Neutral Light

[donaldb]

Forum member bristercl's 05ABS is being stored at my shop bldg as he is temp. in an apartment and looking for a new house. He came over to ck on his bike yesterday and crank and ride it a bit and he made mention that his neutral light has a intermittent problem. There is no real pattern to it, it will stay on, then go off for a while, then back on for a while, sometimes for only a few seconds, other times longer. This all seems to be happening while at idle during the warm up period. We tinkered with the shift lever, but it seems to have no real affect, so we have deduced it must be a electrical issue. Has anyone else had this problem? and if so has it been corrected?? Please explain.

Suggestions anyone on where the likely culpret may ly so we can begin our search Thanx

 

[Thumperbike]

so we have deduced it must be a electrical issue.

Ya think?

Seriously, a loose wire making intermittent open/closed... somewhere.

 

[ionbeam]

Power for the neutral light comes from the windshield motor drive connector. The drive assembly gets power from the unswitched backup fuse and also gets switched ignition power from the motor drive fuse. The motor drive power goes directly to the neutral lamp in the meter assembly via a Br/R wire. The ground side of the neutral light goes to the starter enable diode assembly via a light green wire. The diode gets grounded through the neutral switch via a light blue wire. The diode must be grounded for the neutral lamp to illuminate.

The neutral switch diode sets one of the two conditions that must be met before the starter circuit is allowed to work. If the starter circuit always works with the side stand down and the clutch lever fully released the problem can't be the neutral switch or the diode assembly. This sends you to check the connector at the meter assembly and the connectors at the windshield motor drive unit. If there is stable +12V at the meter assembly’s Br/R wire the problem has to be the meter assembly, the connector at the diode assembly or a damaged light green wire.

:dribble:

 

[donaldb]

Power for the neutral light comes from the windshield motor drive connector. The drive assembly gets power from the unswitched backup fuse and also gets switched ignition power from the motor drive fuse. The motor drive power goes directly to the neutral lamp in the meter assembly via a Br/R wire. The ground side of the neutral light goes to the starter enable diode assembly via a light green wire. The diode gets grounded through the neutral switch via a light blue wire. The diode must be grounded for the neutral lamp to illuminate.
The neutral switch diode sets one of the two conditions that must be met before the starter circuit is allowed to work. If the starter circuit always works with the side stand down and the clutch lever fully released the problem can't be the neutral switch or the diode assembly. This sends you to check the connector at the meter assembly and the connectors at the windshield motor drive unit. If there is stable +12V at the meter assembly’s Br/R wire the problem has to be the meter assembly, the connector at the diode assembly or a damaged light green wire.

:dribble:

That's what I need to know!

THANKS!!

 

[aboopoo]

Power for the neutral light comes from the windshield motor drive connector. The drive assembly gets power from the unswitched backup fuse and also gets switched ignition power from the motor drive fuse. The motor drive power goes directly to the neutral lamp in the meter assembly via a Br/R wire. The ground side of the neutral light goes to the starter enable diode assembly via a light green wire. The diode gets grounded through the neutral switch via a light blue wire. The diode must be grounded for the neutral lamp to illuminate.
The neutral switch diode sets one of the two conditions that must be met before the starter circuit is allowed to work. If the starter circuit always works with the side stand down and the clutch lever fully released the problem can't be the neutral switch or the diode assembly. This sends you to check the connector at the meter assembly and the connectors at the windshield motor drive unit. If there is stable +12V at the meter assembly’s Br/R wire the problem has to be the meter assembly, the connector at the diode assembly or a damaged light green wire.

:dribble:

If my neutral light and windshield dont work,where should I look?By this description they share wiring. Can anyone tell me where the diode assembly can be located?

