Pterodactyl
Well-known member
Fred, when your skill level matures you can pay yourself with fine Irish spirits. Me, right now I earn an occasional shot of MD 20/20.
Resolved!: Screwed up big -- trusted the dealer for the first valve check
- Thread starter redzgrider
- Start date
Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
Historically, access time has been built into flat rate.
It is hard to make flat rate, even if you're skilled, if you don't do the job often enough to remember the short cuts.
Also, flat rate assumes you've got your tools ready, a good work area, and that you won't run into difficult fasteners.
Some shops modify book flat rate to account for this.
It is hard to make flat rate, even if you're skilled, if you don't do the job often enough to remember the short cuts.
Also, flat rate assumes you've got your tools ready, a good work area, and that you won't run into difficult fasteners.
Some shops modify book flat rate to account for this.
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
One of the sad things that leads to this adversarial relationship between customers and dealers is the number of cases where a customer buggars it up, buttons it up, takes it in (perhaps admonishing them not to run it so that work can be done cold), and then after the work when it has serious problems, sticks it on the dealer.
I DO NOT THINK THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED HERE.
But it does happen and every one who has ever been a service manager knows this, dating back to my own experiences which were over 43 years ago.
Add that to the fact that the FJR engine style is not common in the Yamaha inventory, even after 15 years in production, and these tragic situations can develop.
I've got ONE mechanic at the Yamaha dealer that I trust, and TWO at the Triumph dealer. I know that they "know."
But everyone does not have this luxury. If they did, there'd be fewer participants on forums.
I DO NOT THINK THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED HERE.
But it does happen and every one who has ever been a service manager knows this, dating back to my own experiences which were over 43 years ago.
Add that to the fact that the FJR engine style is not common in the Yamaha inventory, even after 15 years in production, and these tragic situations can develop.
I've got ONE mechanic at the Yamaha dealer that I trust, and TWO at the Triumph dealer. I know that they "know."
But everyone does not have this luxury. If they did, there'd be fewer participants on forums.
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Niehart
Pie Smuggler
It's easy when you own only have one or two bikes.
It's alot different when you work on different brands, engene's etc. and are up against the clock [more bikes waiting, time allotted per service manual, etc.].
So as long as you go back, tell the service manager what happened in a professional way and they take care of you, it's just one of life's lessons.
But then if they don't make it right, it time to make it one of the dealerships life lessons.
JSNS
It's alot different when you work on different brands, engene's etc. and are up against the clock [more bikes waiting, time allotted per service manual, etc.].
So as long as you go back, tell the service manager what happened in a professional way and they take care of you, it's just one of life's lessons.
But then if they don't make it right, it time to make it one of the dealerships life lessons.
JSNS
dcarver
Well-known member
I am very grateful I have a local independent 5-star Yamaha certified tech to work on my FJR's. Hoping for the best to the OP.
Well no news is... no news. No word from dealer today, and got home too late to call Mother Yamaha.
Just off the phone with both Yamaha customer service and the dealer. I know others have had good results, but I found customer service to be a complete waste of my time. I had no feeling what-so-ever that the representative rides a bike, much less knows anything about them. He has many of the 'facts' recorded, but can't grasp the basic elements of my issue.
Speaking with the dealer, and he notes that they have put 75 or so miles on the bike after applying a 'shock' treatment to the fuel. Yamaha tech support believes the problem is carbon build up on the throttle blades and intake passages. REALLY? Runs superb on Thursday, but won't idle on Friday, and that's because of carbon build up? I am flabbergasted.
I've told the dealer to drop tools. They are putting the panels back on, and I'm picking it up on Friday.
Speaking with the dealer, and he notes that they have put 75 or so miles on the bike after applying a 'shock' treatment to the fuel. Yamaha tech support believes the problem is carbon build up on the throttle blades and intake passages. REALLY? Runs superb on Thursday, but won't idle on Friday, and that's because of carbon build up? I am flabbergasted.
I've told the dealer to drop tools. They are putting the panels back on, and I'm picking it up on Friday.
jammess
Well-known member
Afternoon Red,
This begs the question: What are you going to do now? What is a "shock" treatment? let me guess, a bottle of Techron and call it good?
This begs the question: What are you going to do now? What is a "shock" treatment? let me guess, a bottle of Techron and call it good?
Good for you.
Get the bike home, re-check the valve timing and clearances, and you'll get it sorted out quickly, and can then put this ugly scene behind you.
What a bunch of douche-tards. I don't know if that is really what Yamaha senior support told them or not, but I'd be surprised if their senior techs actually believed that carbon buildup was what caused your acute issues.
On a 2012?
On the first valve check?
Total nonsense.
Edit - More likely their proprietary Ring Free. But that is not going to fix what ails this bike.
Get the bike home, re-check the valve timing and clearances, and you'll get it sorted out quickly, and can then put this ugly scene behind you.
What a bunch of douche-tards. I don't know if that is really what Yamaha senior support told them or not, but I'd be surprised if their senior techs actually believed that carbon buildup was what caused your acute issues.
On a 2012?
On the first valve check?
Total nonsense.
Edit - More likely their proprietary Ring Free. But that is not going to fix what ails this bike.
