El Toro Joe
FYYFF
Having one of these in your wallet also helps...when the radar detector fails.
Split: Radar Detector Stuff
- Thread starter Uncle Hud
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Elitist, special treatment isn't cool. If they enforced across-the-board on everyone for speeding (even other cops and officials/celebrities with "pull") then it wouldn't take long for the posted limits to match the design of the road.
Pterodactyl
Well-known member
TomInPA
Well-known member
I think the root of the problem is when the speed limit is set so artificially low that EVERYONE is at least 10 MPH over the limit. I can't begin to tell you how many 3 lane divided highway segments in the Pittsburgh area have limits of 55 MPH. Everyone is doing 70. When the limit actually rises to the "design of the road", most people are surprisingly law abiding.
There is an assumption that people will just go 10 mph faster than the limit, and it's not true. There are always those that push it, but speed limits that are set in accordance with design and conditions, are generally respected, as are those that enforce them. Ridiculously low limits and speed traps don't get much respect.
Twigg
Just an old, bald man!
There was research done in Canada on speed limits and driver behaviour.
What it showed was that if the speed limit is set too low for the road, then most drivers ignored it and drove faster. They then set the speed limit right at the average speed of the faster motorists and guess what .... nearly everyone stayed within it.
What also happened was that motorists on that road became much more responsive to areas where reduced limits were necessary.
Sorry, don't have a link.
ionbeam
2 FUN
My first line of radar defense is always situational awareness. Watch the traffic, watch the road(!) and occasionally watch your rear view mirrors, especially when pulling away from a stop briskly
And, in some states and areas, look up for flying bears and look down for speed measuring markings on the road. My second line of defense is moderation based on the weather, traffic and road situation. My last line of defense is my Escort Red Line. If it goes off before I spot the traffic control officer I screwed up.
My brother the cop (whose commanding officer kept saying, "Officer Smith, have you lost your citation pad...") says that no matter who you are, how old you are or what you are driving, dangerous driving gets tickets. He also notes that a large speed differential is dangerous no matter what the average traffic flow rate is; if a rider/driver's speed differential to too high you will get a chance to talk with him and it could be expensive.
Federal highways and most State roads are designed for higher speeds than what are posted. Most of the drivers that ignore the speed limit and drive faster are actually driving closer to the designed speed. There is no way that some states that used to be posted 65 mph could jump to posted speeds of 75-85 mph if the roads weren't designed for those speeds.
My brother the cop (whose commanding officer kept saying, "Officer Smith, have you lost your citation pad...") says that no matter who you are, how old you are or what you are driving, dangerous driving gets tickets. He also notes that a large speed differential is dangerous no matter what the average traffic flow rate is; if a rider/driver's speed differential to too high you will get a chance to talk with him and it could be expensive.
Read (a lot) more from a definitive agency tasked with highway safety.
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Geezer
Parsimonious Curmudgeon
Not only are most roads designed for higher speeds than the current posted limits, but vehicles are a lot more capable of safely driving at higher speeds than they were when most roads were designed. The interstate system was designed and built at a time when rack-and-pinion steering was only available in high end performance cars, radial tires did not exist, and the average car was a heavy behemoth with cushy soft suspension.
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Cars and roads can handle higher speeds. Most drivers cannot. If it bothers you, go ask your state legislature to make obtaining a license harder and the penalties for violating the rules harsher. Then, maybe, limits will increase.
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Twigg
Just an old, bald man!
The point here is that most drivers can, and do ... every day. They just get tickets for it. Most accidents do not happen on limited access highways, yet Oregon still restricts them to walking speed, while the same road in Texas is 85 mph.
Sure we need better education and training for drivers, but most of us are perfectly able to run much higher speeds, and do so safely.
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Just because someone is able to make it from point A to point B today without killing someone doesn't mean they can drive worth the crap. Driving is easy until emergency maneuvers are required, or the cell phone rings, or the kid needs spanked, or the dog jumps into the driver's lap.
The thousands of car crashes we handle every day indicate people don't drive well as the roads' limits currently are. They would get worse as speeds increase and reaction time decreases. I understand that some roads are stupid slow, but others are pushing their limits.
The day we have gone a week without any crashes in the US, you let me know, and I'll go knocking on NHSTA's door. Since 90% or more of crashes are driver error, and less than 1% are attributable to road engineering, the problem lies with the drivers, not the roads. The 8 or 9% difference in there is set aside for flooding, fire, animal strikes, etc. Even some of those are avoidable given the correct driving behavior and caution.