 

[RossKean]

Forum member bristercl's 05ABS is being stored at my shop bldg as he is temp. in an apartment and looking for a new house. He came over to ck on his bike yesterday and crank and ride it a bit and he made mention that his neutral light has a intermittent problem. There is no real pattern to it, it will stay on, then go off for a while, then back on for a while, sometimes for only a few seconds, other times longer. This all seems to be happening while at idle during the warm up period. We tinkered with the shift lever, but it seems to have no real affect, so we have deduced it must be a electrical issue. Has anyone else had this problem? and if so has it been corrected?? Please explain.
Suggestions anyone on where the likely culpret may ly so we can begin our search Thanx

I have been having a similar problem and posted here Clicky

I haven't gotten into it yet - not happening as frequently lately but I am planning to remove the neutral switch and see what's up (after I check out connectors etc.).

Ross

 

[wfooshee]

If my neutral light and windshield dont work,where should I look?By this description they share wiring. Can anyone tell me where the diode assembly can be located?

If they both don't work, first thing to check is the fuse. The backup fuse is power to the clock, as well, so if you have a clock that keeps time then that one's OK. The signaling systems fuse is probably the culprit. That one is switched power, and also powers the horn and brake lights. If windshield drive, neutral light, horn, and brake lights are all failed then the signalling fuse is the likely culprit. Actually running the windshield up and down is through this fuse. the backup fuse (unswitched power) feeds the windshield drive only so it can lower the windshield when you turn the key off.

 

[RadioHowie]

If my neutral light and windshield dont work,where should I look?By this description they share wiring. Can anyone tell me where the diode assembly can be located?

If they both don't work, first thing to check is the fuse. The backup fuse is power to the clock, as well, so if you have a clock that keeps time then that one's OK. The signaling systems fuse is probably the culprit. That one is switched power, and also powers the horn and brake lights. If windshield drive, neutral light, horn, and brake lights are all failed then the signalling fuse is the likely culprit. Actually running the windshield up and down is through this fuse. the backup fuse (unswitched power) feeds the windshield drive only so it can lower the windshield when you turn the key off.

Great write-up, Walt. You always have been great at reading and explaining the wiring diagrams. Gold!

Does this mean you can defeat the autoretract just by pulling that fuse instead of digging for the connector?

 

[wfooshee]

That fuse does too many other things, so: no.

Alternate answer: Well, you can, but then your clock always starts at 1:00 and your trip always starts at 0. If it even comes on. Haven't checked that.

 

[aboopoo]

If my neutral light and windshield dont work,where should I look?By this description they share wiring. Can anyone tell me where the diode assembly can be located?

If they both don't work, first thing to check is the fuse. The backup fuse is power to the clock, as well, so if you have a clock that keeps time then that one's OK. The signaling systems fuse is probably the culprit. That one is switched power, and also powers the horn and brake lights. If windshield drive, neutral light, horn, and brake lights are all failed then the signalling fuse is the likely culprit. Actually running the windshield up and down is through this fuse. the backup fuse (unswitched power) feeds the windshield drive only so it can lower the windshield when you turn the key off.

I just purchased the bike used. The previous owner had cut a wire under the dash to power his vest. It was switched power. There are two connectors just below the speedo. One connector is a 2 wire the other connector is a 6 wire. The two wire one is what he had snipped. I have since soldered the original back in place and heat shrunk it. Everything is back to stock.

The fuses have all been ohmed out and are fine.

Ive pulled all the ground spiders and they have all been cleaned and put back.They were in good shape too.

All digital systems work on the display and all other lights work. Since the description above places the neutral light and windshield together with wiring,i cant help but think there is a common issue that doesnt allow the windshield to work either?

The bike starts with the clutch out and the stand down. Can I run a hot (+) line from the battery to another wire to test the light out? Are the indicator lights in the speedo LED lit or are they bulbs?

Can I take apart the key swtich to check inside? I dont know where to look now, as Ive gone over all the wires and spiders and they all look good and un-tampered by the previous owner.

