ABS Operation

Last night while riding home from work after midnight, a truck pulling a long, unlit trailer pulled out from an auto auction site on US1 RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME!! I grabbed as much front brake and stomped the rear brake. I got wode up (as Waltrip would say) in time to avoid an incident and possible death. I have a few questions for the technically versed. The rear brake lever pulsated, while the front did not. I had no time to utilize engine braking by downshifting. Did I achieve maximum braking performance? Does the front brake lever pulsate when approaching lock up? I know the FJR has linked brakes. But it seemed like I should have stopped quicker (dry pavement) from 70-75 mph. This was the closest I have come to becoming the other type of MC rider. I am grateful I am not making Dr's rich or in the cooler.

Rear locks up easier and ABS kicked in as designed.

If you had pulled the front harder it would have kicked in too...and stopped you sooner. Most folks never actually experience front ABS because they're skeeeered.

Try it in a parking lot sometime.

ScrapeApe said:

. Did I achieve maximum braking performance? Does the front brake lever pulsate when approaching lock up? I know the FJR has linked brakes. But it seemed like I should have stopped quicker (dry pavement) from 70-75 mph. This was the closest I have come to becoming the other type of MC rider. I am grateful I am not making Dr's rich or in the cooler.

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As seen here;



The rear brake won't do much if your using the front brakes to the maximum.

The front will pulsate when the abs is activated.

Iggy is absolutely correct. Get to practise squeezing that front brake lever HARD. I've never needed it in real life, but I have tried it out on a normal (empty) road. You need strong arms to stop flying forwards, and its braking is amazing, particularly on a wet or slippery road (yes, I've practised on those as well).

The bike remains rock steady, it's very impressive.

After a few practices, you will be much more confident in a "real" situation.

This was covered to some extent in this thread.

For those who've done it, what's the parking lot procedure? 35-ish mph, grab the front & rear and hang on? Faster? Slower?

I'm one of the skeered ones Iggy references, but I know I need to practice it.

uctofeej said:

For those who've done it, what's the parking lot procedure? 35-ish mph, grab the front & rear and hang on? Faster? Slower?
I'm one of the skeered ones Iggy references, but I know I need to practice it.

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YES!!! Practice for crying out loud!!!

I'd go a lot faster than 35mph, as you will likely be at 0 before you can get the ABS to activate. I would start at 60mph and then squeeze firmly and quickly, but don't grab it all at once. You want to feel the approach of maximum braking, and then the threshhold where the ABS kicks in.

I am actually surprised the initial poster felt pulsating in the rear pedal. On the several Gen II FJRs I have ridden, activating rear ABS was drama, and pulsating free.

SkooterG said:

YES!!! Practice for crying out loud!!!
I'd go a lot faster than 35mph, as you will likely be at 0 before you can get the ABS to activate. I would start at 60mph and then squeeze firmly and quickly, but don't grab it all at once. You want to feel the approach of maximum braking, and then the threshhold where the ABS kicks in.

I am actually surprised the initial poster felt pulsating in the rear pedal. On the several Gen II FJRs I have ridden, activating rear ABS was drama, and pulsating free.

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Spasibo, Skoot! Appreciate the response.

I've spent time practicing a lot of slow maneuvers with the clutch, don't know why I never worked on the ABS. I'll work on it this weekend.

SkooterG said:

I'd go a lot faster than 35mph, as you will likely be at 0 before you can get the ABS to activate. I would start at 60mph and then squeeze firmly and quickly, but don't grab it all at once. You want to feel the approach of maximum braking, and then the threshhold where the ABS kicks in.

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While I agree about the higher speed needed, I tend to disagree about the method with which to activate. If you "squeeze firmly" I think you may just stop very quickly as you will be, also, loading the front tire and achieving maximum braking. I think you've described, by using the term "squeeze firmly" proper braking procedure (ABS or not). To activate the ABS, I think you'd need to suddenly "grab" the front brake lever (as in an uneducated panic manuever) so the front tire would not get 'loaded' and be able to skid.

...On the several Gen II FJRs I have ridden, activating rear ABS was drama, and pulsating free.

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How do you know it's working, then?

charismaticmegafauna said:

SkooterG said:

I'd go a lot faster than 35mph, as you will likely be at 0 before you can get the ABS to activate. I would start at 60mph and then squeeze firmly and quickly, but don't grab it all at once. You want to feel the approach of maximum braking, and then the threshhold where the ABS kicks in.

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While I agree about the higher speed needed, I tend to disagree about the method with which to activate. If you "squeeze firmly" I think you may just stop very quickly as you will be, also, loading the front tire and achieving maximum braking. I think you've described, by using the term "squeeze firmly" proper braking procedure (ABS or not). To activate the ABS, I think you'd need to suddenly "grab" the front brake lever (as in an uneducated panic manuever) so the front tire would not get 'loaded' and be able to skid.

