Overloaded

[dobias]

I know, I know. We should lose weight. At our age that's more difficult than it sounds.

I looked at the FJR load capacity of 445 lbs. and wondered how much I'm loading it when we travel.

The bathroom scale shows;

my weight 220 lbs.

my heavy leather gear 20

wife's weight 145

wife's gear 17

empty saddlebags 25

empty trunk 10

tank bag (minimum) 8

raingear 10

total 455 lbs. and that's without a change of clothes.

I guess I should have bought a Goldwing or plan on replacing the bags with a trailer. <_<

dobias

 

[twowheelnut]

You'll be fine if you put helium in the tires instead of air...

 

[slapnpop]

I've ridden many a miles two up, and we're both larger than you two. Guessing on 30lbs of gear on the two of us gives me a total weight of 540, before bags and luggage. Not as many miles as lots of other people do, but it works. Look at upgrading the rear suspension for sure if you haven't already. I do recall the main weight constraint was the rear subframe, but have no verification of that. Maybe someone could fame a few replacement HD rear subframes? :dntknw:

 

[markjenn]

Bikes seem to be routinely overloaded up to 120% of their specified gross weight and structural failures seem quite rare. This leads me to believe that the limits specified by the mfg are there mostly to establish a weight that is used for EPA testing and safety testing, not a limit that is likely to cause things to bend or break.

But it's probably a good idea to dial back how hard you're pushing the machine if you're over the limit to keep some kind of safety margin. And monitor tire pressures like a hawk.

One thing I wouldn't push is the max gross weight ratings of the tires. In nearly all cases, the tires are rated for more weight than the gross weight of the bike. For example, Z6's are rated for about 520 front/780 rear (1300 total), much higher than the FJR's weight limits. You'd be getting into stupidville to start exceeding this, although I'm sure some do, especially if they start carrying heavy loads in the saddlebags and top box without getting any of that weight forward with a tank bag.

- Mark

 

[Windjammer]

FJR load capacity of 445 lbs.

Sounds like engineers and liability lawyers trying to cover their asses to me. Gimme a break.

520 front/780 rear (1300 total),

That's more like it, but don't forget to subtract the weight of the bike from the 1300 total!! Be generous and figure around 650 wet with bags and trunk installed but empty. Leaves ya another 650 for you, the 'ol lady and all yer gear. If ya can't stay under that, tell the 'ol lady she has to either lose weight or stay home! :haha:

 

[Craig in Denver]

plan on replacing the bags with a trailer.

If ya got a Mrs; a trailer is probably inevitable. Can't go that fast enny way.

I believe Mr. Warchild once posted that it's not the weight, it's dragging hard parts that's the problem. If ya ain't draggin'; ride on.

This does NOT mean WC approves of ANY overloading.

CRAP I hate liability; therefore: YMMV, IMHO

And I'm no longer a FNG.

 

[GalaxyBlue]

CRAP I hate liability; therefore: YMMV, IMHO

What is YMMV anyway??

 

[Vstar2FJR]

YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary

 

[dobias]

As to upgrading the suspension; that's what started me on this weight business.

I'm awaiting a new spring for my Wilbers shock. They had provided a 100 Kg spring that is slightly less than the stock yamaha shock loading. They then proposed a 120 Kg spring, but I know of another poster that had a 130 Kg spring and it was barely adequate for the range of weight (very similar to mine) that he carried. If we heavy weight tourers could wish for an improvement of the shocks, it would be for a greater range of adjustment of the spring.... softer for the solo rider and stiffer for the full touring load. As I understand the description, the preload adjuster only raises the bike above the spring.

Because of variables, like my shock being an inch shorter, the spring's length is also shorter. Their job of selecting springs appears much more complex than it looks at first glance. I would think a shorter spring has a naturally shorter range than a longer spring. I would appreciate any clarification of this. There is precious little I can find on the subject. :clap:

Question for the experts: Does the 445 lbs. capacity of the FJR exclude or include the saddlebags? Since they aren't standard issue outside the Northern Hemisphere

I ASSumed they were part of the load.

dobias

 

[MCRIDER007]

Does the 445 lbs. capacity of the FJR exclude or include the saddlebags?