Richard,

 

[wfooshee]

With the bike starting properly in neutral without needing the clutch when the sidestand is down, then the diode network Iobeam referred to is correct, as is the ignition switch. (The line for the neutral indicator to the ECU does pass through the switch, but since the EU sees neutral, there's no problem there.) You haven't said if the horn or brake lights work. The signalling fuse supplies power to those systems on a brown wire.

Check the fuse out of the fuse box, not just across its terminals in the box. More than one owner has been surprised how it makes a difference. If the fuse is really OK, then you need to make dure 12 volts exists on the brown wire the fuse feeds. Brown wire on the front brake switch, brown wire on the horns, brown wire at the windshield drive. It's all the same wire.

 

[aboopoo]

With the bike starting properly in neutral without needing the clutch when the sidestand is down, then the diode network Iobeam referred to is correct, as is the ignition switch. (The line for the neutral indicator to the ECU does pass through the switch, but since the EU sees neutral, there's no problem there.) You haven't said if the horn or brake lights work. The signalling fuse supplies power to those systems on a brown wire.Check the fuse out of the fuse box, not just across its terminals in the box. More than one owner has been surprised how it makes a difference. If the fuse is really OK, then you need to make dure 12 volts exists on the brown wire the fuse feeds. Brown wire on the front brake switch, brown wire on the horns, brown wire at the windshield drive. It's all the same wire.

I feel like Im getting closer to a fix. I went to the shop today to check the power on the brown wire.Ive spent hours on this problem in trying to find out why the neutral light and windshield dont work. All of a sudden the windshield worked when I turned the key. It started running down and I quickly pushed the switch up and down. I had previously bared the brown wire and had 12v on it.

Then the windshield went to the bottom position and there was no 12v.?????

The brown wire has been dead since and it doesnt matter if the key is on or not. No Neutral light and in my excitment didnt look to see if it worked when the windshield worked.

I then ran 12v from the battery to the bared brown wire and,voila! I have a neutral light. Now I know the bulb works and I hear a possible relay click when I push the up windshield button. Nothing goes up however.........

I think Im on the right track and need to know how the power gets from the fuse to the brown wire and if there are any connections. Does it run through the key?

If I can figure out how to upload a photo it may show it better. I ran a red (+) wire from the battery to the brown. I also bared the light blue wire on the other side of the connector and have power too, when the red wire I tapped in is connected, therefore I can confirm I have a connection through the connector.

Any more information is appreciated..............Your getting me close to an answer.....Thankyou!

Again,,,,,how does the brown wire usually get power? I have a horn that works,asll other signals,hazzards lights,brake lights work.Fuse has also been tested and is good. Its also a fjr1300 2006 standard shift model.

Richard

 

[wfooshee]

It doesn't run through the key. The fuse itself is powered by the key, as is every switched fuse in the box, so the ignition switch isn't the issue or you'd have dead systems all over the bike.

Out of the fuse box the brown wire from the signalling fuse makes a T. One branch goes to the brake light relay, where it becomes 12 volts for the brake light bulbs when the relay energizes. The other branch goes to a connector in the wiring harness. After that connector that brown wires trees off several directions: The grip warmers, the windshield drive, the brake light switch on the front brake lever, the horns, and the glove box solenoid. The neutral light gets 12 volts from the brown wire through a connection in the windshield drive unit which puts 12 volts on the sky blue wire.

You said you checked voltage on the brown wire. The brown wire where? At the windshield drive? If there's no 12 volts there when the key is on, but the horn, brake lights, and glove box solenoid all work, then it isn't the fuse. The brown wire from the windshield drive to the harness connector may be cut somewhere, which would kill the windshield drive (and neutral light) without killing the other systems, or the windshield drive itself may be defective. That's why I'm asking which brown wire you find (or do not find) 12 volts on.

As for how the power gets to the brown wire from the fuse, the brown wire is the protected side of the fuse. There's nothing between it and the fuse. If you pull the signalling fuse none of those systems should work. (If they do, the previous owner's been messin' with stuff, and actually, that would be a valid test. Pull the signalling fuse and make sure that you then have no horns or brake lights when the key is on.)