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Well, a rider might have to practice this technique a time or two to determine how quickly to grab the brake, but I still maintain it's a better learning experience if you can get a feel (even if only for a fraction fo a second) of threshhold braking, and the resulting release of braking pressure, or g's, when ABS kicks in.

...On the several Gen II FJRs I have ridden, activating rear ABS was drama, and pulsating free.

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How do you know it's working, then?

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Well, when you stomp on the rear brake pedal with all your might from 60mph and it never locks up, I would say the ABS is working. I mean, I have never had any problem locking my rear wheel on my 04 non-ABS, nor getting that bucking bronco feel from the rear brake lever on my 04 ABS when it has activated.

I do it all the time on the Natchez Trace between speeds of 50-55. That's all the trace is good for..deserted...empty..makes for an excellent practice field. You can ride for miles sometimes before encountering opposing traffic...I like to slalom the center line hashes and practice breaking..just me and nobody else. for a little while I'm a kid again.

SkooterG said:

...On the several Gen II FJRs I have ridden, activating rear ABS was drama, and pulsating free.

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How do you know it's working, then?

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Well, when you stomp on the rear brake pedal with all your might from 60mph and it never locks up, I would say the ABS is working.

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Aren't the Gen II brakes linked? Couldn't the bike be just 'stopping'? without drama?

I've only tried my abs in a wet parking lot at 20mph by just grabbing a handful all at once, just so I know what it feels like when activated.

I have not had a lockup in dry conditions.

charismaticmegafauna said:

Aren't the Gen II brakes linked? Couldn't the bike be just 'stopping'? without drama?

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Yup. Gen II are linked, but rear only engages part if the front brakes.

Linkded brakes or not, as hard as I stomped on that brake lever (several times) I really don't see how I could not have gotten past the ABS threshhold. And, as hard as it was, I was always able to get the front ABS to activate on the Gen IIs.

I practiced my abs on a paved back street with winter sand mix on it. It worked well I have not just grabbed a hand full to watch the abs pulse... But sounds like fun. Should I warn my wife before I yank the brakes at 70? I remember back long ago a picture of BMW abs practice.... they had big ol poles stickin out on the sides of the bike? I guess incase they dumped it or the abs failed. Anyone remember that picture? some motorcycle mag?

ScrapeApe said:

Last night while riding home from work .... I grabbed as much front brake and stomped the rear brake. I have a few questions .... The rear brake lever pulsated, while the front did not. Did I achieve maximum braking performance?

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No

Does the front brake lever pulsate when approaching lock up?

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Yes -- according to 'SkooterG'.

I know the FJR has linked brakes. But it seemed like I should have stopped quicker (dry pavement) from 70-75 mph.

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To stop better/quicker you need to get to the threshold of skid/ABS actuation with the front brake system, too -- they aren't linked enough for just one master cylinder to do it all (apparently?).

Practice!

I can get my Gen I rear ABS to activate @ 25 mph, and that while "squeezing" the fronts in emergency braking practice.

I usually work my way up until I can get the front to activate (around 30-35 mph). Once I know the threshold, I raise the speed and test myself at emergency braking.

Hmmmmm, I thought everyone did this...at least monthly!?!?!? Please tell me you are practicing circles and figure eights, then lane changes (swerving, at speed) so you'll have the muscle memory in place in an emergency situation. :blink: Should I mention that I know two NorCal riders who do these exercises with their pillion. As one said (and his wife-unit agreed), "How else am I going to know what the bike will do? And how is she going to know what it feels like?"

N-e-v-e-r-m-i-n-d.

madmike2 said:

Practice!
I can get my Gen I rear ABS to activate @ 25 mph, and that while "squeezing" the fronts in emergency braking practice.

I usually work my way up until I can get the front to activate (around 30-35 mph). Once I know the threshold, I raise the speed and test myself at emergency braking.

Hmmmmm, I thought everyone did this...at least monthly!?!?!? Please tell me you are practicing circles and figure eights, then lane changes (swerving, at speed) so you'll have the muscle memory in place in an emergency situation. :blink: Should I mention that I know two NorCal riders who do these exercises with their pillion. As one said (and his wife-unit agreed), "How else am I going to know what the bike will do? And how is she going to know what it feels like?"

N-e-v-e-r-m-i-n-d.

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I do practice several skills, just never added the ABS to the list.

I've got an ab lounge so I don't need to practise on the scoot. It'll all come natural after working out.

Ab lounge? Sounds like too much work.