Oil Level "Growth" Circumvention

[majicmaker]

Wow! Just joined this party. I've spent 15 years going to Jamaica on a regular basis. But, I've never tasted Ganja as good as this guy had before he decided to post. Yah Mon!!

 

[gixxerjasen]

Fortunately nobody got on the SEARCH tangent

Well, now we have a thread on expanding oil...so we will go on a search tangent NEXT time!

 

[RadioHowie]

This morning, I set up an experiment in a totally control environment to duplicate the shifting of both the A and the AE.......What was involved was sitting on a parked bike an mimicking shifting of both models for a 10 second period....The results I found to be astonishing...
I was able to perform 23 shifts manually alternating between up shifting and down shifting on the A model vs 55 shifts i was able to do digitally (hitting the up shift button, then the downshift button on the AE........

Dammit, Iggy...we were both wrong! It was 55 shifts in 10 seconds, not 55 per second.....or per minute. I guess the original post was SO stupid, we both got sidetracked by its very ignorance..

The original post is here: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/11767-the-results-from-my-experiment-are-in/?p=144007

 

[bgross]

When my oil light comes on (to warn of low oil volume) and I don't have time to add oil, I just pull over, turn off the engine, put the bike on the side stand, and wait 2-3 minutes.

Then, leaving the bike on the side stand, I check the oil level in the sight glass. More often than not a miracle occurs: the oil level indicates that the oil light is WRONG.

I believe!

Back on the road...

 

[wheatonFJR]

When my oil light comes on (to warn of low oil volume) and I don't have time to add oil, I just pull over, turn off the engine, put the bike on the side stand, and wait 2-3 minutes.
Then, leaving the bike on the side stand, I check the oil level in the sight glass. More often than not a miracle occurs: the oil level indicates that the oil light is WRONG.

I believe!

Back on the road...

When your bike is on the sidestand, is the oil level at the lower tick mark?

 

[RadioHowie]

The key to correct oil level???

Ignore the stupid site glass....put 4.25 quarts of oil in the sucker, ignore the light and drive the damn thing.

 

[Fred W]

Yeah, 'cause those sight glasses are often wrong. They rely on unreliable stuff like gravity and visible evidence.

 

[RadioHowie]

Fred, I think you missed my point.

People stress too much on what the sight glass indicates, which could be dead wrong on whether the bike's on the sidestand or centerstand, whether the bike has been sitting, or just shut down, etc. The facotry "fill" is 4 quarts, 8 ounces. When someone fills their bike with 4.25 quarts, THAT is the correct amount of oil, not some arbitrary level indicated by a peep-hole in the engine block.

 

[Fred W]

That would be true if we all drained exactly the same amount of oil from the bikes. But as you know, there is still almost a quart of old oil left when you do an oil and filter change. Some folks will let it drain longer than others, and so leave more or less in the engine.

People that are following the manufacturers specifications don't do a filter change on every oil change, only every other. I myself have been known to leave a quality oil filter in there for a second oil change. Why not?

Plus, how accurate are you going to be when measuring that extra cup of oil? Technically the amount of oil for a change with new filter is one gallon (4 quarts) plus 7.36 oz.. What if you have one of the longer oil filters on there? It may require a few more oz.

I know that personally, I have never measured it. I just fill it until it is at the upper mark in the sight glass while on the center stand. Start the engine and let it run for a bit to fill the filter (if new). Then shut it off and wait until it settles before topping it up to the upper mark again in the sight glass.

I don't see how the sight glass can possibly be considered ambiguous. But either way, it just isn't worth stressing over.

 

[Makuna]

That would be true if we all drained exactly the same amount of oil from the bikes. But as you know, there is still almost a quart of old oil left when you do an oil and filter change. Some folks will let it drain longer than others, and so leave more or less in the engine.
People that are following the manufacturers specifications don't do a filter change on every oil change, only every other. I myself have been known to leave a quality oil filter in there for a second oil change. Why not?

