Putting weight down on the top side in a corner

[Rolavine]

Our Oregon weather is getting nice again, and though I didn't stop riding through the slop, I did manage to get fairly sloppy in my cornering techniques. Tackling some twisties yesterday, on the fun way back home from my rural commute, I remembered that I used to put some weight on the high side foot peg in a corners, a technique I learned from the 'Proficient Motorcycling' books. Well I started doing it again and damn, does that work great, and even remembered rediscovering this trick many times before, after a winter of having my mind obsessed with traction and its related, safe smoothness.

This technique, seems to really balance out the FJR in the curves, makes it hug the line more and just hunker up a little bit tighter. My FJR with its stock suspension, and worn rear tire, and overweight rider, runs a bit bumpy through a curve, and the line drifts based on road surface conditions, but with this weight transfer to the high side, she tracks through with far less disturbance and given a rare chunk of good road, like she is on rails. And this can be done just a little, or a lot, since our footpegs are so wide apart we have a lot of leverage. You can also use this a fine control over the curve.

Anyway, I thought I would mention this for any others who might also be afflicted with seasonal cycle memory loss!

 

[Fred W]

Our Oregon weather is getting nice again, and though I didn't stop riding through the slop, I did manage to get fairly sloppy in my cornering techniques. Tackling some twisties yesterday, on the fun way back home from my rural commute, I remembered that I used to put some weight on the high side foot peg in a corners, a technique I learned from the 'Proficient Motorcycling' books. Well I started doing it again and damn, does that work great, and even remembered rediscovering this trick many times before, after a winter of having my mind obsessed with traction and its related, safe smoothness.
This technique, seems to really balance out the FJR in the curves, makes it hug the line more and just hunker up a little bit tighter. My FJR with its stock suspension, and worn rear tire, and overweight rider, runs a bit bumpy through a curve, and the line drifts based on road surface conditions, but with this weight transfer to the high side, she tracks through with far less disturbance and given a rare chunk of good road, like she is on rails. And this can be done just a little, or a lot, since our footpegs are so wide apart we have a lot of leverage. You can also use this a fine control over the curve.

Anyway, I thought I would mention this for any others who might also be afflicted with seasonal cycle memory loss!

OK, I'll bite.

Why wouldn't you want to put that extra weight on the inside peg instead of the outside one? The inside peg is lower and, well, inside, which would allow you to straighten up the bike more (lean less).

I'm open to new ideas, but it seems rather more intuitive to me...

 

[wfooshee]

He's not talking about body position. Hanging off the bike doesn't necessarily mean your weight is on the inside peg. Most of your weight is probably on the seat. He's saying keep some pressure in the high leg, and keep pressing on the high peg.

 

[Fred W]

He's not talking about body position. Hanging off the bike doesn't necessarily mean your weight is on the inside peg. Most of your weight is probably on the seat. He's saying keep some pressure in the high leg, and keep pressing on the high peg.

I know. I'm asking why you wouldn't want to weight the inside peg.

 

[BwanaDik]

He's not talking about body position. Hanging off the bike doesn't necessarily mean your weight is on the inside peg. Most of your weight is probably on the seat. He's saying keep some pressure in the high leg, and keep pressing on the high peg.

I know. I'm asking why you wouldn't want to weight the inside peg.

+1

Don't understand either. Normally, in my bag of cornering tools, I have countersteer (easy turn), weight on inside peg (corner tightening up), and, last but not least, leaning in to the CLASS "kiss the mirror" body weight transfer (or Holy Shit, I'm into this waaaay to fast).

Never heard of weighting the outside/high side peg except for steering lock parking lot turns at <5MPH

 

[SkooterG]

Well then, you non-believers need to either, 1) Buy Lee Parks' book Total Control, or 2) Take his class, or 3) Do both.

Cause he can explain it much better than I can.

 

[scubatech]

Keith Code speaks of this in his "Twist of the Wrist" series of riding techniques.

 

[Fred W]

Well then, you non-believers need to either, 1) Buy Lee Parks' book Total Control, or 2) Take his class, or 3) Do both.
Cause he can explain it much better than I can.

Funny thing is I already have his book. I'll have to search for that section and see if he goes into the physics of it.

 

[Bounce]

my guess is that, once you're heeled over into the curve with most of your weight to the inside, pushing even more on the low side peg might work to press the tire outside of the traction pie (increased pushing toward the sidewall). if so, then perhaps pressure kept on the high side peg is a control feature that adds stability by providing something like an isometric force against the major push to low side.

but that's just a swag.

 

[SkooterG]

I THINK part of the reason is that if you run out of clearance and you are leaned so far over that you scrape a peg, it is best if you don't have any weight on that peg.

 

[SouthernCruizer]

Miles and miles and year and years in the saddle will teach you how to handle curves instinctively. But for those that are not there yet, there are many books and articles on how to corner a bike. Here's a simplistic web site that covers the basics in ez to understand language. Clicky

another link>> Clicky

 

[BwanaDik]

Good links, thanks. Didn't see any reference to the weight on the outside peg.

Damn, your avatar is annoying, I liked your ugly helmet better

 

[exskibum]

I use the technique, too. I'll give a shot at the explanation. As noted above, my body is on the inside for both inside and outside peg weighting. And I'm countersteering whether weighting the inside or outside peg. I'm all feel, so I don't know what the expert track instructors say, but when the bike is leaned over and my weight is on the outside peg with my body inside, the bike feels like it's on rails -- rock solid carve like holding a GS turn on the inside edge of the outside ski. I usually have little use for much peg weighting or moving my body much inside around town, but it works great in technical twisties and sweepers, esp. if pushing it a bit.

