FJRF009.1: Intermittent Ground Wire

[bucky]

Just wondering what sort of compensation Yamaha will offer to those who made fixes proactively or after the fact while out of warranty on their own dime.

 

[Woketman]

Does the square root of zero sound about right????

 

[majicmaker]

This is The Best F@#King Forum EVER!! :yahoo:

Dude, where the hell YOU been?????

We need to go riding! (once it cools off a bit and stops raining!)

Traveling my ass off busy as Hell. All the Airplanes are Flying again. Thank God!! Hell Yeah we need to go ride! :clapping:

Give me a Holla when ever you're ready. How's that Rear Tire Treating you? You're right about the Heat but, I have some neat

Hot weather gear that'll keep me Cool.

 

[majicmaker]

Just wondering what sort of compensation Yamaha will offer to those who made fixes proactively or after the fact while out of warranty on their own dime.

I agree with Woketman, Good Luck with That!

 

[Monty]

This is The Best F@#King Forum EVER!! :yahoo:

Dude, where the hell YOU been?????

We need to go riding! (once it cools off a bit and stops raining!)

Amen, let's ride. :yahoo:

 

[FarWestFastEddie]

.. from their teeny 20 (?) gauge wires that become overburdened. ...

If the wire gauge was the problem, the wires would be heating up inside the loom where they are even less cooled than when exposed to the air near the connectors. The wire only burns when the spider contact gets hot and then only with conducted heat from the spider.Whether or not the insulation actually bursts into flames I don't know, but if it did it would increase the damage to the wire. BUT ONLY NEAR THE SPIDER.
Of course, once the wire is burnt, it will be thinner, its resistance will go up, it will start self heating. But only after the damage has been done.

MCATrophy,

The reason wires get hot is resistance, there is no resistance in the wire in the loom, the resistance builds in areas of of corrosion near the spider connections, the ends of copper wire transfer heat better than the steel connections, as the heat rises, more corrosion builds up to the point of failure. One of the issues is clean contact avoiding oxygen and other contaminants. Die Electric Silicon Grease at these connections will insure protection against atmospheric contamination.

FWFE

And thanks to all whose effort has not gone unnoticed.

 

[bigjimbiker]

Does the square root of zero sound about right????

How about the square root of -1 ?...

 

[SkooterG]

One of the issues is clean contact avoiding oxygen and other contaminants. Die Electric Silicon Grease at these connections will insure protection against atmospheric contamination.

I believe at least one Ground Spider failure was reported by an owner some miles after he took the time to inspect and clean all ground spiders and they pack with di-electric grease upon re-assembly.

 

[FarWestFastEddie]

SkooterG,

An excellent point, the next weak spot in the connenction would be the "dry" crimp on the Steel wire connectors, Bi-metal connection. In wiring all my electronics on my Striper, used in sea water, the worst possible atmosphere for electrical connections, I have used various die electric grease with great success.Important during termination, taking care to dip each wire into the insulation to insure an atmospheric seal. On my own FJR, during my install of the AVCC, I chased and lubed the spiders. It only made sense.

FWFE

 

[mcatrophy]

.. from their teeny 20 (?) gauge wires that become overburdened. ...

If the wire gauge was the problem, the wires would be heating up inside the loom where they are even less cooled than when exposed to the air near the connectors. The wire only burns when the spider contact gets hot and then only with conducted heat from the spider.Whether or not the insulation actually bursts into flames I don't know, but if it did it would increase the damage to the wire. BUT ONLY NEAR THE SPIDER.
Of course, once the wire is burnt, it will be thinner, its resistance will go up, it will start self heating. But only after the damage has been done.

MCATrophy,

The reason wires get hot is resistance, there is no resistance in the wire in the loom, the resistance builds in areas of of corrosion near the spider connections, the ends of copper wire transfer heat better than the steel connections, as the heat rises, more corrosion builds up to the point of failure. One of the issues is clean contact avoiding oxygen and other contaminants. Die Electric Silicon Grease at these connections will insure protection against atmospheric contamination.

FWFE

And thanks to all whose effort has not gone unnoticed.

