Compare: Dragon Tail / Devil's Highway

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Slab Pig

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If you have taken on both the Dragon's Tail (NC, TN) and the Devil's Highway (AZ), please tell us what your thoughts are on both. I'm especially interested in comparison of technical aspects between the two: subjective physical endurance level expended, max speed posted, lowest speed posted, length of longest straight, time to make the runs start to finish, total distances start to finish, etc.

total distances start to finish Dragon: 11 miles? is that right?

 
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If you have taken on both the Dragon's Tail (NC, TN) and the Devil's Highway (AZ), please tell us what your thoughts are on both. I'm especially interested in comparison of technical aspects between the two: subjective physical endurance level expended, max speed posted, lowest speed posted, length of longest straight, time to make the runs start to finish, total distances start to finish, etc.
total distances start to finish Dragon: 11 miles? is that right?
BTDT. Both are unique, but the Dragon can be a zoo! Could be considered more technical than the Devil's Highway in spots, but some of that would be due to dodging idiots. I don't have technical info as to how long the straights are, but I'm sure Google Maps can help you out to compare the two roads. The Dragon is fine, but it's one of those things that IMHO, once you do it, there are other fish to fry.

OTOH, good ol' 666 (now 191 due to superstitious ADOT workers?) is great! It's in the middle of nowhere, (top off before heading out, IIRC there are no services for about 100 miles) and enjoy the almost non-exsistent traffic. The traffic you do see is often over the centerline as they're not expecting anyone out there either, but it's mainly just you and the wild life. Sweepers, tight twisties and some great straight aways up on top to blow out the carbon. If I had to choose between the two, the Devil's Highway wins hands down for me.

I see you're in Phx so the 666 is a day trip anyway so go for it!

 
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Is it true that the Dragon is only 11 miles? The first 11 miles of Devil's Highway is what we use to warm up our tires. All this hubbub is over 11 miles? Come on, can't be...

 
Is it true that the Dragon is only 11 miles? The first 11 miles of Devil's Highway is what we use to warm up our tires. All this hubbub is over 11 miles? Come on, can't be...
There is plenty of other crappy road associated with US129, but the 11 miles from "the resort" north into Tennessee is the most moron infested segment, and its the part that is known as the tail of the dragon.

The road is really no different than many other back roads in the mountains, or up and down the Cumberland Plateau, but the resort guys created a legend, and it took hold. It is a genuine moron magnet... and in this way it has great value to those of us who ride in this neck of the woods. You can just about guarantee that the squids and wannabees will be over at the Dragon, drawing enforcement and general congestion away from other roads.... better for the rest of us.

In recent years when I've gone up US 129 out of Robinsville toward Maryville, I've had to dodge log trucks, ginormous RVs, and cruisers that can't make their corners, and guys who can't afford a track day who want to pass on one wheel on the double yellow blind corners. And, of course, there is the enforcement. Every time I've been through there in recent years, I've seen at least one accident.

The Tail of the Dragon is a classic case of some folks selling their hobby and ruining it for everyone. If you don't remember what it was like BEFORE all the publicity, and if you're attracted to crowded rides, then YMMV.

 
The Dragon can be a truly challenging piece of road for even the most experienced and skilled rider, when you attempt it at exactly the posted speed limit, no more, no less. Beyond that particular challenge, its best feature is the entertainment value it provides.

However, we do have several thousand miles of equal to greater challenging roads within a day's journey of The Dragon.

Go earn your Dragon sticker and display it proudly. It becomes a true conversation starter anywhere you ride.

 
"It is a genuine moron magnet"............that's funny. :rolleyes:

"All this hubbub is over 11 miles"......... sure is. Moron or not, I had a blast everytime I was down, especially during the off-season. Hope to go back and meet a few more of my moron brothers in the near future.

