E15 / Unleaded 88 in 2008 FJR1300

[Diablo1]

I run E10 in my FJR1300 except for winter storage where I fill it with pure gas because it stores longer before going bad. I would never run more than 10% ethanol in any vehicle because alcohol causes fuel system corrosion problems- that’s based on information from an engineer friend that works for one of the big 3 auto manufacturers doing failure analysis on fuel system components. He sees lots of strange material failures even in flex fuel vehicles supposedly designed to work with E85. His advice was avoid using E85 and your flex fuel vehicle will have fewer problems. I also have 3 other motorcycles that I run with pure gas to prevent the nylon gas tank from distorting. Where do you get pure gas?
https://www.pure-gas.org/

 

[Bounce]

I know how I feel about redirecting our food production and increasing imports (on both oil and food).

 

[torch]

E85 (85% ethanol) is another whole ballgame. The ethanol thing is a strange mixture of economics and politics and I would question that it is really cheaper (especially on an energy content basis) compared to gasoline. Very much dependent upon farm and manufacturer subsidies, commodity pricing, taxes etc., weighed against political favor and desire for energy self-sufficiency in transportation fuels. Depends on how you do the math - not a simple formula.

Just to clarify: I was referring specifically to an engine design and tune specifically aimed at taking advantage of E85's strengths, and a price specific to the end user of E85. You are correct, it is not a blanket solution or application and the pricing is subject to a lot more factors than pure market forces might otherwise dictate!

And yes, the production and distribution of ethanol is itself energy intensive -- but so is the production of hydrocarbon fuels. EG: I once toured a new natural gas pipeline pumping facility. The compressors were themselves powered by the same natural gas they were being used to pressurize, and the person conducting the tour mentioned that the pipeline actually burns 90% of the gas going into it just to move it across the country to your home!

 

[RossKean]

EG: I once toured a new natural gas pipeline pumping facility. The compressors were themselves powered by the same natural gas they were being used to pressurize, and the person conducting the tour mentioned that the pipeline actually burns 90% of the gas going into it just to move it across the country to your home!

Astonishing statistic. Obviously depends upon the distances involved between source and consumer, but a major factor in ultimate energy cost.

 

[an-guy]

Just to clarify: I was referring specifically to an engine design and tune specifically aimed at taking advantage of E85's strengths, and a price specific to the end user of E85. You are correct, it is not a blanket solution or application and the pricing is subject to a lot more factors than pure market forces might otherwise dictate!

I'll also just add that I've seen more American flex fuel vehicles blow up fuel pumps more than ones that have not. I think you have to pump much more E85 than E10 or E0 to get an engine to do the same task.

 

[RossKean]

I'll also just add that I've seen more American flex fuel vehicles blow up fuel pumps more than ones that have not. I think you have to pump much more E85 than E10 or E0 to get an engine to do the same task.

Not all that much difference in volume. Incompatibility of materials is more likely. According to an energy density table in Wikipedia, E10 has about 1.3 times the energy per litre as compared to E85 - 30% more volume for same energy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

 

[roger dodger]

https://www.pure-gas.org/
This website lists (almost) all the places to get E-0- in every state.

I still run E10 all summer in my FJR, and then store it for the winter months with E-0- and Stabil when the snow flies. YMMV

 

[RossKean]

https://www.pure-gas.org/
This website lists (almost) all the places to get E-0- in every state.

I still run E10 all summer in my FJR, and then store it for the winter months with E-0- and Stabil when the snow flies. YMMV

Unfortunately, there are VERY few stations in Canada selling E0. For the bikes, I add Stabil and fill completely. For small carbureted engines, I run them dry before putting them away for the season. Haven't had a fuel-related problem yet.

 

[Oldjeep]

Unfortunately, there are VERY few stations in Canada selling E0. For the bikes, I add Stabil and fill completely. For small carbureted engines, I run them dry before putting them away for the season. Haven't had a fuel-related problem yet.

I leave e10 in everything. Only thing I run dry is the Briggs carb on my generator. Everything else with carbs is either Honda powered or 2 stroke and could care less.

 

[Bounce]

I'll also just add that I've seen more American flex fuel vehicles blow up fuel pumps more than ones that have not. I think you have to pump much more E85 than E10 or E0 to get an engine to do the same task.

Energy density of corn is less than of petrol. You get less pollution per mile but also fewer miles per gallon. I've always wondered about where the actual break-over point is where you end up polluting more simply as a result of the lower MPG.

Not all that much difference in volume. Incompatibility of materials is more likely. According to an energy density table in Wikipedia, E10 has about 1.3 times the energy per litre as compared to E85 - 30% more volume for same energy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

I'm not comfortable with claiming a 30% increase (in needed volume for the same travel distances) as "not much difference". Seems to be dancing too close to the EV apologists with more disposable income than me.

 

[RossKean]

I'm not comfortable with claiming a 30% increase (in needed volume for the same travel distances) as "not much difference". Seems to be dancing too close to the EV apologists with more disposable income than me.

My comment had absolutely nothing to do with "EV apologists with more disposable income than me". It was solely in response to a previous comment about fuel pumps blowing up because of extra volume pumped for E85 vs E10. Based upon thermochemical energy content, the additional volume pumped (for the same amount of energy) is only on the order of 30% - not a major factor in fuel pump longevity. Don't think I have ever replaced a fuel pump on any vehicle - irrespective of miles driven or volume of fuel pumped.

I am not a proponent of ethanol based fuels. Nothing I can do about it so I just try to understand it and find ways to live with the problems.

