06 runs poor after re-start

My 06 runs like a scaleded cat from cold start to the first get off. Then, sometimes, but not always, after shutting off and checking in to the hotel, going in the store, etc., it will barely start & runs like shit at low idle / starting out speed (seems to happen more when it sets in the sun or is hot). Last time I could smell gas when it finally started. Especially troublesome when turning left at a stop light or pulling into traffic. Runs very rough and takes a lot of clutch feathering to start out, then it settles down and hauls ass - no problems at highway speed. Took it to a dealer. They kept it for a week, ran trouble codes, test rode and could find nothing wrong, nor could they replicate symptoms. Dealer confirmed bike has had ECU, meter, & recently, ignition switch recalls.

Bike is a California model. First time occured in Las Vegas at 110 deg after stopping for about an hour. Wrote it off to high heat. Second time happened in Pagosa Springs, Colorado. I live at about 4000', last time occured at 4500' after running in city traffic, going into the mall and starting up. Very annoying when riding in traffic - not to mention dangerous. Anyone w/ similar experience or ideas?

jtd said:

My 06 runs like a scaleded cat from cold start to the first get off. Then, sometimes, but not always, after shutting off and checking in to the hotel, going in the store, etc., it will barely start & runs like shit at low idle / starting out speed (seems to happen more when it sets in the sun or is hot). Last time I could smell gas when it finally started. Especially troublesome when turning left at a stop light or pulling into traffic. Runs very rough and takes a lot of clutch feathering to start out, then it settles down and hauls ass - no problems at highway speed. Took it to a dealer. They kept it for a week, ran trouble codes, test rode and could find nothing wrong, nor could they replicate symptoms. Dealer confirmed bike has had ECU, meter, & recently, ignition switch recalls.
Bike is a California model. First time occured in Las Vegas at 110 deg after stopping for about an hour. Wrote it off to high heat. Second time happened in Pagosa Springs, Colorado. I live at about 4000', last time occured at 4500' after running in city traffic, going into the mall and starting up. Very annoying when riding in traffic - not to mention dangerous. Anyone w/ similar experience or ideas?

Click to expand...

You're likely experiencing heat related fuel vaporization in the tank and fuel injection system. Your Cal spec bike collects any tank fumes in a canister and recycles them through the engine intake. It's a product of Green legislation we don't have to deal with. That may temporarily lead to too much fuel vapor for the engine to burn. It also has some other plumbing the other 49 States don't.

One thing to try is crack the fuel cap before firing up to briefly let off tank pressure if you think there's a chance of vapor formation. Extinguish all smoking materials and watch for any static source before opening the filler cap. Might not make much difference. But do try carefully opening the throttle some when starting to purge any vapors and add some more air. See it that helps clear out the fumes. Watch the idle rpms until it settles down. Also, your fuel should be formulated for a different vapor pressure than that sold in lower/cooler climates. If not, it can cause problems.

Can't remember when I last saw 110 deg - never in Alaska except in a sauna or hot springs pool.

Gary in Fairbanks

PA1195 said:

jtd said:

My 06 runs like a scaleded cat from cold start to the first get off. Then, sometimes, but not always, after shutting off and checking in to the hotel, going in the store, etc., it will barely start & runs like shit at low idle / starting out speed (seems to happen more when it sets in the sun or is hot). Last time I could smell gas when it finally started. Especially troublesome when turning left at a stop light or pulling into traffic. Runs very rough and takes a lot of clutch feathering to start out, then it settles down and hauls ass - no problems at highway speed. Took it to a dealer. They kept it for a week, ran trouble codes, test rode and could find nothing wrong, nor could they replicate symptoms. Dealer confirmed bike has had ECU, meter, & recently, ignition switch recalls.
Bike is a California model. First time occured in Las Vegas at 110 deg after stopping for about an hour. Wrote it off to high heat. Second time happened in Pagosa Springs, Colorado. I live at about 4000', last time occured at 4500' after running in city traffic, going into the mall and starting up. Very annoying when riding in traffic - not to mention dangerous. Anyone w/ similar experience or ideas?

Click to expand...

You're likely experiencing heat related fuel vaporization in the tank and fuel injection system. Your Cal spec bike collects any tank fumes in a canister and recycles them through the engine intake. It's a product of Green legislation we don't have to deal with. That may temporarily lead to too much fuel vapor for the engine to burn. It also has some other plumbing the other 49 States don't.

One thing to try is crack the fuel cap before firing up to briefly let off tank pressure if you think there's a chance of vapor formation. Extinguish all smoking materials and watch for any static source before opening the filler cap. Might not make much difference. But do try carefully opening the throttle some when starting to purge any vapors and add some more air. See it that helps clear out the fumes. Watch the idle rpms until it settles down. Also, your fuel should be formulated for a different vapor pressure than that sold in lower/cooler climates. If not, it can cause problems.

Can't remember when I last saw 110 deg - never in Alaska except in a sauna or hot springs pool.

Gary in Fairbanks

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Thanks Gary. Very Helpful info. I'll try opening the gas tank next time. How difficult would it be to remove Cali emissions components?

JTD

Thanks Gary. Very Helpful info. I'll try opening the gas tank next time. How difficult would it be to remove Cali emissions components?