Canadian FJR

 
IMHO, Devil's Highway wins that match, just watch for wildlife (elk are BIG animals!). I've ridden it twice (well four times as we liked it so much both time we turned around and rode it back in the oppostie direction), and the Dragon mulitple times, but prefer 666 (191) south of Alpine. Love those long sweepers, the cooler temps, higher speeds. Plus you can run over to Hatch and pick up green chili's!!! As noted above, lots of good riding around the Dragon, and that is why we go back. Not so much 129, as the other roads you can find in the area. Lots of good roads, without the noted morons.

 
Thanks for your input. Good stuff. I did a little research about the two routes, at the Roadrunner in New River, AZ. I hear that those who ride the Devil's Hiway return with a mark of somekind on their bodies. They say the mark is "imprinted" by the road itself. Spooky. They tell me that those that take this route often, become more reckless, violent with each pass. OTOH, those, I hear, who take the Dragon, experience an enlarging or lengthening of their coccyx bone, which is thought by some biologists to be a vestigial tail.

Is this true?

If it is, I'm thinking about riding the Dragon backwards, facing the taillight.

Has anyone tried this? What is the effect?

 
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IMHO, Devil's Highway wins that match, just watch for wildlife (elk are BIG animals!). I've ridden it twice (well four times as we liked it so much both time we turned around and rode it back in the oppostie direction), and the Dragon mulitple times, but prefer 666 (191) south of Alpine. Love those long sweepers, the cooler temps, higher speeds. Plus you can run over to Hatch and pick up green chili's!!! As noted above, lots of good riding around the Dragon, and that is why we go back. Not so much 129, as the other roads you can find in the area. Lots of good roads, without the noted morons.
+1, Gunny! My Son Seth and I rode The Dragon while attending the BMW MOA Rally in Johnson City, Tennessee in 2009. After riding the 11 miles of The Dragon, I was totally baffled as to why it was so popular. The Devil's Highway is everything fjrb0 says above and much more, FOR 111 MILES!!!

 
I will be doing the Dragon's Tail/teeth/..whatever...this weekend. I'm expecting another mountain road like anything else in N GA. Take my time and enjoy it.

Going to stay in Pigeon Forge Sat night.

I'm really excited about it. It will be my first time on the Tail.

I'm actually more excited about the two day trip more than the infamous Dragon's (enter body part here).

 
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<!--quoteo(post=786856:date=Sep 10 2010, 12:45 PM:name=Slab Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slab Pig @ Sep 10 2010, 12:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=786856"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you have taken on both the Dragon's Tail (NC, TN) and the Devil's Highway (AZ), please tell us what your thoughts are on both. I'm especially interested in comparison of technical aspects between the two: subjective physical endurance level expended, max speed posted, lowest speed posted, length of longest straight, time to make the runs start to finish, total distances start to finish, etc.

total distances start to finish Dragon: 11 miles? is that right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

BTDT. Both are unique, but the Dragon can be a zoo! Could be considered more technical than the Devil's Highway in spots, but some of that would be due to dodging idiots. I don't have technical info as to how long the straights are, but I'm sure Google Maps can help you out to compare the two roads. The Dragon is fine, but it's one of those things that IMHO, once you do it, there are other fish to fry.

OTOH, good ol' 666 (now 191 due to superstitious ADOT workers?) is great! It's in the middle of nowhere, (top off before heading out, IIRC there are no services for about 100 miles) and enjoy the almost non-exsistent traffic. The traffic you do see is often over the centerline as they're not expecting anyone out there either, but it's mainly just you and the wild life. Sweepers, tight twisties and some great straight aways up on top to blow out the carbon. If I had to choose between the two, the Devil's Highway wins hands down for me.

I see you're in Phx so the 666 is a day trip anyway so go for it!
CAJW: +100, Ten Fold Gunny! Fully agree with you 100%, the Devil's Highway wins hands down for Papa Chuy, Wolfhound-FJRobert, vectervp1-Arte, Test Rider-Jack C. and my illegitimate bastard son SkooterG also. "666" is the best kept secret in the Southwest. Name was changed to Highway 191 due to the very strong political influence of The Church of Latter Day Saints, the local Mormon Ward in Safford, Arizona!