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08FJR4ME
-WYNPRO-
After reading all of this nonsense I will be doing my own valve checks on the 2015. Fortunately that will be a couple of years down the road. The 08 is past due though.
Dave
Dave
SkooterG
Purveyor of Crooked Facts
So a theoretical question: What is the next step if you get it home and all the timing is proper?
08FJR4ME
-WYNPRO-
RossKean
Well-known member
Then you look at some of the stuff in Post #53 plus another half dozen things I didn't consider. Even if the timing is OK, it doesn't mean that the service department didn't find another way to fuck it up!
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
Isn't this bike on the extended warranty?
And isn't this a time of year when it's not painful to not ride?
If yes to both, my inclination would be to let them keep working on it until they sort it out.
Yeah, I know they're dummies and you don't trust them.
Still, if Yamaha is helping them, they should eventually get to a good result .... probably before spring.
And isn't this a time of year when it's not painful to not ride?
If yes to both, my inclination would be to let them keep working on it until they sort it out.
Yeah, I know they're dummies and you don't trust them.
Still, if Yamaha is helping them, they should eventually get to a good result .... probably before spring.
Actually, this is Orlando, and this is just about the best time to ride there can be. Finally cool enough that gear doesn't make you sweat up a storm. If the timing is correct -- and while I really, really hope it's off, I actually think it will be spot on -- then I don't know what the next step will be. It won't be flushing my fuel system with Acetone of some other such nonsense.
Pterodactyl
Well-known member
There are two basic options here:
One- rely on a dealership that, with the backing of a disconnected customer service program, has repeatedly failed to resolve the problem, and refuses to even investigate the possibility that they screwed up.
Two- rely on your own commitment to getting the problem resolved with the backing of the smart, experienced and helpful members of this forum.
I know what I would do, and have done.
Oh, and go to multiple auto parts stores and buy every product with the word "Miracle" in its name.
One- rely on a dealership that, with the backing of a disconnected customer service program, has repeatedly failed to resolve the problem, and refuses to even investigate the possibility that they screwed up.
Two- rely on your own commitment to getting the problem resolved with the backing of the smart, experienced and helpful members of this forum.
I know what I would do, and have done.
Oh, and go to multiple auto parts stores and buy every product with the word "Miracle" in its name.
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TomInPA
Well-known member
Take pictures and video as you systematically pull the skins and tank, the head, and show them the timing marks. Better if you have a withness. This is dead simple. Let them know they can review pictures before being subpoenaed to small claims so they can refund your bill. Be careful to be forensic in this, and document the condition of wires along the timing cover as well as documenting the running performance (0-60 time?).
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Cav47
Adventure Seeker
Can you take it to another dealer?
Orlando surely has one that you feel better about?
You paid for that warranty, do what you can to ensure they honor it.
Orlando surely has one that you feel better about?
You paid for that warranty, do what you can to ensure they honor it.
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
1. It hasn't been long enough to whine about repeated failures. Give them a chance. Don't let hot heads in cold climates egg you on.
2. You can video all you like. Have you ever tried to use small claims court? It probably varies by state, but here it is way too aggravating to bother with unless you're one of those couponers who makes a hobby out of such things.
As long as you've got a warranty, I would gently make it their problem. I generally get better results by being persistent, but professional. Not lawyery, but friendly ... and empathetic and kind. Don't let them run over you, but don't be an asshole either.
2. You can video all you like. Have you ever tried to use small claims court? It probably varies by state, but here it is way too aggravating to bother with unless you're one of those couponers who makes a hobby out of such things.
As long as you've got a warranty, I would gently make it their problem. I generally get better results by being persistent, but professional. Not lawyery, but friendly ... and empathetic and kind. Don't let them run over you, but don't be an asshole either.
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Surly
Well-known member
Quite a while ago I had a similar problem as redzgrinder, I got a CCT changed on a Gen1. I delivered the bike running sweat, then got a call saying it was ready to be picked up. When I got to the shop the serviceman was just completing a test ride. My bike had Staintune pipes without restrictors and I could clearly hear it misbehaving. The bike shop loaned me a demo FZ1(FUN BIKE) while they investigated. I became convinced that the timing chain had moved a tooth because of the symptoms displayed and of the possibility of this being an issue discussed on this FORUM. I put this idea to the dealer who seemed to dismiss it. The dealer continued to investigate for a while and eventually the problem was solved. The dealer said that it was due to a electrical connector not being correctly fastened after reassembly. I had to accept this because I could not prove otherwise.
I have looked but cannot find the thread I am referring to on the FORUM but I still fully believe that it was because cam-chain had not been secured and was allowed to move.
At least I would expect that the/any dealer, acting in good faith, should give you a demo/loan bike until the fault is proven or rectified.
Hope this ends well for redzgrinder,
Best regards
Steve(Surly)
I have looked but cannot find the thread I am referring to on the FORUM but I still fully believe that it was because cam-chain had not been secured and was allowed to move.
At least I would expect that the/any dealer, acting in good faith, should give you a demo/loan bike until the fault is proven or rectified.
Hope this ends well for redzgrinder,
Best regards
Steve(Surly)
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