Fencer
Why yes, I am a Smart ASS
We have now made it to the Dept of Public Safety for "Study and Review"
:yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:
:yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:
Lane Splitting Bill! I need input!
- Thread starter Fencer
- Start date
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03HiYoSilver
Well-known member
you mean like the long, lamentably-lost "reasonable and prudent" speed limit laws in Montana? it sure made sense to everyone but the joker who took it as permission to do 120mph through town and challenge the laws "vagueness" all the way to the Supreme Court. sadly we now see that wonderful state posting speed limit signs.
Fencer
Why yes, I am a Smart ASS
So That I stay on the minds of those who can, I sent a follow up letter:
Gentlemen,
It has been a few months since I first proposed this idea to you, and you received me with an open mind. The responses were that you would look into it (the idea of lane sharing) and possibly have the matter studied.
In an effort to help with the study of the safety of this practice, here are a few areas to start:
The following is taken from The Motorcycle Safety Foundation
https://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/ped...torcycle51.html
A motorcycle’s narrow width can allow it to pass between lanes of stopped or slow-moving cars on roadways where the lanes are wide enough to offer an adequate gap. This option can provide an escape route for motorcyclists who would otherwise be trapped or struck from behind. There is evidence (Hurt, 1981) that traveling between lanes of stopped or slow-moving cars (i.e., lane splitting) on multiple-lane roads (such as interstate highways) slightly reduces crash frequency compared with staying within the lane and moving with other traffic.
Taken from: European and Australian records
https://www.bikeraware.com/images/scen_docs...20Splitting.doc
In 2004, the results of the first complete European study of P2W accidents was
released by the Association of European Motorcycle Manufacturers (ACEM) with support from the European Commission, Director General of Transportation and Energy, Police, other government and medical agencies5. The Motorcycle Accident In- Depth Study (MAIDS) aimed to understand the nature and causes of P2W accidents and ran from 1999-2000 in five sampling areas located in France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, and Spain. For consistency, methodology was based on one developed by the Organization of Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). 921 accidents were examined and showed around 2000 variables including human, environmental and vehicle factors.
Most of the accidents were founded on human error, the most common being a failure to see the P2W in traffic. While in 37% of cases the primary contributing factor was human error from the P2W rider, 50% of cases showed the primary accident contributor came from car driver error. Over 70% of car driver errors were due to failure to perceive the P2W. Hence being conspicuous is the prime factor in accidents as opposed to filtering activity.
Previous research from the American Hurt report6 confirms the current European findings. In multiple vehicle accidents, the driver of the other vehicle (mostly passenger cars), was found to violate the motorcyclists right of way and was responsible for causing two thirds of all motorcycle accidents. Thus, motorist failure to recognize motorcycles in traffic is the dominant cause of motorcycle accidents.
The highly regarded Hurt research also verifies higher safety levels for motorcyclists who are able to traffic filter.
…….
VACC believe motorcycles should be able to move freely in a traffic lane as part of a low risk safety measure. For example, moving to the front of a traffic queue enables a motorcyclist to avoid rear end collisions safely, as traffic is moving in the same direction.
Furthermore, being unable to filter means a motorcycle would potentially contribute to greater congestion problems rather than responding to congestion reduction.
Not Scientific but…
https://2wheeledtn.blogspot.com/
I had called USC's Accident Research Department to talk to Dave Thom about helmets, but Harry Hurt answered the phone. Hurt, the lead author of the famous "Hurt Report" about the causes of motorcycle accidents, is arguably the most knowledgeable expert in the area of motorcycle safety and always fascinating to talk to.
Today, however, the news wasn't pleasant. Hurt had been rear-ended and had required surgery on his neck. His brand new truck suffered major damage too. "The stupid part," said Hurt, "was that if I'd been on a motorcycle, I wouldn't have had the accident. I would have split lanes and never gotten hit."
Everyone recognizes that lane-splitting is a way for motorcyclists to save time, which may be why car-bound motorists sometimes resent it. In its defense, lane-splitting also reduces congestion and actually helps everyone get there sooner. In effect, it creates an extra lane. That "motorcycle-only lane" can, as Hurt points out, get you away from the antics of cars, which tend to be most violent at the back of the line. I was originally a reluctant lane-splitter myself, but after diving between lanes to escape screeching cars coming up behind me three times in a single ride, I decided that perhaps there was a cosmic message in there somewhere. That was 25 years ago, and I have been lane-splitting, mostly on a non-emergency basis, almost every day since.