JTD

Tampering with the State of California mandated emission parts would be illegal, and may subject you to severe penalties if you're ever caught or reported. They're there to save you (and others) from yourself, and prevent unwanted disease. Amen, etc.

However, given that the 49 State '08 in my garage was sold not in California and is in violation of the same standard, it makes me wonder about MY risks. The horror!

Here's a link to the parts diagram from Yamaha's public website for the FJR13AVC showing the canister and associated plumbing: https://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/parts/home.aspx

Pay particular attention to the diagrams titled "FUEL TANK" and "INTAKE" noting the "FOR CAL" additional components on your bike.

If I were to change the CAL plumbing on my bike, if it had any, I might do something about the hose that connects the canister to the intake system if it's the source of excess fuel vapors. I'll leave the rest for your consideration. Act responsibly. Don't allow dirt ingress to any intake fittings or hose ends.

Try to see if the fuel tank is pressurizing first, as I see a myriad of valves in the outlet lines. Mine just dumps everything into my garage, or wherever I'm at. Yours collects the outgoing vapors, and returns them to either the fuel tank when it cools, or burns them in the engine when it starts is my best guess. Opening the tank cap may allow the canister to purge some back into the tank (?) and lower the fuel system pressure (?).

Gary in Fairbanks

jtd said:

My 06 runs like a scaleded cat from cold start to the first get off. Then, sometimes, but not always, after shutting off and checking in to the hotel, going in the store, etc., it will barely start & runs like shit at low idle / starting out speed (seems to happen more when it sets in the sun or is hot)... Runs very rough and takes a lot of clutch feathering to start out, then it settles down and hauls ass - no problems at highway speed.
Bike is a California model.

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My '05 too. Doesn't like to idle/run at low RPMs when first started after sitting in the hot sun or after a shut-down, then restart (but IIRC, only occasionally has starting problems - I'll know for sure in about 3 weeks when summer comes back to Sacto). I do not have a PCIII.

Makes me look like quite the dork when I first try to take off after work and don't have the acceleration of a moped, but am leaned into my first turn out of the parking space. By the time I've gone a mile or two, all is well again in fuel-injection land.

Thanks Gary. Something to look into, indeed. I had assumed it was a universal FJR trait - as opposed to Cali specific.

PA1195 said:

Thanks Gary. Very Helpful info. I'll try opening the gas tank next time. How difficult would it be to remove Cali emissions components?
JTD

Click to expand...

Hmmm.....

hypothetically - Clicky Here

kaitsdad said:

PA1195 said:

Thanks Gary. Very Helpful info. I'll try opening the gas tank next time. How difficult would it be to remove Cali emissions components?
JTD

Click to expand...

Hmmm.....

hypothetically - Clicky Here

Click to expand...

Excellent. Big medicine. Hypothetically.

Gary in Fairbanks

If tank venting turns out not to be the problem check diAG Fault Code 61 for any stored failure codes. The next time your motorcycle is experiencing the conditions that bring on the poor re-start driveability, before trying to re-start, check diAG code 06. This code reads the coolant temperature, if this reading is too low the ECU will think the engine is cold and run the fuel enrichment profile (choke) causing the engine to be way too rich. If the reading is too high the ECU will think the engine is hot and may fail to run the enrichment profile causing a lean drive-away. If nothing else these two checks will eliminate another possibility, plus they are FREE and easy.

Excellent suggestion by Ionbeam re checking the engine cooling temps and trouble codes causing a bad mixture. JTD mentioned in his original post that the Dealer had checked them (but ????).

He also mentioned a raw gas smell when it finally caught and ran some after heat soaking. That's what got me thinking about excess fuel via the captured fumes being added to the base mixture causing a rich start. But, I can also see another scenario from any fuel in the injection rail boiling from the excessive heat and vaporizing. I think that would cause a lean condition until liquid fuel was made available from the fuel pump.

What we really don't know is whether or not the bike is running rich or lean at startup when hot. A raw gas smell (assuming it's from the exhaust) would indicate a rich condition to me. Stumbling and hesitation could indicate either rich or lean.

I assume that the tank is vented somehow via the tubing and vapor canister so that vapor pressure can't build up inside the tank. That was why I suggested cracking the cap to see if it the system was self-pressurizing via heat. Excessive pressure in the tank could cause the injection system to exceed the 47 psi running limit, and make it run rich until the pressure dropped. Just speculation.

And of course the real kicker is whether or not 49 State bikes do this routinely. It gets damn hot, and folks run at altitude, in other places besides California. If it's limited to Cal spec bikes, then it's likely tied to the additional plumbing somehow.

The undependable performance when needed would be a plumbing deal breaker for me.

Gary in Fairbanks

My 06 does it too after sitting in the sun on hot days at work. The engine is definately cooled off by the time I leave. It even has a PC3 and custom map. I've tried opening the gas cap for a second to relieve pressure and it still does it. I wonder if the heat is causing bubbles in the fuel system or something. I doubt it though, because it fires right up and idles fine, it just won't rev over 1.5k until I've gone a few hundred yards. Strange.

Mine does the same thing -- it is a CA bike as well. Although I'm not in CA, nor do I intend to ever go there, so....

Venting the tank doesn't help me at all. FWIW.