I think we are in total agreeement, that the initial problem is the connector, not the wire.

For the record, all wire has some resistance*, hence the concern of RaYzerman19 and others that it might not be thick enough.

* Unless we get superconducting looms, but I think that might be a few years off. 'Cept maybe in the north of Canada

.

 

[stevec677]

What's a spider and why are they in my bike?

 

[ionbeam]

What's a spider and why are they in my bike?

All the following pictures are stolen from dcarver without his knowledge or consent. But damn, he did such a good job.

Here is a short review of the situation. Yamaha engineering used a method that is now common industry wide to ground multiple items through one connector. The FJR has at least eight ground connectors for main grounding and other ground connectors for ECU reference voltages. Most new Power Sport vehicles share this method of grounding.

Good grounding connectors wear black insulating caps and look like this:

With the black cap removed you can see the 6 prong shorting clip that jumpers all 6 pins together.

Top view showing the shorting clip.

This shot shows the 6 pin leg shorting clip. Someone that was not an entomologist dubbed the clip to be a spider due to the body and 'legs'. Note that the term SPIDER is something made up here on the Forum, Yamaha has no clue what a spider is.

When the connector and shorting clip get excessively hot the connector body, wires and cap melt causing the grounds to become ungrounded. How friggin hot do these parts need to get to melt like this?

dcarver supplies X's and O's to diagram his electrical catastrophe.

:dribble:

 

[bigjimbiker]

Great post...thanks :yahoo:

 

[stevec677]

Thanks for the excellent responce, but now I'm worried about a failure. Sometimes it's better to be in the dark.

 

[RadioHowie]

Sometimes it's better to be in the dark.

Ignore the issue and you WILL be in the dark....at 60mph on an unlit backroad.

 

[EMetz1300]

Does registered owner mean via their web site or dealer? For all used bike buyers...this is need to know!

 

[EMetz1300]

Does registered owners mean via web site or dealer? Used bike owners will need to know!

 

[ionbeam]

If you purchased your new or used FJR from a dealer you are registered. If you own a used FJR and had it serviced by a dealer you should be registered. With a quick phone call to any Yamaha service desk they can check to see if you are registered. If your FJR is not registered the dealer can register you in the Big Komputer. Your other choice is to call the mother ship in Cypress, CA and register with them.

Yamaha Motor Corporation, USA

6555 Katella Avenue

Cypress, CA 90630

Customer Relations

(800) 962-7926

 

[extrememarine]

Once the recall bulletin hits the dealerships, all you will have to do is go into your shop of choice, and they will be able to look up applicable recalls via you vin. it's how I got the TPS recall done on my '04 (which I purchased used via a private sale); it was not done initially by previous owner, but I took it in when it started to malfunction.

 

[MartyA]

One of the issues is clean contact avoiding oxygen and other contaminants. Die Electric Silicon Grease at these connections will insure protection against atmospheric contamination.

I believe at least one Ground Spider failure was reported by an owner some miles after he took the time to inspect and clean all ground spiders and they pack with di-electric grease upon re-assembly.

That was me. I made it to Yellowstone from PA and there I sat, in Tower Falls parking lot, funny dash lights and too silent. I think it was 3 weeks from dielectric grease to cooked spider. The rubber cap was slightly bubbled, and the one spider leg was brown-ish colored. I think all the dielectric grease did was help keep the heat down, the metal to metal contact was still oxidized. I cleaned the spider, put it back in, and nothing happened. I even swapped a spider for a spider. That worked, and I rode 1/2 mile and S4 fried again! Managed a U-turn while stalled and coasted the 1/2 mile back down the hill to Tower Falls parking lot. $1200 towing later I am at my hotel in Cody.

I think I might ignore the recall letter when it gets here. I left photo instructions with my dealer when I eventually towed the bike back to PA. Three days later I stopped in and he still needed me to show him what the problem was. He replaced both front AND rear looms, and installed roadrunner's harness. If, and I say IF, the recall is something like roadrunner says, I might let the dealer do the fix, but I will be there when he does.

Hopefully the recall happens, it reaches everyone, it all works out, and the problem becomes history.

Thanks to all who worked this problem.