The knee-jerk reaction to lane-splitting for most people is that it's dangerous. In fact, Hurt and his fellow researchers discovered that, if anything, it's actually slightly safer than staying in the lane in heavy, crawling traffic. Hurt theorizes that this is because motorcyclists have an easier time steering around threats than stopping frequently.
Washington Law
https://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/newsandup..._splitting_law/
Thank you for you time on this matter and I look forward to hearing from you,
Gentlemen,
It has been a few months since I first proposed this idea to you, and you received me with an open mind. The responses were that you would look into it (the idea of lane sharing) and possibly have the matter studied.
In an effort to help with the study of the safety of this practice, here are a few areas to start:
The following is taken from The Motorcycle Safety Foundation
https://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/ped...torcycle51.html
A motorcycle’s narrow width can allow it to pass between lanes of stopped or slow-moving cars on roadways where the lanes are wide enough to offer an adequate gap. This option can provide an escape route for motorcyclists who would otherwise be trapped or struck from behind. There is evidence (Hurt, 1981) that traveling between lanes of stopped or slow-moving cars (i.e., lane splitting) on multiple-lane roads (such as interstate highways) slightly reduces crash frequency compared with staying within the lane and moving with other traffic.
Taken from: European and Australian records
https://www.bikeraware.com/images/scen_docs...20Splitting.doc
In 2004, the results of the first complete European study of P2W accidents was
released by the Association of European Motorcycle Manufacturers (ACEM) with support from the European Commission, Director General of Transportation and Energy, Police, other government and medical agencies5. The Motorcycle Accident In- Depth Study (MAIDS) aimed to understand the nature and causes of P2W accidents and ran from 1999-2000 in five sampling areas located in France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, and Spain. For consistency, methodology was based on one developed by the Organization of Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). 921 accidents were examined and showed around 2000 variables including human, environmental and vehicle factors.
Most of the accidents were founded on human error, the most common being a failure to see the P2W in traffic. While in 37% of cases the primary contributing factor was human error from the P2W rider, 50% of cases showed the primary accident contributor came from car driver error. Over 70% of car driver errors were due to failure to perceive the P2W. Hence being conspicuous is the prime factor in accidents as opposed to filtering activity.
Previous research from the American Hurt report6 confirms the current European findings. In multiple vehicle accidents, the driver of the other vehicle (mostly passenger cars), was found to violate the motorcyclists right of way and was responsible for causing two thirds of all motorcycle accidents. Thus, motorist failure to recognize motorcycles in traffic is the dominant cause of motorcycle accidents.
The highly regarded Hurt research also verifies higher safety levels for motorcyclists who are able to traffic filter.
…….
VACC believe motorcycles should be able to move freely in a traffic lane as part of a low risk safety measure. For example, moving to the front of a traffic queue enables a motorcyclist to avoid rear end collisions safely, as traffic is moving in the same direction.
Furthermore, being unable to filter means a motorcycle would potentially contribute to greater congestion problems rather than responding to congestion reduction.
Not Scientific but…
https://2wheeledtn.blogspot.com/
I had called USC's Accident Research Department to talk to Dave Thom about helmets, but Harry Hurt answered the phone. Hurt, the lead author of the famous "Hurt Report" about the causes of motorcycle accidents, is arguably the most knowledgeable expert in the area of motorcycle safety and always fascinating to talk to.
Today, however, the news wasn't pleasant. Hurt had been rear-ended and had required surgery on his neck. His brand new truck suffered major damage too. "The stupid part," said Hurt, "was that if I'd been on a motorcycle, I wouldn't have had the accident. I would have split lanes and never gotten hit."
Everyone recognizes that lane-splitting is a way for motorcyclists to save time, which may be why car-bound motorists sometimes resent it. In its defense, lane-splitting also reduces congestion and actually helps everyone get there sooner. In effect, it creates an extra lane. That "motorcycle-only lane" can, as Hurt points out, get you away from the antics of cars, which tend to be most violent at the back of the line. I was originally a reluctant lane-splitter myself, but after diving between lanes to escape screeching cars coming up behind me three times in a single ride, I decided that perhaps there was a cosmic message in there somewhere. That was 25 years ago, and I have been lane-splitting, mostly on a non-emergency basis, almost every day since.