Best guess at this point, the wire to the windshield drive is cut, but only that branch of the brown wire.

BTW, turn signals and hazard lights are not on the signalling fuse, so testing them tells you nothing about this circuit.

 

[aboopoo]

It doesn't run through the key. The fuse itself is powered by the key, as is every switched fuse in the box, so the ignition switch isn't the issue or you'd have dead systems all over the bike.
Out of the fuse box the brown wire from the signalling fuse makes a T. One branch goes to the brake light relay, where it becomes 12 volts for the brake light bulbs when the relay energizes. The other branch goes to a connector in the wiring harness. After that connector that brown wires trees off several directions: The grip warmers, the windshield drive, the brake light switch on the front brake lever, the horns, and the glove box solenoid. The neutral light gets 12 volts from the brown wire through a connection in the windshield drive unit which puts 12 volts on the sky blue wire.

You said you checked voltage on the brown wire. The brown wire where? At the windshield drive? If there's no 12 volts there when the key is on, but the horn, brake lights, and glove box solenoid all work, then it isn't the fuse. The brown wire from the windshield drive to the harness connector may be cut somewhere, which would kill the windshield drive (and neutral light) without killing the other systems, or the windshield drive itself may be defective. That's why I'm asking which brown wire you find (or do not find) 12 volts on.

As for how the power gets to the brown wire from the fuse, the brown wire is the protected side of the fuse. There's nothing between it and the fuse. If you pull the signalling fuse none of those systems should work. (If they do, the previous owner's been messin' with stuff, and actually, that would be a valid test. Pull the signalling fuse and make sure that you then have no horns or brake lights when the key is on.)

Best guess at this point, the wire to the windshield drive is cut, but only that branch of the brown wire.

BTW, turn signals and hazard lights are not on the signalling fuse, so testing them tells you nothing about this circuit.

Thanks for clarifying the Key is not the issue. It certainly sounds like somewhere between the fuse and the motordrive the T'd brown wire is loose,severed or has a bad connection.The drive did initially work briefly yesterday (for no apperant reason) and retracted the windshield to the bottom,before the circuit went dead again. You gave some great direction in finding the brown wire for the neutral light power. The brown wire I checked, is at the connector under the speedometer.

There are 2 connectors there. One has 2 wires to it, and from previous posts, disconnects the motordrive from retracting. Its connected.

The other connector with the brown wire is a 6 wire connector,right beside it. The brown,turns to blue through this connector,and this is the one I ran 12v to. This made the neutral light work,so I must be bypassing the motordrive at this point.

Are there any other connectors between the motordrive and the fuse that I can check?Ill dig around again tonight in it.

Also........is there a wire that I can run from 12v to the motor drive to connect and test. What color wire could I potentially tap a 12v line into to test?

Sorry for all the questions,but I feel that Im close the answer.........Your help is great!

 

[wfooshee]

Not sure what else I can do. . . . You can always bring it around for a look-see!!

 

[Old Michael]

ionbeam and wfooshee.

This here thread is just another example of how YOU two guys, and fellows like you, make this forum the most kick-ass, model-specific motorcycle forum on the planet.

I am repeatedly blown away by the depth of your knowledge, and more importantly, your willingness to take the time to lend a helping hand to knobs like me.....and beemerdons.......and djbill.........and others.

I just hope you both, AND the OP, AND the hundreds of other forum members, realize the magnitude of the contribution you crusty, old, machine-head, gurus make to this place. There are of course others who contribute equally helpful wisdom, but I just thought I'd single out this example....as an example.

I sincerely appreciate it, as do so many other members here..

At the very next FJR gathering, Fred W. will cheerfully (for Fred :blink: ) buy you boys all the liquor and cigars your hearts desire.

And that's a promise.

