No Front Brakes!

[machyoung]

I've searched not come up with anything. My bike is an 03 with just over 11k on the odometer. Yesterday, about 30 minutes into a ride, the front brakes went away. The lever started coming all the way to the grip. if I pump it a few times, it will come right back. At the same time, and this may be my mind playing tricks on me the front end seems to be exhibiting wobble at practically any speed. We stopped and set bike on center stand to raise front wheel. Everything seems to be tight. No fluid leaks, reservoir full. Had to baby the bike all the way, throughout the day. Got it home without incident. OK, here's the funny part. With the bike sitting stationary, pump the brakes up, nice hard lever. Roll the bike forward 10 feet and the lever goes right to the grip! Seems like maybe front wheel bearings or something crazy! Any ideas?

 

[DonRed7]

As you have found there is something pushing the pads back from the rotors. Try putting it on the center stand and put a towel and then 50 or 60 lbs of something on the tail to get the front up and then turn the wheel while front on to it. A rotor warp or bearing should be a bit easier to see that way. Check the rivets as well.

Don B

 

[madmike2]

When is the last time you changed the brake fluid?

Old fluid....bad! Brake fluid is "agroscopic": it will absorb water. If it's old it can absorb enough water to act very badly in the system, like turn into vapor near the brake calipers (heat from friction).

 

[RaYzerman19]

There are lots of questions here, and lots of things to check. Just go through the brake system one bit at a time. An '03 with only 11k hasn't been ridden much, and one of the first things is what Mike said, flush and bleed the system. There shouldn't be much else wrong like bearings or brake pads, unless stuck pistons in the calipers that are retracting too much when released. If so, new seal kit and rebuild them.....

 

[SkooterG]

When was the last time the brake system was flushed? Seriously, when?

 

[madmike2]

There are lots of questions here, and lots of things to check. Just go through the brake system one bit at a time. An '03 with only 11k hasn't been ridden much, and one of the first things is what Mike said, flush and bleed the system. There shouldn't be much else wrong like bearings or brake pads, unless stuck pistons in the calipers that are retracting too much when released. If so, new seal kit and rebuild them.....

I didn't want to visit "checking the pistons" until he gave feedback about the brake fluid condition. I think bleeding and flushing the front brakes may solve his problem.

I've had "road splooge" build up around my caliper pistons but I was able to clean them off using brakekleen, soft brushes and Q-tips and not have to install new seals. The reason I didn't visit that issue was his report of a soft/non-existent brake handle. When the pistons were "stuck" or slow, I still had a hard brake "feel", just no reaction at the caliper....and they didn't release easily or fully.

 

[OldSwartout]

C'mon, guys, read the post carefully. No fluid problem (water or other) is going to push the pistons back in the bores while he rolls it 10 feet in the garage. That's only about 2 rotations of the wheel. As DonRed says, it's gotta be a problem with warped or misaligned rotor or hub, bad wheel bearings, loose bolts, etc. It should be easy to see/feel once the front wheel is up off the ground.

 

[SkooterG]

C'mon, guys, read the post carefully. No fluid problem (water or other) is going to push the pistons back in the bores while he rolls it 10 feet in the garage. That's only about 2 rotations of the wheel. As DonRed says, it's gotta be a problem with warped or misaligned rotor or hub, bad wheel bearings, loose bolts, etc. It should be easy to see/feel once the front wheel is up off the ground.

I did read the post carefully. Why would it have happened all of a sudden 30 minutes into a ride? And how would have 'pumping' the lever brought them back if it's one of the causes you state?

To me, he is exhibiting the classic symptoms of bad brake fluid or air in the lines.

But then a simple answer to my original question of when the last brake flush/bleed was will most likely indicate if that is the issue.

 

[03HiYoSilver]

Like everyone stated above, a Fluid Flush (minimal) is necssary regardless of mileage. Moisture builds up over time, inhibiting braking power, and assists in corrosion in the system.

I did mine, about 6 months ago, long over due and found the Brake Fluid looked like the Green Algae goo found in an unclean fishtank.

Having the MityVac ($40) type tool now, it takes only about 15 minutes to 1/2 to complete with no assistance. This will now be done on a regular basis on all my vehicles.

Good Luck with the fix....

 

[Denver_FJR]

Curious problem... how about the possibility the primary seal in master cylinder is going south? When bike is stationary and on stand, you're holding the lever in a position or with sufficient pressure that causes seal to work, but as you attempt rolling test, you're applying a different load on lever and fluid leaks past seal. Since secondary seal is still good, no actual fluid loss occurs.

 

[madmike2]

OK, here's the funny part. With the bike sitting stationary, pump the brakes up, nice hard lever. Roll the bike forward 10 feet and the lever goes right to the grip! Seems like maybe front wheel bearings or something crazy! Any ideas?

I subscribe to this idea: Do the easiest, simplest and cheapest thing FIRST.

Flush the brake system with new fluid.

If that doesn't solve or expose the problem, then you can dig deeper.

If that does solve it...by all means flush the rear system, also.

 

[FJRAE]

Bad master cylinder, classic symptom

 

[kebo123]

My friend had the same problem on rear brake last summer during drive vacation in Alps. He was close to return back home. Finally simple change of brake liquid solved that problem...

 

[C&C]

Another vote for a leaky piston in the master cylinder.

 

[SkooterG]

Well, I wonder if machyoung is ever going to come back and reveal the million dollar answer............

 

[luvtoride]

I had an identical issue once upon a time. It ended up being the wheel bearings.

 

[wfooshee]

He didn't let Iggy work on them, did he??

Lot of speculation going on, but seriously, fluid change first, then we'll see. I've seen a fluid change fix things that there's no logical reason it should fix. Like sticky lever. Lever that pushes, stops, then pushes some more, then stops, then more, rather than smooth pressure.

Water in the fluid will take that first stroke or too away from the brakes, as vapor build in the lines. Vapor is compressible, brake fluid isn't. Changing fluid will fix that instantly.

Rotors or bearing out of whack enough to push the pistons back far enough to affect this would be something you'd have noticed by other means, I think.

 

[RadioHowie]

...front end seems to be exhibiting wobble at practically any speed...

Sure sounds like it's more than a simple flush-refill.....

 

[machyoung]

Thanks for all the responses. I just finished up the drive home from Death Valley (bike on trailer). To answer some questions; I have had the bike about 3 years and have never changed the brake fluid. Which might lead me to believe that it has never been changed. Easy place to start. However, I still have the front end wobble which would lead me to believe that there may be an out of round situation which not only moves the calipers out of position (even 10 feet in the garage) but also the all speed front end wobble. Anybody had a front bearing fail?