The knee-jerk reaction to lane-splitting for most people is that it's dangerous. In fact, Hurt and his fellow researchers discovered that, if anything, it's actually slightly safer than staying in the lane in heavy, crawling traffic. Hurt theorizes that this is because motorcyclists have an easier time steering around threats than stopping frequently.
Washington Law
https://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/newsandup..._splitting_law/
Thank you for you time on this matter and I look forward to hearing from you,
Fencer
Why yes, I am a Smart ASS
Dayum,
I got a fast reply:
Kevin, I know we discussed this before but considering the amount of opposition we have heard from some many people to this, is there another state statute we can look at and work from? Just trying to find out who has already this law on the books so we can show it to others and them know that this is not some foreign concept. Thanks for forwarding the information to me.
So I responded:
Rep Ward,
Unfortunately, the answer in short is no. The practice IS legal in California (has been for decades), but there is no specific law that allows it. I sent the link for the proposed law in Washington State with the last letter. I believe there is a proposed law in Texas as well. The practice is legal in Europe, Japan, Australia, and other foreign nations. I know California is a foreign concept to most of use here in the south.
But, as Alabama is trying to attract more foreign nations to build here, Mercedes, Kia, Honda, and the ThyssenKrupp steel plant to name a few, why not show them a little forward thinking in the attraction process.
What is the opposition you have heard? Do the studies I have referenced support or refute the opposition?
Alabama does not always have to be a follower, why not be a leader and let others come behind us? Do you always want to be chasing Atlanta?
Thank you for such a fast reply,
I got a fast reply:
Kevin, I know we discussed this before but considering the amount of opposition we have heard from some many people to this, is there another state statute we can look at and work from? Just trying to find out who has already this law on the books so we can show it to others and them know that this is not some foreign concept. Thanks for forwarding the information to me.
So I responded:
Rep Ward,
Unfortunately, the answer in short is no. The practice IS legal in California (has been for decades), but there is no specific law that allows it. I sent the link for the proposed law in Washington State with the last letter. I believe there is a proposed law in Texas as well. The practice is legal in Europe, Japan, Australia, and other foreign nations. I know California is a foreign concept to most of use here in the south.
But, as Alabama is trying to attract more foreign nations to build here, Mercedes, Kia, Honda, and the ThyssenKrupp steel plant to name a few, why not show them a little forward thinking in the attraction process.
What is the opposition you have heard? Do the studies I have referenced support or refute the opposition?
Alabama does not always have to be a follower, why not be a leader and let others come behind us? Do you always want to be chasing Atlanta?
Thank you for such a fast reply,
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Get a representative from the CHP to write you an opion to present to your lawmaker. Contact Friction Zone magazine. The have a CHP Editor on staff:
https://www.friction-zone.com/
In fact, that might be a good place to start a public discussion for you as they now have an East Coast edition.
https://www.friction-zone.com/
In fact, that might be a good place to start a public discussion for you as they now have an East Coast edition.
Fencer
Why yes, I am a Smart ASS
And Another fast reply: Give the Rep credit. He gets back to you!!!
Yes, the data you shared with me does help out and I will share it with others. I think the key to your effort being successful will be to educate people who are non-riders. I didn't find a single person in the legislature who supported this measure and most people asked is this being done somewhere else so we can see how it is working. I asked a number of people in the law enforcement community about it and to a person everyone from the state police, county sheriff's office and local law enforcement said I was crazy for pushing such and issue. I think the biggest issue and you have pointed this out in some of your links to me, is the need to educate more people in the state as to why this will actually make our road ways safer. Most people in Alabama who do not ride motorcycles just think this will be chaos on the road ways. While that may not be the case at all this is still what the mind set is out there and that mind set has to be sold on the benefits of such a change in the law before they will support it.
While I think being progressive in our way of thinking I don't think this argument will win supporters for your cause in this case mainly because most people will not view this change in the law as improving our image somehow to the world. I think the key for you will be to organize a group of like minded citizens and make a full court press in getting your information and interests in change out to the media and the law makers. This will create the kind of grassroots support to enact the kind of changes you are looking for.
I hope all of this candid talk is helpful. Feel free to let me know if there is anything else that you would like to discuss regarding this issue or anything else.