The FJR does not have a 445 lb capacity, it has a 1050 lb GVWR. You subtract the weight of the FJR from the GVWR and what is left over is "capacity". The weight of a stock FJR, full of gas, with saddlebags, is about 640 lb, the ABS model is about 653 lbs. Don't forget to add the weight of your additions and subtract any weight savings from an aftermarket exhaust system.

What does the GVWR actually mean? That is a good question but my experience is that the handling and braking is not nearly as good when you exceed the GVWR. What Mark said about the tire capacities is right on although I think you need to be most concerned about the weight on the rear tire and I think that anyone who loads the rear tire to the stated capacity is risking a tire failure. I would want to have at least a 10 percent margin of error.

I think that 1500 Goldwings probably had the greatest percentage of tire failures of any bike in history. They only had a 385 lb "capacity" and very difficult access to the rear tire so most riders didn't check their tire pressures on a regular basis. I used to see some huge people riding double on those bikes, with luggage piled on the trunks, and they must have been exceeding the GVWR by at least 200 pounds. I never heard of a frame cracking but tires were another story.

 

[skyway]

As to upgrading the suspension; that's what started me on this weight business.I'm awaiting a new spring for my Wilbers shock. They had provided a 100 Kg spring that is slightly less than the stock yamaha shock loading. They then proposed a 120 Kg spring, but I know of another poster that had a 130 Kg spring and it was barely adequate for the range of weight (very similar to mine) that he carried. If we heavy weight tourers could wish for an improvement of the shocks, it would be for a greater range of adjustment of the spring.... softer for the solo rider and stiffer for the full touring load. As I understand the description, the preload adjuster only raises the bike above the spring.

Because of variables, like my shock being an inch shorter, the spring's length is also shorter. Their job of selecting springs appears much more complex than it looks at first glance. I would think a shorter spring has a naturally shorter range than a longer spring. I would appreciate any clarification of this. There is precious little I can find on the subject.  :clap:

Question for the experts: Does the 445 lbs. capacity of the FJR exclude or include the saddlebags? Since they aren't standard issue outside the Northern Hemisphere

I ASSumed they were part of the load. 

dobias

I understand what your saying regarding the weight range, going from solo to full on touring as I have been dealing with this also. I can't speak for the other Wilbers models but I bought the full tilt 641 with all the goodies. The initial preload that wilbers is recommending is on the high side, 16mm for me initially. I even dialed mine up with another 14mm of preload and still it was wallowing in the rear when fully loaded and was like a rock when solo. This was with the 9.5kg spring that wilbers recommended based on the weights that I supplied to Klaus.

I have now switched out to a 11.0kg spring and backed the initial preload out to around 12mm. My shock will not allow any less preload as the lock ring is backed all the way out to the bottom of the remote preload. It is possible to back it off a little further by removing the lock ring, but I going to try for a while with the 11.0kg.

My wilbers shock only offers 8mm of remote preload which I would have preferred at least 15mm, which would help a lot in going from solo to full load. My presonal preferance for spring rates is to always use a stiffer spring with less initial preload, than to have a weaker spring with lots of preload. This will give the solo rider more comfort over harsh ground simply because the stiffer spring is not constantly compressed with extra initial preload in order to acheive the required sag numbers. This will also prolong the life of the rear spring when it is under less constant load.

I have had both wilbers springs checked for ratings and here are the numbers

(9.5kg spring)

preload 16mm 510lb/9.1kg

(11.0kg)

preload 16mm 600lb/10.7kg

Both springs are slightly below the advertised ratings and Wilbers has told me that the maunfacturing tolerances are +/- 5% on load rating and +/-3mm length.

I skipped the 2 other available rates between the 2 mentioned above and this gives me another 90lbs of load rating with equal initial preload. I am hoping this spring will give me the balance I need to go between riding solo to 2-up fully loaded.

The differences in spring rates mentioned above are substantial, but would be much more dramatic in feel if we were in the ranges between 200-300lb.

 

[dobias]

mcrider007,

I'll grant you the figures you came up with, though they are only one of many and varied reports of FJR weight bearing statistics. I have an ABS so I'm sure I've a smaller net weight carrying capacity. It seems every website that has the FJR "statistics" must have their own scales!

Regardless, I'm overloaded by anyone's determination.

I'm still in the dark as to whether any of the weights of the FJR (wet or dry) include the saddlebags.