 

[wfooshee]

The other connector with the brown wire is a 6 wire connector,right beside it. The brown,turns to blue through this connector,and this is the one I ran 12v to. This made the neutral light work,so I must be bypassing the motordrive at this point.

Hey, wait. I think you've got the wrong brown wire there. The one that is blue on one side of the connector is brown with a red stripe on the other side. I'm looking for the one that's brown on both sides of the 6-wire connector. It's the center pin of the row it's on. That's the brown wire from the fuse, and it should have 12 volts when the key is on. The one you're looking at is 12 volts out from the drive to the neutral light.

The wires on that connector, from the harness side, are a black one to ground, a blue/green and sky blue/white to the windshield buttons on the grip, red/green is unswitched 12 volts, sky blue goes to the meter assembly to supply 12 volts to the neutral lamp, and brown is switched 12 volts, powered when the key is on.

The 2-wire connector is the one you disconnect to disable the key-off retract. If that connector is in place it just loops back into the drive to enable the key-off retract. When unplugged, the windshield stays where it is, which is what most of us prefer, instead of having to adjust it every time you get on the bike.

O.M. Thanks muchly. If I ever get to one o' those meets, I'll take Fred up on your offer. He may want to chat with you later, though.

 

[aboopoo]

The other connector with the brown wire is a 6 wire connector,right beside it. The brown,turns to blue through this connector,and this is the one I ran 12v to. This made the neutral light work,so I must be bypassing the motordrive at this point.

Hey, wait. I think you've got the wrong brown wire there. The one that is blue on one side of the connector is brown with a red stripe on the other side. I'm looking for the one that's brown on both sides of the 6-wire connector. It's the center pin of the row it's on. That's the brown wire from the fuse, and it should have 12 volts when the key is on. The one you're looking at is 12 volts out from the drive to the neutral light.

The wires on that connector, from the harness side, are a black one to ground, a blue/green and sky blue/white to the windshield buttons on the grip, red/green is unswitched 12 volts, sky blue goes to the meter assembly to supply 12 volts to the neutral lamp, and brown is switched 12 volts, powered when the key is on.

The 2-wire connector is the one you disconnect to disable the key-off retract. If that connector is in place it just loops back into the drive to enable the key-off retract. When unplugged, the windshield stays where it is, which is what most of us prefer, instead of having to adjust it every time you get on the bike.

O.M. Thanks muchly. If I ever get to one o' those meets, I'll take Fred up on your offer. He may want to chat with you later, though.

Everytime you supply information,I run to my shop after work to see if this is the fix.You were right in that I had the wrong brown wire.Your direction helped me to diagnose the right one,but still no solution. Heres what I found looking from the battery to the connector as it proceeds through to the cowling.

Red wire unswitched (12v +) 0 0 Brown wire (this is the one I jumped 12v (+) to and I got a neutral light to work

Brown wire switched (12v +) 0 0 light green wire(lime)

light Blue wire negat (neg - ) 0 0 Black wire

It removed my (+)jumper and tested it out, and I do have what you listed.Positive goes in switched and unswitched,but does not come out to the Brown wire that feeds the neutral light. What I dont get is, I pushed the up down button on the handle bar last night and the windshield retracked for the first time,just out of the blue. Its now in the down position and doesnt move. The motor must work?? I checked for any caught rubber and it looks clear?

I just bought this bike and already feel frustrated,but still curious to getting it going. Ill say this much......once I get this windshield in the up position again, Im disconnecting it like the others do. Im learning the hard way here. Any more suggestions?I at least know I can jump the brown wire to get the neutral light working. Any way to pull the windshield up into place?

Also.......when the 2 wire connector is pulled apart and it stops the auto retract when the key is off,can you still use the windshield,or are you in effect cutting power?

Many thanks again!

 

[wfooshee]

It's starting to sound like you have a bad drive unit. Maybe.

The jumper that disables the auto-retract does not disable the windshield drive, just the auto-retract.