumptions. It is almost as if you are trying to interpret my comments in the worst possible light regardless of the facts. I did not call him 100 times, 100 people called him from this board as a result of my posting his name and number here (according to him). I called him 3 times, once to tell him Yamaha needs to put out a coherent "official" repsonse to this issue because the boards were getting out of control and we were getting too many conflicting stories. I posted that repsonse here when I got it. Called next to clarify what that response was (posted results here again), and finally to thank him for his help and to apologize for the huge call volume he received due to his contact info being posted up. This last was after Warchild posted up the TSB link and I was able to get my dealer to order the part (finally). I thanked Steve for his role in getting us all to that point. And I also thanked Warchild. And TruWrecks for that matter.

Now, if I were such a bad person with a terrible temper misjudging everything and overreacting as you imply I do or did, I'd be ripping you a new asshole about now. Instead I hope you reflect on your comments and realize how unjustified they have been.

 

[Huck Fonda]

Al,

That's why I put both scenarios in my post. I wasn't sure, but I did infer by your post that you called 100 times.

My apologies.

 

[Medium Al]

Al,
That's why I put both scenarios in my post. I wasn't sure, but I did infer by your post that you called 100 times.

My apologies.

Apology accepted, Huck. Now don't you have a letter to write?

 

[Capt. Bob]

I was the guy who turned us loose on Steve Hamilton at Yamaha Customer Relations (I published his name and number here and urged others to call him...

I guess that's the part I still don't get. I get that you had a driveability problem, and I get that the dealer's staff is maybe under qualified or unmotivated to find your problem, but 100 calls?

Now calls from 100 different people would surely have a much more profound effect than one guy calling all the time.

Did I read MA's post wrong?

I took it to mean that the 100 calls was due to him releasing Steve's contact info.

Sorry, just read last two posts.

 

[Kevin Daly]

WOW!

So I havent followed this or the main thread because i have an 04

But is sounds to me like the problem is either resolved or near resolved.

Anyone who is arguing that Yama did not respond to this rapidly is simply naive. Major companies simply can not respond to ligit issues of this complexity by stoping the production lines and tossing the corporate machine at it. There are groups that deal with these problems and it is highly likely that it took time to replicate the issue relaibly, develop a patch, test the patch and then distribute it.

Furthermore, I have no clue why anyone would think Yama would publicly state that there was a problem before they had a solution in hand. That is ivory tower naive (believe me I work in the ivory tower); its crazy talk. They have a business to run and that is what they will do! Welcome to capitolism! Thank god its not communism, you be tossed in a gulog for smack about "Mother Yamaha" ... and your bike would never get fixed

 

[Warchild]

Gawd, this whole issue has turned into a turgid bucket of fuck.

[SIZE=14pt]Quote of the Week material!!!![/SIZE] :lol:

 

[Medium Al]

Wow, some of you guys are amazing. I find it ironic that only a couple of weeks ago, a large group here was banding together and talking about class action lawsuits and letter writing campaigns to magazines and Yamaha with dire threats about doing something about the surging problem or else. I thought that was a bad way to go and said so at the time. In fact that was my original reason for calling Customer Relations, where by luck of the draw I got handed off to Steve Hamilton. I told Steve in no uncertain terms that things were getting out of control WRT this issue and unless Yamaha wanted a bunch of lawsuits and very bad PR like immediatley they had better come up with a response, and a good one. At that time the "official" line from Steve was grossly inadequate, basically a blow off. I told him in fairly blunt language he had better try again, check with someone who had the authority and direct knowledge to make an official statement regarding what was actually going on, what Yamaha was going to do, and a time line. He got back to me pretty quickly, I posted that here, and within days the TSB came out. Based on his fast response and willingness to actually do something (BTW the ONLY person I have ever dealt with at Yamaha who was willing to do so), I recommended everyone here contact him.

One person here already sued, and successfully (made them buy back his bike and pay his legal expenses), another was suing in CA months ago, I was asked to assist his case and declined because I thought that was the wrong way to go, and still do. I do not know what the resolution of that suit was.

I would say someone who does not have an 06/07 and not been struggling with the problem, who has not read ALL the threads on it, or spent any time trying to debug it, and who has not been dealing with Yamaha factory or dealer personnel directly (for months) over this issue is naive to think they have any legitimate basis to comment. I have spent countless hours on this problem (including reading this forum and others), and couple of thousand miles on the bike trying to figure it out. Because for months it could not even be replicated by the factory, and that was the basis for them denying it even existed. I am not going to formally thank a company who took my money and whose personnel treated me and others like shit during that time. I will and have thanked individuals who were helpful. IMHO the corporate response was inadequate. Oh, yeah, and I still do not have the new ECU.

Now I am really tired of this bickering, my "contribution" to this thread is over. You want to write a letter, fine. Just don't imply the whole forum thinks the way you do, becuase it doesn't. And some of us have real good reasons for feeling that way. That is all I am trying to say. You want to ostracize someone for that position, go right ahead.

 

[Ignacio]

I find it ironic that only a couple of weeks ago, a large group here was banding together and talking about class action lawsuits and letter writing campaigns to magazines and Yamaha with dire threats about doing something about the surging problem or else. I thought that was a bad way to go and said so at the time. In fact that was my original reason for calling Customer Relations, where by luck of the draw I got handed off to Steve Hamilton. I told Steve in no uncertain terms that things were getting out of control WRT this issue and unless Yamaha wanted a bunch of lawsuits and very bad PR like immediatley they had better come up with a response, and a good one. At that time the "official" line from Steve was grossly inadequate, basically a blow off....
Now I am really tired of this bickering, my "contribution" to this thread is over. You want to write a letter, fine. Just don't imply the whole forum thinks the way you do, becuase it doesn't. And some of us have real good reasons for feeling that way. That is all I am trying to say. You want to ostracize someone for that position, go right ahead.

It's your broad generalizations and distortions I feel compelled to pick at MA.

Steve in Customer relations works in Japan at corporate headquarters and can make official statements on behalf of Yamaha? He must be higher up in the corporate food chain than any of us realized.

And I had no idea of the large contingency on this forum that were talking class action lawsuit.....I must have been under the delusion it was like 4 or 5. ...I guess that's subjectively large.

And who exactly implied the whole forum thinks one way? Even before you spoke up I can't think of anybody that thinks the board was in lock-step on this issue.