 
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Haven't ridden the devils hgwy but really the question compares apples to apples?

The Gap (and I'd never ride it on the wkend, that's when all the loonies are there) is

only 11 miles... but it's 318 turns in 11 miles... does that compare to Devils hgwy?

People compare the Gap to The Blueridge parkway, or the Cherohala Skyway, but u really

can't compare them, on the later two you need to be going about 90 to get the same lean

angle you get at the gap at 40...

It's all a matter of choice imho. Me? going with the Gap no contest.

 
I liked the dragon, but it's true that there are a lot of other roads in the area that are as good or better. I've only been once and was following the guy with the gps. I didn't know how far away it was and remember thinking "this must be the dragon" about 10 times as we approached it because the roads around it were extremely fun. Haven't tried the devils highway yet, sounds like one to add to the list :D

 
The Gap is certainly the more technical road in my opinion. If you have any plans to ride it, go on a weekday because as others have said it turns into a Village People/ Sqid fest on the weekend. I do like the devil Hwy. for the speeds you can carry and the laid back leo's. Although when I rode it I was on a DL650 so not exactly breakin any records. It seems a little better engineered than the Gap too if that makes any sense. But, as Haulinashe said a few post back, the thing that makes the Gap special is'nt the 11 miles known as "the dragon" it's the 1000 miles of equally great roads that are only a short ride from it

 
I've never ridden the Devil's Highway.

But the Tail of the Dragon, or Deals Gap, or whatever anybody else wants to call it, is a road you have to ride to say you've done it. It is very technical and challenging even without all the other traffic. But as others have said, there are so many other roads in the area to experience you can spend a week around the area and never get bored.

We are heading up next week to North Georgia with a 2 day stop in Robinnsville as well and plan to do Cherohala, Hwy 28, Wayah Rd, and some other local roads on Sunday. Then we will hit Deals Gap , Foothills Pkwy and some other roads on Monday.

 
Here are five points to please consider: 1) The Federal Highway Administration itself considers The Devil's Highway to be the curviest Highway in the United States, not The Dragon. 2) You experience an over 6,000 foot change in elevation on this route, more than you do on most Alpine roads; and certainly much more than the couple of thousand foot change on the Dragon. 3) The Devil's Highway is 123 miles long, not just 11 miles; with over 450 true switchbacks and over 1,000 very tight curves. 4) There is virtually NO Law Enforcement presence on The Devil's Highway, this is out in No-Man's Land of Eastern Arizona; looking from the roadway east into New Mexico. 5) Squids, geeks and wanna-be poser riders avoid The Devil's Highway like the plaque: This road is for experts only, if you cannot handle your bike at speed on a very challenging roadway, you have no business being on the Devil's Highway. Nearest hospital is 200 miles away, giant elk, mountain lions and mule deer are obstacles. You FUCK UP and go off the road on The Devil's Highway, you are done for, nobody is coming to your rescue way out here in the Arizona Wilderness.

And as far as other twisty roads in the area goes, on the New Mexico side of the border is Highways 180 and 78, every bit as Twisty as '666' is; combine these three routes together in a loop and you have over a 300 mile day of twisties, not just 11 miles.

Devil's Highway Region has always been remote and desolate, making it a safe place to avoid the Law, was preferred by Butch Cassidy and his gang as a hideout, along with other famous Western Outlaws; and also was used by Geronimo and his Chiricahua Apaches; Cochise, Mangas Colorado and other Indian leaders found refuge here on the site of the trail of infamous Conquistador Vasquez Coronado of Old Spain. If you're looking for a road where you can get your picture taken and buy a T-Shirt saying you "conquered" 11 miles, Devil's Highway is definitely NOT for you!

"There is a riders' dream carved in the White Mountains of eastern Arizona, the legendary

old Route 666 nick named the Devil’s Highway!