Yes, the data you shared with me does help out and I will share it with others. I think the key to your effort being successful will be to educate people who are non-riders. I didn't find a single person in the legislature who supported this measure and most people asked is this being done somewhere else so we can see how it is working. I asked a number of people in the law enforcement community about it and to a person everyone from the state police, county sheriff's office and local law enforcement said I was crazy for pushing such and issue. I think the biggest issue and you have pointed this out in some of your links to me, is the need to educate more people in the state as to why this will actually make our road ways safer. Most people in Alabama who do not ride motorcycles just think this will be chaos on the road ways. While that may not be the case at all this is still what the mind set is out there and that mind set has to be sold on the benefits of such a change in the law before they will support it.
While I think being progressive in our way of thinking I don't think this argument will win supporters for your cause in this case mainly because most people will not view this change in the law as improving our image somehow to the world. I think the key for you will be to organize a group of like minded citizens and make a full court press in getting your information and interests in change out to the media and the law makers. This will create the kind of grassroots support to enact the kind of changes you are looking for.
I hope all of this candid talk is helpful. Feel free to let me know if there is anything else that you would like to discuss regarding this issue or anything else.
Fencer
Why yes, I am a Smart ASS
Done!
Thanks
Edit*****
Hey TWN.
Props to a good mag there.
The editor has already responded (less than 2 hours) and says she will pass along to the CHP contact
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Jaycen
Well-known member
sorry, I'm against itI sent a letter to my State Rep and now have his ear!
His Response
What I NEED from you guys.
Videos of SAFE lane Splitting (ie proof it works) JB sorry man your out.
Help finding the # of registered bikes in Alabama vs Cars. I googled but I guess not the right thing.
Some crib notes of FACTs on lane splitting and its positive effects.
A Devils Advocate of what objections may be and a rebutal for each.
Any other help (apart from TWN's hookers) you can think of.
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Most morons are.
Seriously, it's a matter of safety. Having been sharing lanes for 10 years it has become akin to putting on my helmet or strapping in with seat belts. I would no sooner jump on the bike without a helmet than I would sit in traffic dancing the Conga. It's that much safer for riders.Edit: Quoting problem gone... :huh:
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Fencer
Why yes, I am a Smart ASS
Thats nice.
Then don't do it. No one will make you.
But give those of use who are not against it the opportunity.
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madmike2
Shtirrenuppenmeister
That's not what this thread is about, and neither is a debate or argument based on opinions. The man is looking for facts. As with all freedoms, should this law pass in Alabama (or Maine, or Florida, or even Mass.) nobody would force you to use it.
Kevin, it sounds to me like he wants some grassroot effort that he can use as pressure to make the case in the legislature. You might try a non-binding petition signed by motorcyclists from different counties. Maybe you could get the AMA to help or get ahold of clubs. Perhaps dealers would allow you to post the petition for their customers to sign, or let you post a letter of intent with your email or post office box listed. As with all efforts, the beginning will likely be bleak but as it gains momentum more would "get on board".
You'd want to include all types of motorcycles (cruisers, tourers, etc.) and maybe put a space for "age" so that the lawmakers could see that it wasn't only "kids" who want to save the environment (gasoline & oil products) by using their bikes, alleviate congestion and be safer in stop-and-go traffic.
I feel for you having to ride in the traffic in Alabama...hot and humid! At least we have low humidity to go with our 100+ degrees and NOT sitting in stop-and-go traffic snarls for 45 min-1hr just to ride 20 miles home from work.
Keep working at this and keep us updated.
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twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
Kate? Yeah, she's a great gal. Very forward thinking. Good luck. I wish you great success. This practice should be nationwide.
Fencer
Why yes, I am a Smart ASS
Kevin Daly
YES I ran the fatty over!!
Fencer,
look to Europe too. most contries (i believe) alow white lining, it is aslo discussed in David Hough's book "Profecient motorcycling"
look to Europe too. most contries (i believe) alow white lining, it is aslo discussed in David Hough's book "Profecient motorcycling"
twowheelnut
R.I.P. Our Motorcycling Friend
D'oh! Kate is her partner. I meant Amy, but Kate's a great gal, too (how can a gal who rides and FJR (Amy) and one who rides a VFR750 (Kate) not be cool?!).
Ric in Sac
Well-known member
Key buzz words to support lane sharing:
(1) Increases highway capacity and would encourage others to ride as well; This in turn,
(2) Reduces fuel consumption and greenhouse gasses;
(3) Increases rider health and safety (It is safer, believe it or not). Furthermore, it is unhealthy for riders to be sitting out in 90+ degree sweltering heat breathing CO and CO2. They need to keep MOVING. The same is true for rain and other inclement weather.