For me, weighting the inside peg makes the bike carve tighter, and I'll often stand my weight on the inside peg carving around a tight or decreasing radius corner, especially when riding twisties hard and fast -- it's very easy to carve it tighter from there. I also use the weight on my inside peg more to initiate a turn (with countersteer), especially when carving fast side to side turns, and especially when that's downhill.

I tend to use the body inside, weight on outside peg technique in a long sweeper to hold the line at speed, and after initiating a turn on the inside peg if the radius is not decreasing and I have to hold the carving line for a while. (I'll subtly shift my weight from inside to outside peg, without moving my body to go from initiation to holding a stable carving line.)

It almost feels like the outside peg weighting technique provides a stabilizing counter force to the countersteer pressure I'm applying to the opposite side handlebar, and I can adjust with countersteer to get more or less turn in against that outside peg stability. By contrast, when on the inside peg, it feels more like I can decrease the radius of the turn instantly and not wash out the front even in the most aggressive situations.

FWIW.

 

[UberKul]

Edit: Rich snuck that response in before I could post and has a really good description of the feel/effect relationship of which peg is weighted.

From a dirt bike site regarding off camber but it's basically a leaned over bike and how weight equals traction.

Off camber technique.

 

[SouthernCruizer]

Good links, thanks. Didn't see any reference to the weight on the outside peg.
Damn, your avatar is annoying, I liked your ugly helmet better

*****************************

Sorry you dont like my avatar, just trying to get the red out, brother!! Send drops! :blink:

 

[Fred W]

I THINK part of the reason is that if you run out of clearance and you are leaned so far over that you scrape a peg, it is best if you don't have any weight on that peg.

That is a good point. I guess the counterpoint would be that if you are weighting the bike optimally maybe you won't be grinding the hard parts?

But to be my own devil's advocate, supposed one was weighting the inside peg and it touches down. The weight would then shift from being on the bike to being supported by the ground (via the sliding feeler) which could be abrupt.

I think weighting either peg would be better than leaving your weight on the (relatively high center of gravity) seat, though that is clearly what most of us do.

 

[Fred W]

I use the technique, too. I'll give a shot at the explanation. As noted above, my body is on the inside for both inside and outside peg weighting. And I'm countersteering whether weighting the inside or outside peg. I'm all feel, so I don't know what the expert track instructors say, but when the bike is leaned over and my weight is on the outside peg with my body inside, the bike feels like it's on rails -- rock solid carve like holding a GS turn on the inside edge of the outside ski. I usually have little use for much peg weighting or moving my body much inside around town, but it works great in technical twisties and sweepers, esp. if pushing it a bit.
For me, weighting the inside peg makes the bike carve tighter, and I'll often stand my weight on the inside peg carving around a tight or decreasing radius corner, especially when riding twisties hard and fast -- it's very easy to carve it tighter from there. I also use the weight on my inside peg more to initiate a turn (with countersteer), especially when carving fast side to side turns, and especially when that's downhill.

I tend to use the body inside, weight on outside peg technique in a long sweeper to hold the line at speed, and after initiating a turn on the inside peg if the radius is not decreasing and I have to hold the carving line for a while. (I'll subtly shift my weight from inside to outside peg, without moving my body to go from initiation to holding a stable carving line.)

It almost feels like the outside peg weighting technique provides a stabilizing counter force to the countersteer pressure I'm applying to the opposite side handlebar, and I can adjust with countersteer to get more or less turn in against that outside peg stability. By contrast, when on the inside peg, it feels more like I can decrease the radius of the turn instantly and not wash out the front even in the most aggressive situations.

FWIW.

Excellent descriptions. Thanks. The skiing analogies really help. So, it sounds like maybe there is room to use both techniques under different situations.

And no, I am no neophyte to motorcycle riding. Been doing it in the dirt and on the road for 35 years +/-.

I just figure that, like most things in life, there is always a lot left to learn.

 

[exskibum]

The skiing analogies really help. So, it sounds like maybe there is room to use both techniques under different situations.

Yep. I'm a longtime fan worshipper of Ingemar Stenmark. So if you're coming from the same place, much of what I feel will seem familiar to you, too. I see the inside peg thing as the equivalent of the weight forward, driving/rolling my knee ski technique so that the shovel of the ski rolls on edge and deflects quickly (in bumps or a slalom course), and the outside peg thing as akin to hip angulation for holding the already set edge in a long carving arc (in a GS turn).

And no, I am no neophyte to motorcycle riding. Been doing it in the dirt and on the road for 35 years +/-. I just figure that, like most things in life, there is always a lot left to learn.

Same page for both of us. I think it was Sparky3008 (traded his FJR to Smitty for a GSXR1000 a while ago) who first mentioned the outside peg technique maybe 3 years ago -- I think he said he'd picked it up in a track school. Like you, I've been on bikes for decades and had never heard of that before, though I was certainly using the inside peg. So, I went out, tried it in different situations, learned something new, and incorporated it into my riding technique.

 

[v65]

Well then, you non-believers need to either, 1) Buy Lee Parks' book Total Control, or 2) Take his class, or 3) Do both.
Cause he can explain it much better than I can.

pg. 79, bottom of left column to top of right column: he says it doesn't matter how much you weight the inside versus outside peg in his experience.

I think weighting either peg would be better than leaving your weight on the (relatively high center of gravity) seat, though that is clearly what most of us do.

Sound pretty similar to what Code says in his pivot points section.

Just reporting what I read, no expert here.