Need help with brake testing 06-07

[Joe R]

This is what we've found strange, it could be as they say part of the "beast", we know that in many automotive owner's manuals they suggest NOT double pump brake systems.

This is what I ask some of the guys re-do:

-Get on the bike up to speed, 40 to 50 miles per hour. On a straight line PLEASE.

-Pull in the clutch, Get on the front brakes (not the rear) as if a deer was crossing the road ahead of you ( not softly), release front brake lever and quickly get on it again immediately as if the doe was now crossing the road... This would replicate a double pump and the front end shakes a bit and slows down again with lots of front end dive.

Be careful because that second brake application slows the bike down quickly and an inexperienced rider can get caught slowing down too fast....

The goal with this : Since we are testing the hoses installed on the 2007 from (Joe) and we find that when getting on the brakes hard the second time around slows us down but with a bit more shaking and not as smoothly as the first time around, we want to know if this is just the nature of the brake system or if we need to chase the problem further.

Anyone can call me if they have any questions on the fell / test we are getting . Thus far 2 different experienced riders have tested the bike and we fell the exact same thing, it does stop and it does make you aware that the ABS is on and slowing you down....

Please make that anyone doing this test understands they are doing this on their own will and they should be very very careful.

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[Cdogman]

I dont have to double pump to replicate that

I pratice panic stops (since I have no life outside of work and riding and I think it is fun) / you wanna know what the ABS feels like w/out double pump... Squeeze a little to settle the bike for just a microsecond, then NAIL IT (with feeling!!!!!). and trust Mr. ABS Meet Mr Shimmy and shake ... very time.... Sumbitch will stop in a hurry tho. Wanna duplicate it w/o risk )requires more trust) do it on grass.. ...(have the cold beer ready for the nerves after) Still rock solid,,, but massive shake and pulsing

YMMV

Cdog

 

[ELP_JC]

Your answer is: linked brakes. I experienced just what you described on TWO demo bikes, practically new (A and AE). I applied the rear brake at the same time, and shaking was gone. Bottom line is the front brakes are unbalanced when just operating the front lever, and they'll behave that way during hard braking. That was the reason which prompted me to inquire about a de-linking, but turned out to be too complicated, so using both brakes is the solution. Take care.

JC

 

[Cdogman]

Your answer is: linked brakes. I experienced just what you described on TWO demo bikes, practically new (A and AE). I applied the rear brake at the same time, and shaking was gone. Bottom line is the front brakes are unbalanced when just operating the front lever, and they'll behave that way during hard braking. That was the reason which prompted me to inquire about a de-linking, but turned out to be too complicated, so using both brakes is the solution. Take care.JC

Notice I dont explain it. I just tell how I duplicate it. the answer could be as simple as a warped rotor, cerebrial palsy, or poor form, or a milliom other reaosns. Dont be to narrow when trying to solve a problem to prove your view correct. Solving the problem is the goal, not being right!

You just proved that not doing it MY way for YOUR bike does not duplicate it. that is all

 

[Joe R]

I will be meeting with the people from Galfer tomorrow to see what can be sorted out. I will let them see what you all have written and go from there. Thanks for the input.

 

[sprint_st]

Your answer is: linked brakes. I experienced just what you described on TWO demo bikes, practically new (A and AE). I applied the rear brake at the same time, and shaking was gone. Bottom line is the front brakes are unbalanced when just operating the front lever, and they'll behave that way during hard braking. That was the reason which prompted me to inquire about a de-linking, but turned out to be too complicated, so using both brakes is the solution. Take care.JC

I'm not sure I fully understand the Joe_R procedure but I believe JC you are right. I'm pretty hard on brakes but I use my brakes much differently than previous machines. The fronts alone are OK but front and rear is just WOW. I also use my rear a lot more in a trail braking situation. Quite frankly, I find them flat amazing at getting the job done with a totally safe feel.

 

[painman]

One does not have to look for issues with the FJR braking. There are none if operated properly, ie, use both brakes. This is not a zoomie track bike. PM. <><

 

[Joe R]

The whole braking situation came up when Galfer Brake Systems borrowed my bike to make stainless steel braided brake lines. They did the swap and during testing found the issue mentioned in the first post. The question is not about correct braking procedure but if someone were to brake hard on the front and release then brake hard again does the bike react akwardly? We should have tested the bike under different braking scenarios prior to making the swap. I will talk with them today and see what can be done. I will keep you guys posted.