Plus, how accurate are you going to be when measuring that extra cup of oil? Technically the amount of oil for a change with new filter is one gallon (4 quarts) plus 7.36 oz.. What if you have one of the longer oil filters on there? It may require a few more oz.

I know that personally, I have never measured it. I just fill it until it is at the upper mark in the sight glass while on the center stand. Start the engine and let it run for a bit to fill the filter (if new). Then shut it off and wait until it settles before topping it up to the upper mark again in the sight glass.

I don't see how the sight glass can possibly be considered ambiguous. But either way, it just isn't worth stressing over.

Quit using logic in a thread that was started without it

 

[gixxerjasen]

I know that personally, I have never measured it. I just fill it until it is at the upper mark in the sight glass while on the center stand. Start the engine and let it run for a bit to fill the filter (if new). Then shut it off and wait until it settles before topping it up to the upper mark again in the sight glass.

This

Quit using logic in a thread that was started without it

This

 

[bwv]

My oil didnt expand til after i did my clutch soak... the odd part is, the unused portion of the oil that I soaked the plates in contracted... when i put it back in the jug, it had decreased in volume.. AND... my bike does shift faster and easier.. but no where near 5.5Sps (or 55 shiftes in 10 seconds)...

I used both FredW's and RadioHowie's methods (using the sight glass and measuring the oil prior to installation) both were correct prior to the soak...then both were wrong afterwards.

Is there a connection?

 

[Daniel78362]

Through my experience, and experiences discussed here, many areaware of the oil level "growth" issue after an oil change.

I certainly don't have the answer, but I've got a circumvention that I

accidentally stumbled upon. It does not 100% eliminate the growth,

but certainly retards it to a barely noticeable level.

It's premium grade gas. A few summers ago I began using premium

gas in hopes of gaining a little cooler operation for the hot months.

I began to notice that at my normally short ~2K change interval, that

I hadn't yet filled the entire sight glass. Before the gas grade change,

I would complete an oil/filter change, being very careful to bring the

new oil level to the halfway point of the lower and upper margins. Of

course, this was accomplished after brief run-in to gain a stable oil

level.

As I rode, it would generally take somewhere around 2-2.5K miles

for the initial oil level to expand to, or beyond the full sight glass.

After the gas grade change, that I really just continued throughout

the entire year, my oil level at change time is still very close to the

original midpoint.

YMMV, based on any number of factors. I'm only describing this as

my experience.

Thanks.

Hey GMAK,

I'm a little late getting into this discussion but WOW, did you take a beating on this. I noticed a lot of "what you been smoking" comments from good folks I don't think really know much about "smoking". (I know I'm going to take it on that)............ Anyway, the same thing happened to me. Changed my oil and filter one afternoon, bike on center stand, to the appropriate level. Checked every day for about a week, the same. Then one day the following week, bike on center stand, I noticed that the oil level was high in the window. So no, it's not just you. Havent done anything about it since I plan on changing the oil soon. I assumed it was just the brand I used. Maybe someone can clarify, but doesn't transmission fluid expand when heated? Well good luck.

To all, Be Good, Be Safe

Daniel

 

[RossKean]

There are three factors in play here (we will assume the oil level is checked with the bike on the centerstand and on a level surface each time):

1. Oil expands when warm. Level will be higher in a hot engine.
2. It takes some time for the oil to drain down after the bike has been running. Stop, put bike on centerstand on level surface, wait 10 minutes for the oil level to stabilize, check level.
3. More frequently a problem with a carburated bike with a sticky float valve but fuel dilution of the oil is a possibility. Sniff test usually works but engine oil analysis is the best check if it can't be explained by 1 or 2 above.

Not rocket science and I'm pretty sure the FJR engine isn't capable of making oil. I check it after riding for an hour after changing oil (made sure it was right to start out). Might check it in a couple of thousand miles (or not). Doesn't burn any oil after 95,000 miles and doesn't make oil. I use regular gas too!