 

[an-guy]

My comment had absolutely nothing to do with "EV apologists with more disposable income than me". It was solely in response to a previous comment about fuel pumps blowing up because of extra volume pumped for E85 vs E10. Based upon thermochemical energy content, the additional volume pumped (for the same amount of energy) is only on the order of 30% - not a major factor in fuel pump longevity. Don't think I have ever replaced a fuel pump on any vehicle - irrespective of miles driven or volume of fuel pumped.

I am not a proponent of ethanol based fuels. Nothing I can do about it so I just try to understand it and find ways to live with the problems.

For the record that comment was equal parts a knock towards E85 and most of the American vehicles that just don't have very good quality parts. My speculative example, a fuel pump, which is probably just barely good enough to not cause a recall. Then you run E85 in it and it has to pump 30% more gas. And then we have pump failures lol.

The situation I recall recently was my friends Suburban that was running E85 died, then we replaced it and it died again lol. He switched to E10 and the fuel pump has been fine so far. The rest of the vehicle has not, but that's a story for another time lol. And yes, it was a "flex fuel vehicle"

 

[art miller]

I stopped buying Big Three manufactured vehicles in 1971 when I bought a Toyota Celina. Over the next 52 years I have owned only Japanese vehicles,Toyota, Nissan, Yamaha and Lexus vehicles. Never have I had to replace a fuel pump. I have never used E85 fuel. The highest mileage on any of those vehicle while in my possession was 132,000 miles.

The ethanol in our fuel supply is northing more than virtue signaling and pandering to the corn growers. That is my opinion.

 

[an-guy]

I stopped buying Big Three manufactured vehicles in 1971 when I bought a Toyota Celina. Over the next 52 years I have owned only Japanese vehicles,Toyota, Nissan, Yamaha and Lexus vehicles. Never have I had to replace a fuel pump. I have never used E85 fuel. The highest mileage on any of those vehicle while in my possession was 132,000 miles.

The ethanol in our fuel supply is northing more than virtue signaling and pandering to the corn growers. That is my opinion.

Yeah... I've always owned Japanese vehicles. Toyota, Honda, Kawasaki, and now Yamaha. I almost purchased a silverado a couple years ago and holy crap I am glad it didn't. Looking back, that thing needed thousands of dollars in repairs... I love hanging out with my Harley riding friends, but that's because they're good people and we can joke around. I wouldn't own a Harley, they wouldn't own a "crotch rocket" lmao.

 

[rbentnail]

I stopped buying Big Three manufactured vehicles in 1971 when I bought a Toyota Celina. Over the next 52 years I have owned only Japanese vehicles,Toyota, Nissan, Yamaha and Lexus vehicles. Never have I had to replace a fuel pump. I have never used E85 fuel. The highest mileage on any of those vehicle while in my possession was 132,000 miles.

The ethanol in our fuel supply is northing more than virtue signaling and pandering to the corn growers. That is my opinion.

I've owned a couple Nissans but mostly American. I had my purchased-new 2001 F150 for 10yrs and traveled 221,xxx miles. When I sold it everything except normal wear parts were factory. I replaced nothing- no alternator, water pump, hoses, bearings, switches- nothing. No rust anywhere to be found. I never used E85 or even E15, E10 unleaded 87 for the life of the vehicle. I'm now driving a 2013 F150, 113,xxx miles, same thing except I preemptively repaired 2 things myself before they became a problem. Took a total of about 4 hrs of my life.

 

[harper]

From my owner's manual:

"Gasohol containing
ethanol can be used if the ethanol content
does not exceed 10% (E10)."

That's odd. In my 2006 owner's manual and my 2006-2007 service manual the only entry I see is "unleaded fuel only" with no reference to minimum octane rating or maximum ethanol content. Where was that entry in your owner's manual and for which year?

 

[RossKean]

That's odd. In my 2006 owner's manual and my 2006-2007 service manual the only entry I see is "unleaded fuel only" with no reference to minimum octane rating or maximum ethanol content. Where was that entry in your owner's manual and for which year?

From my Canadian 2011 manual. Here is a screenshot of the relevant page. Essentially the same in my 2007 manual.
The quoted excerpt is under the Gasohol heading...

 

[harper]

Found it. It's p 3-13, 3-14 in the Operation and Controls section of the 2006 Owner's manual. Not in the Specifications section. Not in the 2006-2007 service manual at all as far as I can tell.

 

[RossKean]

Found it. It's p 3-13, 3-14 in the Operation and Controls section of the 2006 Owner's manual. Not in the Specifications section. Not in the 2006-2007 service manual at all as far as I can tell.

I didn't look for it in my service manual. Yes, in the owner's manual, it is in the section on "Fuel", not in "Specifications". Octane requirement is there as well.

 

[torch]

For the record that comment was equal parts a knock towards E85 and most of the American vehicles that just don't have very good quality parts.

Ok, since we are wandering off topic a bit here:

An interesting study published on ieecars.com looked at the cost of various vehicles based on purchase price and reliability to rank them by cost of ownership per mile for the remaining estimated lifespan. While foreign marks did tend to dominate the lists, the number one pick was a 10 year old Chevy Impala. The Ford Fusion, Dodge Grand Caravan and Ford Expedition all made the cut as well. Even the Suburban ranked well when looking at SUVs.

In the truck-specific category, while the Honda Ridgeline led the pack, both the Chevy Colorado and Chevy Silverado ranked reasonably well, scoring above the average.

Personally, I have a 2006 Chevy Impala and a 2004 Chevy Avalanche (kind of a cross between the Suburban and Silverado). I've found them to be reliable if the maintenance is kept up; parts are plentiful and comparatively cheap, with both OEM and aftermarket options for darn near anything. And they are generally not too difficult to wrench on, with a minimum of special tools required.