 

[Cdogman]

oh OH oh TEST my BIke AND THEN PUT NEW STUFF ON IT FOR ME :drinks:

 

[Fencer]

OK Joe,

Just did it at 40mph, 50 mph and 70 mph. Clutch in, double pull on the front brake.

Result

Nose dive in all 3. No shake in all 3.

P.S. done hard enough to engage ABS

The nose dive prob means I need to tweek my front springs sommore.

As has been stated on this forum many o time. the bike (nature of the beast) has head shake in the 40-50 mph range IF you take your hands off the bars. Forum guidelines suggest to eliminate headshake at 40-50 mph DON"T LET GO OF THE BARS. But since you are clutching with one hand and breaking with the other, hands are (theoretically) on the bars. so you should not be getting the shake.

Another common suggestion is to re-torque the head bearings. try it.

Now for all my technical expertise and the dangers of a test rider (with hazard pay) I'll take a set of the Galfers (no Odot thats not GAYfers ) when the kinks get worked out

 

[weekend rider]

I think you are looking in the wrong area to solve your problem. Nothing wrong with your brakes nor the abs or uni-link.

Look at your action at what you are doing to the brakes which are controlled electronically. If this were the old manual vaccumn brakes there would be some concern. when you pull the brake lever you engage the electronic controll to squezze and release and it sends a signal back to the brake controler in a nano sec. than you re -squeeze the brake lever and you just repeat what you have already done. You most likely are feeling the pulsation from the brakes squeezing and releaseing against the rotor. Seems like the brakes are working correctly. I have an 05 and it does the same thing, and they have never failed me yet. Maybe you are still trying to compare the new with the old?

From my point of view you are trying to find an answer to a problem when there is not one..

happens all the time weekend rider

 

[Fencer]

I think you are looking in the wrong area to solve your problem. Nothing wrong with your brakes nor the abs or uni-link.

WR.

I don't think you understand. The are manufacturing NEW aftermarket brake lines and are running a test with the mock up lines.

They are trying to compare symptoms of the new mock up vs factory handling, not just saying I don't think my bike handles correctly.

 

[weekend rider]

That being the case, I am curious about Galfer brake lines . Do they have a UL listing for their product being tested by them?

weekend rider

 

[Fencer]

That being the case, I am curious about Galfer brake lines . Do they have a UL listing for their product being tested by them?
weekend rider

UL is for electronic items. these are IIRC stainless brake lines. It would not apply.

Also this is the mock or proto type lines he is asking about not (yet) the full production variety.

Keep up would ya?

 

[weekend rider]

I am already past you, I have no problems with my brakes and I do not have a company looking for a sales pitch using a private citizen to sell my product.

I will just keep on ridding , braking and ridding and braking and ridding and braking with no b problems and I will be doing this as I pass by :yahoo:

weekend rider

 

[weekend rider]

FJRFencer: UL test the following ,appliances, electrical, toys tools, virually all hard and soft line products,Ul global presence offers many services around the world for testing. I think brake lines would come under this heading.

weekend rider

Now who has to play keep up B)

 

[2WheelTiger]

Let's see, do your stock lines have a UL listing? Why are you being such an ass?

 

[weekend rider]

one because I can and no I am not being an ass and you are not my mother

It is just a friendly and funny tit for tat why are you getting in my business other than that it should be point or counter point interaction.

What is wrong with a little fun I am from CA. he is from AL. I could think of all kind of jokes but I have respect for him

this is only a fun conversation no harm no foul. What is the worst thing that can come out of this nothing maybe if I ever able to get to AL. to ride I deffinitely would looke him up so he would be able to see exactly he was conversaing with . Hope this kind of answer s your question

weekend rider I always try to be happy

 

[painman]

As I remember somewhere on the forum a discussion of the brake lines on the FJ and noted was the construction of the FJ's lines are so well built as in heavy duty is why you don't see folks running out and buying stainless lines. These are not the run of the mill lines that are weak and need to be upgraded. Just two peso's worth, now back to your regular program...PM. <><