Load up the bike and ride a couple of hours to Springerville, AZ. The 230 mile trip from Phoenix is already a spectacular one. Both the roads and the scenery are gorgeous as you climb from the desert onto the Colorado Plateau. There are cliffs, canyons and gorges along the way and the roads on the high plateau just sweep through the largest ponderosa pine forest in the US. The area provides a wide array of accommodations from campsites to luxury lodges. Get a good night’s sleep in order to start fresh in the morning. There are more than 1,000 curves to conquer the next day!

The Route 666 Run starts and ends in Springerville. Reset your trip meter and leave south via Alpine Divide Pass (8525 ft) for Alpine where the common branch of US 191 and US 180 departs at 27 miles. Following US 180 fast paced sweepers and broad vistas will entertain you during a gradual descent. These are the “roads less traveled”, so don’t expect strip malls, car dealerships and gas stations to be lined up. Alma, the hideout for Butch Cassidy and his gang in the 1890’s, provides you with gas and food 80 miles from the starting point.

Right at 100 miles lies the intersection of US 180 and Rt 78. Make a left turn onto Rt 78 towards Mule Creek. The scenery is picture worthy again, as the road climbs up to 6,300 feet on the Big Lue Mountains and descends to Three Way, where you actually have three ways to go. This is the intersection of Rt 78, Rt 75 and US 191. Your trip meter shows 135 miles here.

Turn right (north) onto US 191 and ride another 9 miles to the Circle K in Clifton. Make sure you get gas here, because there are no services for the next 70 miles and it’s all uphill!

If you turn left onto Chase Creek Street, just a mile from the gas station, you’ll find yourself in the old business district. The historic brick buildings squeezed between a hill and a mountain creek look right out of a movie set. Turn of the century stores and banks, boarding houses and saloons are waiting for rejuvenation which makes the place even more authentic.

Buckle up, now! The ride was great so far, but what you’ll experience next, is one of the best rides in the entire US. It’s a ride of your life, on a road so steep and winding that it would put a Swiss mountain pass to shame.

From the first summit however, you can peak into something Switzerland never had, a man-made canyon two miles wide and three miles long. The ant-sized things crawling across its bottom are 200-ton trucks with tires standing nine feet tall. Those trucks and the shovels that fed them were moving mountains at the rate of up to 500,000 tons of ore and waste per day.

No wonder it seems devilish! You are riding on the once legendary Devil’s Highway, former Route 666. The first European visitor of the area was the Spanish explorer Francisco Vasquez de Coronado, seeking the riches of the legendary Seven Cities of Cibola in 1540. His route ran close to the existing road thus the US National Scenic Byway program adopted this incredible 123 mile strip of tarmac as the Coronado Trail.

The Federal Highway Administration considers this road to be the curviest road in the nation, with 450 switchbacks and up to 1000 curves and turns in total. The rumors on the rider grapevine are true. For an incredible ride, this one is very hard to beat. It’s long, it’s twisty, it’s a roller coaster, and it’s in a wilderness setting that will thrill whatever senses you have left that the road didn’t overload. The elevation change is more than 6,000 ft from around 3,000 ft in the Sonoran Desert to over 9,000 ft in the Alpine meadows, forests and highlands.

Concentrate, brake, downshift, twist, accelerate, turn and repeat the sequence for mile after mile after mile. Sometimes you just have to pull off into a scenic rest to rest your brain because you’d soon feel as a sun-stroked snake on LSD. Most of the twisties are between Clifton and Hannagan’s Meadow (at 215 mi) but after the climb from Clifton it’s nice to sit back and enjoy the sweepers through the Ponderosa Pine Forest back into Alpine when your trip meter shows 238 mi.

Though the 27 miles back to Springerville is the same that you started the day with, riding north will provide you with such a different view that you might begin to raise doubts if you were riding in the right direction."

 
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If memory serves me, and please correct me if I'm wrong on this, there's a 1,400 foot elevation change on The Dragon. On The Devil's Highway there's over a 6K foot elevation change. Road is fully graphed out as shown below: You're running from a high of 9,377 ft. to a low of 3.1K'. Constantly climbing or constantly dropping, nothing in between.

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