Still very simple...There are big white signs with numbers on them posted everywhere. Pay attention to those signs and you'll be fine.
The thousands of car crashes we handle every day indicate people don't drive well as the roads' limits currently are. They would get worse as speeds increase and reaction time decreases. I understand that some roads are stupid slow, but others are pushing their limits.
The day we have gone a week without any crashes in the US, you let me know, and I'll go knocking on NHSTA's door. Since 90% or more of crashes are driver error, and less than 1% are attributable to road engineering, the problem lies with the drivers, not the roads. The 8 or 9% difference in there is set aside for flooding, fire, animal strikes, etc. Even some of those are avoidable given the correct driving behavior and caution.
Still very simple...There are big white signs with numbers on them posted everywhere. Pay attention to those signs and you'll be fine.
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Geezer
Parsimonious Curmudgeon
You are making the assumption that speed is a factor in most crashes. I realize that the LEO always check that box on the form whenever one of the drivers involved was travelling above the speed limit, so the statistics show it as fact, but that does not prove the actual cause. I contend, without empirical evidence, that the majority of crashes are caused by lack of attention on the driver's part. As vehicles have become more capable, drivers have become more complacent and focus less of their attention on the task of driving.
TomInPA
Well-known member
I have at least as much respect for speed limits as you do.
It's my charm and good looks that keeps me ticket free, rather than my badge.
Two words: 85% rule
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Your lack of empirical evidence is exactly the problem. Speed is listed when it is a factor in a crash. Not just because the posted limit was violated. Driver inattention is huge, and you know what the first thing most inattentive drivers do? They let their speed creep, and soon are going too fast to react to what's in front of them. The only factor that affects drivers reaction time is speed.
Rationalizing behavior with baloney does not make it ok. Haha...I speed too, but I don't cry when I get caught. I took a risk and lost. Oh well...
Rationalizing behavior with baloney does not make it ok. Haha...I speed too, but I don't cry when I get caught. I took a risk and lost. Oh well...
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
I seriously hope you're not implying that I use that to get out of tickets, because I do not. Actually, I've never been pulled over on my FJR during an FJR ride with a group, but other riders have. Both times I talked the guy out of writing someone else a citation. Shit happens...And you're neither that good looking nor charming. I'm amazed you haven't been locked up for that face.I have at least as much respect for speed limits as you do.
It's my charm and good looks that keeps me ticket free, rather than my badge.
Geezer
Parsimonious Curmudgeon
Yes. inattention causes speed to creep up, and it also causes a lot of other errors, but the real cause in that case would be inattention, not speed. And higher speed limits may force drivers to pay attention to driving, but probably not. I don't know how much emphasis is placed on teaching new drivers how important it is to focus on the task of driving, but that may not make much difference to young people who already know everything and are indestructible. So, this is why we have the rather grey area where LEO can use discretion.
Twigg
Just an old, bald man!
I've never managed to find much evidence that speed is a major factor in accidents. Sure it worsens an accident, but rarely does it seem to be a cause.
Fatigue, inattention, plain bad driving and alcohol seem to be the most common causes. Also, most accidents happen on urban roads within about 3 miles of the driver's home. The speed limit is usually 35 or 40 mph. Interstates are the safest roads, and other limited access highways are close behind.
I don't know about others, but if I let my mind wander, my speed tends to fall, not rise. The only time I am likely to be driving or riding too fast is when I have left a high speed road and 55 seems too slow
Maybe I'm just odd!
Fatigue, inattention, plain bad driving and alcohol seem to be the most common causes. Also, most accidents happen on urban roads within about 3 miles of the driver's home. The speed limit is usually 35 or 40 mph. Interstates are the safest roads, and other limited access highways are close behind.
I don't know about others, but if I let my mind wander, my speed tends to fall, not rise. The only time I am likely to be driving or riding too fast is when I have left a high speed road and 55 seems too slow
Maybe I'm just odd!
TomInPA
Well-known member
FWIW, I am blessed with many of the same attributes as our esteemed amigo sr. Papa Chuy, Stanley de los Rosbustos. You should hope to be so physically endowed as those of us who have dedicated ourselves to the pursuit of life in the fast lane. For one, no one wants to lock us up where they have to look at us the next morning.I seriously hope you're not implying that I use that to get out of tickets, because I do not. Actually, I've never been pulled over on my FJR during an FJR ride with a group, but other riders have. Both times I talked the guy out of writing someone else a citation. Shit happens...And you're neither that good looking nor charming. I'm amazed you haven't been locked up for that face.I have at least as much respect for speed limits as you do.