 

[garyahouse]

Daniel:

To answer your question about transmission oil, all oil expands when heated: doesn't matter what kind it is. However, this doesn't raise the level in the sight window enough to make any difference; certainly not the amount we're discussing here. You also commented on the TYPE of oil you have: the type of oil will have no effect on the oil level... under any circumstances.

Just a thought: all you guys and your center stand antics are forgetting something. When ya post this stuff on a forum read by hundreds, you're gonna have a few that have rather un-level driveways. I know most of you are smart enough not to make that mistake, but obviously If the ground isn't perfectly level, ya don't know if sight gauge is right. My driveway is like this. It's not a problem for me because one of my legs is shorter than the other. HOHOHO. However, if ya have somebody sit on the bike and balance it, you eliminate two very important variables. If the bike doesn't roll backward by itself, AND it's balanced from left to right, then the sight gauge will read accurately. That might have been the issue with our OP.

One other possibility: Every good mechanic knows that it's bad for an engine to run it short distances all the time. Running an engine for say, one mile to work each day for a month... with no other trips taken... would be very hard on the oil. Reason: if the engine doesn't heat up to a certain point on a regular basis, the fuel that gets into the oil (blow by) doesn't boil off like it's supposed to. It therefore dilutes the oil, making it smell like gas, and also increasing it's volume. Though this is much more prevalent with older engines (it actually happened to me), or air cooled engines (greater clearances), it happens to a lesser extent to all engines. That's exactly why it comes outa yer old Ford thin, runny, and smelling like gas. Your OP may not have been as nutso as you thought.

Gary

darksider #44

 

[Geezer]

I hope someone figures this out soon. My '05 is using a little oil, so much that I have taken to carrying a quart when on a multi-day ride. Now if I knew how to make the oil level increase then it would balance out my oil loss and I'd be able to break even between changes.

 

[ridernotbiker]

Aaawwwww, GMAK, we're just having some fun. Where are you?

Mrs. GMAK, can GMAK come out to play?

Seriously, this has been an interesting thread. Any thoughts on these comments GMAK? Come on, we can take it (deserve it

).

(Disclaimer: written with light-hearted intent)

 

[LAF]

I have never seen such a cluster bump over checking oil! WOW is it really this hard? I mean you fill to the top of the sight glass on the center stand. You take it for a run, bring it back, put it on the center stand check the sight glass after 10 minuets and add if needed.

I am totally amazed at some of the debates that go on here over such things. I mean do you really have to tell someone to be on level ground? The sight glass is no good, add a quantity and call it good?

You know I am not a master mechanic but I did just rebuild my entire front end of my PT Turbo, lower a arms, tie rod ends, new wheel bearings sway bar links front and rear, rear shocks, replaced struts only up front kept the springs. In a driveway with car jacks and a 4 foot pipe over 1/2" drive stuff. No air as my tank wont run one. But I do own a service manual for every vehicle I own.

I just do not understand all this over checking oil levels. How do you guys make out with cars?

Well this is sorta like washing your bike in neutral, have it flop over and then saying the side stand is defective.

Rant off/

 

[Fred W]

Wait... you are supposed to wash your bike in gear? I usually put it on the center stand and it's in neutral.

Guess I've been doing it wrong all along...

 

[ionbeam]

I have never seen such a cluster bump over checking oil! WOW is it really this hard...

Yes it is this hard. There are several processes on the FJR that are included in most standard Mensa tests: Is my oil level correct? How far can I ride with my gas gauge flashing? My engine temperature gauge is one block different from what I remember, should I still ride my motorcycle? I have 9k miles on my spark plugs, will I hurt my engine if I continue to ride my FJR? Why do my spark plugs look new when they have 8k miles on them? What is THE best tire? What is THE best oil? What is THE best battery? Now I have a headache from thinking about all these brain-burners and have to go back to bed...