(4) It is bad for motorcycle equipment to SIT in traffic, especially the air cooled models;
(5) Reduces parking congestion in city areas.
(1) Increases highway capacity and would encourage others to ride as well; This in turn,
(2) Reduces fuel consumption and greenhouse gasses;
(3) Increases rider health and safety (It is safer, believe it or not). Furthermore, it is unhealthy for riders to be sitting out in 90+ degree sweltering heat breathing CO and CO2. They need to keep MOVING. The same is true for rain and other inclement weather.
(4) It is bad for motorcycle equipment to SIT in traffic, especially the air cooled models;
(5) Reduces parking congestion in city areas.
Inlaw1
Well-known member
These are some of the main education points you need to press. While grass roots support through petitions of motorcyclist's will certainly be needed, I think your representative wants you to grass roots some support for educating those that are in positions to stop such a law before it can get off the ground, the positive side of such a law.
That would be local Sheriffs / Police Chiefs, or their own Associations, the State police and other law makers whom haven't a clue as to the whys of such a law. If you want ANY chance of passing such a foreign concept to those that don't even understand motorcycles let alone why this may be a good law, your going to have to educate them first.
Fencer
Why yes, I am a Smart ASS
Rep Ward.
My workload is starting to slow a little so I can work towards personal projects a little more now. If you could, give me some guidance in the “Grass Roots” effort you would like to see.
Do you want: Petitions? Media Coverage? Rallies? Etc.
What would you consider a full court press?
Please be candid, as I am usually blunt and to the point.
Thank you again for the MDA Donation. I was able to raise $690.
His reply:
Also, While I was "in jail for MDA" at the local Harley dealer. I made a contact to try to get some the Harley chapters together to try to get the word out to the legislators and they will (hopefully) read this thread and the links in it so we can get the ball rolling (faster)
I posted earlier that we made it to Dept of Public Safety for review. But at this time, I feel that was a fasle statement, given the comments since the posting.
If you are in Alabama, contact your local REP or Senator about Lane Sharing www.legislature.state.al.us. .
My workload is starting to slow a little so I can work towards personal projects a little more now. If you could, give me some guidance in the “Grass Roots” effort you would like to see.
Do you want: Petitions? Media Coverage? Rallies? Etc.
What would you consider a full court press?
Please be candid, as I am usually blunt and to the point.
Thank you again for the MDA Donation. I was able to raise $690.
His reply:
I also called the AMA today to get their contact for my area. But today was the annual picnic, so he was not in. I am awaiting a call back.
Also, While I was "in jail for MDA" at the local Harley dealer. I made a contact to try to get some the Harley chapters together to try to get the word out to the legislators and they will (hopefully) read this thread and the links in it so we can get the ball rolling (faster)
I posted earlier that we made it to Dept of Public Safety for review. But at this time, I feel that was a fasle statement, given the comments since the posting.
If you are in Alabama, contact your local REP or Senator about Lane Sharing www.legislature.state.al.us. .
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Thug
A shy retiring flower in a Thug's exterior
Good job Fencer!
You may also want to look at the video shot lat last year in Melbourne Aussie) on one of the freeways when the ADR tried to change the law to make it illegal to lane split. About 200 motorcyclists rode as if they were cars and it caused fucking havoc!!! You should have seen what some of the cagers were doing!! Passing in emergency lanes at high speeds being unbelievingly aggressive to the riders! It made great pictorial viewing and made the point crystal clear...lane splitting is good! I'll see if I can find a link for the video or even the file.
Cheers and good luck. OH and the use of Foreign material...Australia Foreign? the same Australia who has been beside you yanks through all the wars in the last 100 years or so Foreign??? Foreign!! Is that how were viewed? That's lovely that is.... :fuck:
You may also want to look at the video shot lat last year in Melbourne Aussie) on one of the freeways when the ADR tried to change the law to make it illegal to lane split. About 200 motorcyclists rode as if they were cars and it caused fucking havoc!!! You should have seen what some of the cagers were doing!! Passing in emergency lanes at high speeds being unbelievingly aggressive to the riders! It made great pictorial viewing and made the point crystal clear...lane splitting is good! I'll see if I can find a link for the video or even the file.
Cheers and good luck. OH and the use of Foreign material...Australia Foreign? the same Australia who has been beside you yanks through all the wars in the last 100 years or so Foreign??? Foreign!! Is that how were viewed? That's lovely that is.... :fuck:
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