Take this for what its worth

Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum

Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Reading some of the comments above makes me think that there is some confusion as to what changed on the later model FJR fuel systems.

The part 19 in the diagram mentioned above is the fuel pressure regulator as installed on the 03/04/05 bikes. It is vacuum referenced. The regulator has a diaphragm inside the can that is spring loaded to set the fuel pressure that the regulator "pops off". The vacuum signal modifies the spring load on the backside of the diaphragm such that the fuel pressure tracks intake vacuum. Excess fuel is returned to the tank. In this system the fuel pressure drop across the fuel injector is always constant. Fuel pressure varies constantly vs. the intake vacuum to maintain this.

The 06/07 bikes do not have that fuel pressure regulator nor do they have the fuel return line. Instead, there is a fixed fuel pressure regulator at the fuel pump so as to maintain a constant fuel pressure delivered from the tank to the rail. The pump still pumps the same volume and excess fuel from the regulator is still returned to the tank. Just the regulator is located immediately at the tank. The part #19 does not exist on the later model rail at all. The fuel flow is simply dead headed at the rail with no return line to the tank. In effect, you could run the 06/07 systems with the same fuel pressure regulator mounted at the tank instead and just leave the vacuum line off. Same sort of hardware just the location is changed.

Typically, port fuel injection systems have always relied on a constant fuel pressure drop across the injector. That way the only variable affecting fuel flow is how long the injector is opened...often referred to as the pulse width or the length of time the injector is pulsed open by the ECM. Since the tip of the injector is seeing vacuum (and the vacuum is changing with the engine operating conditions) the fuel pressure regulator is referenced to intake vacuum. Put a fuel pressure gauge on those systems and you will see the fuel pressure rise and fall with the changes in intake vacuum.

With the returnless systems the equation gets much more complicated since the fuel injector on time or pulse width is not the only variable affecting the amount of fuel delivered. For the same pulse width the injector will deliver more fuel at high vacuum than low vacuum due to the change in pressure drop with fixed fuel pressure. The ECM must not only calculate the amount of fuel to deliver but then make a secondary "adjustment" to the pulse width calculated to compensate for the fuel pressure drop across the injector at that instant. Anyone who thinks the ECM might be "slow" is barking up the wrong tree......

This all works fine....theoretically. The problem that surfaces, not so obviously sometimes, is that when one injector opens and closes it sends pressure waves thru the fuel rail. That is the water hammer effect mentioned in other posts. If the pressure spike in the rail happens to coincide with the opening or closing of another injector it was affect the fuel delivered without the ECM making any sort of compensation. This phenomenon is pretty difficult to pinpoint as the RPM and load it happens at and the cylinder(s) affected will change constantly. Most (all??) returnless systems that I have seen in the industry have a fuel pressure accumulator on the fuel rail to act as a damper to minimize or eliminate this water hammer effect. Especially 4 cylinder engines. Some V8's have a damper on each fuel rail to dampen the pulses from the 4 injectors on each side. Looking at the parts diagram for the 06/07 Yamaha I don't see a fuel pressure damper on the rail. Hmm..... Makes you wonder.......

 
Last edited by a moderator:
There is some kind of gizmo on the 06/07 fuel rail which is not on the earlier models.
It's located between injectors 3 & 4 on the forward side of the rail.

You can see it on the following parts image:

https://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/parts/home.aspx

Select: Motorcycle

Select: 2007

Select: FJR13AWFJR1300A

Select: Intake 2
As I recall, that gizmo has the appearance of what Jestal describes as a pressure accumulator in that it looks like there's a pancake metal housing that may incorporate a diaphragm to absorb some of the pressure peaks in the rail...it's function is a guess but why else would it be there attached to the rail but not connected to anything else?...BTW, this same general fuel injection system shows up in the SM for the Stratoliner I had...likely a product-wide system change for Yamaha.

Gary in Fairbanks

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Many think without the baro sensor, and possbily the fuel regulator, it's going to be a bandaid. JC
JC,

Someone has made an assumption that the missing regulator was a fuel regulator. That is NOT true. The regulator

that was removed when they went from GenI to GenII is the Vacuum regulator that used to sit on the right end of the Intake Air Pressure Tube above the throttle bodies. https://tinyurl.com/2pdhxh Item #19

I agree, they 'may' have to add some of the removed hardware to get the bike to perform properly in changing altitudes.

just clearin' things up. :)

Mick
Hi Mick...here's another opinion on that part...the part #19 is a fuel pressure/fuel return regulator that also senses intake manifold pressure...according to my GenI manual pages 1-3 and 1-8 it maintains a constant fuel pressure difference that is applied to the injectors 2.55 kg/cm2 higher than the intake manifold pressure, which it also senses, to do it's job...that way the fuel flows in the right direction into the intake manifolds and excess fuel above that set pressure difference is returned to the tank...it's gone on the GenII's which I believe now incorporate the regulator in the fuel pump assembly at the supply end in the tank.

Whether or not the current in-tank regulator contributes to poor injector operation I don't know...the Gen II manual says that it maintains fuel pressure at 3.24 kg/cm2, 46.1 psi, which I assume is a pre-determined value, and no longer depends upon sensing the intake manifold vacuum to maintain a constant differential...BTW, Jestal in another thread also raised the question of the potential effects of uneven/erratic fuel pressure within the GenII closed fuel rail feed system now used.

Gary in Fairbanks
You are correct Gary. I was mistaking that part as a modulator for the vacuum signal.

Mick

 
The regulator has a diaphragm inside the can that is spring loaded to set the fuel pressure that the regulator "pops off"....
Thank you for that great explanation man; appreciate it.

And good point on the damper/accumulator. My guess is if there's one at all, it probably isn't big enough.

Hope I'm done with the 'ignore' list. Most of the members here are awesome folks; thanks for your contributions. Wish everybody had a great weekend.

JC

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hope I'm done with the 'ignore' list. Most of the members here are awesome folks; thanks for your contributions. Wish everybody had a great weekend.

JC

No such luck. And yes I had a wonderfull weekend, Thankyou. :D

 
There is some kind of gizmo on the 06/07 fuel rail which is not on the earlier models.
It's located between injectors 3 & 4 on the forward side of the rail.

You can see it on the following parts image:

https://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/parts/home.aspx

Select: Motorcycle

Select: 2007

Select: FJR13AWFJR1300A

Select: Intake 2
As I recall, that gizmo has the appearance of what Jestal describes as a pressure accumulator in that it looks like there's a pancake metal housing that may incorporate a diaphragm to absorb some of the pressure peaks in the rail...it's function is a guess but why else would it be there attached to the rail but not connected to anything else?...BTW, this same general fuel injection system shows up in the SM for the Stratoliner I had...likely a product-wide system change for Yamaha.

Gary in Fairbanks


Yes, you guys are correct. I was in error. I was looking at that same parts diagram and did not spot that. It doesn't look like the accumulators or pulse dampers that I am familiar with but that seems to be exactly what it is. So, it certainly looks like Yamaha at least tried to account for stray pressure pulsations in the dead ended (return-less) fuel rail. No way of telling how effective it is though.

 
Top