It's my charm and good looks that keeps me ticket free, rather than my badge.
While my inadvertent excursions above the speed limit have been the subject of several roadside discussions with concerned constables of safety, I have enjoyed similar results to your own. One thing I have learned about my fellow FJR riders...when I get lit up, they keep riding. There is a funny story attached to that and a trip to Death Valley.
I have spoken with NHTSA engineers and researchers (they used to work in the office next door and ask me for computer help all the time). On more than one occasion, they pointed out to me how their numbers are collected.
"a factor in" [an accident/wreck] means that one of the involved vehicles' people did [whatever]. They translated that into laymen terms for me. If a driver of car 1 was DUI but within their lane and otherwise observing traffic rules & regs when a driver in car 2 turned to scold a child in the back seat and crossed the center line; the resultant stats would show that "alcohol was involved" (or a factor, etc.). If car 2 had a family of 4 die in that wreck and the sole occupant/operator in car 1 survived the report would show 4 "alcohol related traffic deaths" even though car 1 was the real "victim". Meanwhile MADD would camp outside the home of operator of car 1 and call for his/her head.
As mentioned above, the same goes for speeding. It doesn't mean that the wreck was caused by the speeder/drunk/etc.; just that [the thing] was part of the whole.
See how that inflates the results? The engineers and researchers collate the data but it's actual meaning is seldom explicitly described to the average Joe or Jane, who are left to wring their hands and push for more laws in the face of these inflated (or at least partially misrepresented) findings. They're the bottom of a chain of command who wants to see increased staff and budgets [to better do their jobs] so a public clammoring for more legislation is a feeder into that desire.
Remember any time someone says, "There ought to be a law", smart money is that there oughtn't.
The trick is to pin down the person and ask them if [the whatever] was the actual cause of the wreck, a contributing factor (large of small), or just a data point without direct impact. Maybe it was the passenger(s) and not the operator who brought that [thing] to the report. More often than not, the person presenting that horrible "fact" doesn't know any more about it than you do and is taking the whole at face value.
"a factor in" [an accident/wreck] means that one of the involved vehicles' people did [whatever]. They translated that into laymen terms for me. If a driver of car 1 was DUI but within their lane and otherwise observing traffic rules & regs when a driver in car 2 turned to scold a child in the back seat and crossed the center line; the resultant stats would show that "alcohol was involved" (or a factor, etc.). If car 2 had a family of 4 die in that wreck and the sole occupant/operator in car 1 survived the report would show 4 "alcohol related traffic deaths" even though car 1 was the real "victim". Meanwhile MADD would camp outside the home of operator of car 1 and call for his/her head.
As mentioned above, the same goes for speeding. It doesn't mean that the wreck was caused by the speeder/drunk/etc.; just that [the thing] was part of the whole.
See how that inflates the results? The engineers and researchers collate the data but it's actual meaning is seldom explicitly described to the average Joe or Jane, who are left to wring their hands and push for more laws in the face of these inflated (or at least partially misrepresented) findings. They're the bottom of a chain of command who wants to see increased staff and budgets [to better do their jobs] so a public clammoring for more legislation is a feeder into that desire.
Remember any time someone says, "There ought to be a law", smart money is that there oughtn't.
The trick is to pin down the person and ask them if [the whatever] was the actual cause of the wreck, a contributing factor (large of small), or just a data point without direct impact. Maybe it was the passenger(s) and not the operator who brought that [thing] to the report. More often than not, the person presenting that horrible "fact" doesn't know any more about it than you do and is taking the whole at face value.
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Last Chance
Well-known member
I know I shouldn't comment, but I can't resist.. Having driven commercially for 25 years in NorCal and going through the "Smith System" a few times I have my own ideas on this subject. Drivers, most ot them, in the U.S. are woefully deficient in their ability to sefely drive. Period.. Failure to look ahead, and to get the "Big Picture" is a big factor. (Inattentive driving??) Speed Diferential! That is also a big factor...Not necissarily "speed" itself. (Up to a point.) Better driver education and more stringent requirements to obtain a D/L might help. One thing that insures I focus more than normal when on the FJR is the knowledge if I run into ANYTHING, it is going to hurt! My wife used to complain I didn't pay attention to her when driving in our car... I don't multi-task well. Or as I learned when I got my pilot's license, "Aviate, navigate, communicate!"