Skyway,

My idea of perfection would be to have my solo rider weight "sag"taken care of by the spring without any preload and save all of the preload to satisfy the fully laden "sag". I fear my shorter spring will be an unsurmountable problem to having a wide range.

How many clicks do you have of the advertised preload 22 clicks? I only have 16.

dobias

 

[twowheelnut]

Jesus! You guys are making my head hurt! Wouldn't it be easier just to visit Jenny Craig?

Dammit! Now I gotta figure out all this weight stuff before Yosemite!

Note to self: Better lay off the strudel and Foster's.

 

[MCRIDER007]

I'll grant you the figures you came up with, though they are only one of many and varied reports of FJR weight bearing statistics

My numbers came from the July 2002 and October 2003 issues of MotorCyclist magazine and they were for a 2003 standard and a 2004 ABS models with hard bags installed. They did not say if they were testing California models and if there is a weight difference between a California model and what is sold in the other 49 states. MotorCyclist claims they actually weigh the bikes they test on certified scales but there are probably small variances among certified scales.

It should also be noted that the tire manufactures' maximum weight ratings are for maximum cold air pressures and "cool" riding conditions but I have not been able to find their definitions of what a "cool" riding condition is.

 

[Howardrg]

***Since they aren't standard issue outside the Northern Hemisphere***

Yes they are

Howard

 

[markjenn]

On the tire's performance capabilities at max weight, I believe if your cold pressure is the max pressure on the sidewall (e.g., 42 psi), you can theoretically load the tire to the full rated weight (e.g., 780 lb) and operate this tire continuously at it's max speed rating (e.g., 149+ for Z-rated tires) and be assured the tire will not overheat and fail. But I have no idea what ambient temperature this assumes.

Whether this is prudent or not is another question.

For sure, inattention to tire pressure is THE major factor in tire problems and failures. Low tire pressure and overloading is a deadly combination.

- Mark

 

[skyway]

Skyway,My idea of perfection would be to have my solo rider weight "sag"taken care of by the spring without any preload and save all of the preload to satisfy the fully laden "sag".

This is exactly what I am trying to achieve. When I'm refering to initial preload, this is the load placed upon the spring without the use of any of the 8mm of available remote preload adjuster that is mounted on the side of the bike. You have to have some initial preload added to the spring and I hope now that 12mm on the 11.0kg rated spring will be right for me.

With the 11.0kg spring now installed, despite having 6mm less of initial preload than the 9.5kg spring that originally came from wilbers, the ride is not nearly as harsh as when I had 30mm of initial preload added to the 9.5kg spring to achieve the 35-40mm recommended sag height. Also the remote preload is backed all the way out, which now frees up all of the 8mm of remote preload for times of passenger or added weight.

I fear my shorter spring will be an unsurmountable problem to having a wide range.

I don't think that the spring length is cause for concern with the Wilbers. The concern with any shock is having a spring that is too soft, which will require excessive initial preload to achieve the correct sag height. If this is true, then eventually when you add your passenger/added weight the available 8mm of remote preload will not be enough for the increased load. My concern is not having enough available remote preload when the weight starts adding up.

How many clicks do you have of the advertised preload 22 clicks? I only have 16.

Right now for solo riding, zero. The way I see it, riding solo with minimum added weight there should be zero added remote preload, why would you ever want to go softer. This is why you use the initial preload on the spring. For those without the option of remote hydraulic preload, its time to bust out the wrench and start turning.

Another thing that you could do if you feel it is wallowing in corners/bumps etc when fully laden is to dial on some more compression. This will reduce the time in which it takes the shock to recover from such bumps and prevent the shock from bottoming out. This also will reduce the distance the shock will travel during the same time period. Though without the appropriate rated spring, making such adjustments, even in large amounts at a time will not be substantially felt by the rider.

 

[skyway]

Jesus! You guys are making my head hurt! Wouldn't it be easier just to visit Jenny Craig?

Does she know how to set up motorcycle suspension, if so send 'er over would ya.

 

[radman]

One concern that hasn't been directly addressed is that of loss of travel. Keep cranking in the preload, you eventually run out of spring. Lose travel, you have a part time hardtail, which can really wreck your day when it becomes a hardtail and you weren't expecting it.